All about Roman Catholicism here.

[mannyamador]

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mine is based on the bible, GOD'S ABSOLUTE WORD, yours is based on human interpretations of the bible...

Please give me even one verse where it explicitly states that the Bible is the SOLE source of Christian doctrine (the sole "rule of faith", in preotestasnt terms). YOU CAN'T because it is NOT in the Bible.

And don't bother with Timothy, it doesn;t say the Bible is the ONLY source of Christian doctrine. Neither does Revelation.

[Freeza]

Ain't it funny that the two guys who are rising up in arms to defend their faith have a "WARNED" stamp on their avatar... hehehehe, guess you "couldn't keep your faith in" eh? You just had to share your "kind words" with your brothers and sisters here eh... oh well, i won't post where i'm not welcome to... you have your Vatican, and i have my Bible... when the time comes and Jesus walks the earth again, i hope you won't be found lacking... peace brothers.... Â*


oh, and i'm hapilly married with 4 beautiful kids... i played around before, but that was until i got into a boatload of trouble, and a pastor was able to share Jesus' teachings with me... I'm not perfect, far from it, but i know who i am answerable to, and it ain't a man in fine robes... its a carpenter who walked our world 2000 years ago and who said "spread the word".... I just thought that being a part of the catholic church, most of you guys would have known about it's "COLORFUL" past and the fact that it doesn't abide by the Bible... I just wanted to "spread the word", but it seems your hearts are hardened... maybe one day, when you really seek Him, you will find Him.

Weed

Were not talking about your personal life here,and as for warned thing er its my first i got it while discussing with mosimos about the cpr issue basically it was err a GMA bash thing i was simply defending my pro government position but im cool with it so just stick around in politics maybe you will join the club hehehehe.. you are quoted saying "a lot of poverty and sickness is indirectly caused by the vatican... OVERPOPULATION is one, AIDS, due to the ban on condoms " so what do you expect our brains like a sponge and absorbs everything you just said , you got a due replay.....yes the church was harsh especially in the past centuries as all religion as well burning on the stakes are common for religious bigotry or blashphemy ,DAn brown probally had been purified of his blashphemy by grusome death , if he were born in the 8 ,9 10 centuries but things have been more cool now the church is well adapted for the twenty century things like earth as the center of the universe had been discarded in favor of more scientific explanation you can criticize the church without being curse to death of blasphemy but some things is still very conservative .....

[samokan]

mine is based on the bible, GOD'S ABSOLUTE WORD, yours is based on human interpretations of the bible...

Â* sorry for my reaction but ...

[bcasabee]

@weed.....I find your answer funny man...............it could had been easy if you will just point to me a Christian Church you believe which is much much better than the Catholic Church........are u ashamed to recommend your own Church which you belong now?

So what if the Church is rich and powerful......r ur pastors insecure?...Did Jesus told Peter that Peter is the rock......and that on this rock.....his church will be built and no power can topple this church? Isn't Jesus referring to the powerful Roman Catholic Church......no one.....even other christian churches combine can topple our powerful and mighty Roman Catholic Church............what a coincidence...................

Di ba in the Bible niingon pud dito........beware...in the end of times.....there will be false prophets appearing to give false informations to the people.........karon kinsa man kunoy mga false prophets nga nanggawas karong panahona nga ang Catholic Church may pinaka karaan nga Church...........reviewoha kuno nang inyong mga bag-ong churches diha kung dili ba kaha na mga false prophets diha nga nagpakaron ingnon lang...............

You see......my heart is not as hard as you think.......its just unfair that you attack our church because its is very rich......man.......I dare you to sell your house and donate the proceeds to the poor just as you criticized the Church of not selling its priceless and age old properties.........lets see how righteous you are.............

@bcasabee: sorry for not replying to your question bro... had to leave right away, and i had no connection the whole weekend... in reply to your question, you should first read the bible and search for a church that most resembles the bible teachings... a lot of christian churches do...Â* a king james or a new international version of the bible should be good as they follow the original with less additions from the catholic church....

[weedmeister]

The KJV is full of corruptions and additions from the translators revealing their personal interpretations. It also lacks the Deauterocanonical books wich the Aposltes themselves used and referred to. Catholic Bibles are complete. The KJV is not.

Have you even read them? why are there inconsistencies in your apocryphal books?

Nebuchadnezzar reigning in Ninevah rather than in Babylon (Judith 1.1)
Prayers for the dead (2 Maccabees 12.45-46, in conflict with Lk 16.25-26, Heb 9.27, 2 Sam 12.19)
Salvation by works (Tobit 12.9, in conflict with Rom 4.5, Gal 3.11, Gen 15.6)
God making His creation out of pre-existing matter, rather than creating the matter itself (Book of Wisdom 11.17, in conflict with John 1.1-3, Heb 11.3)
God assisting in the telling of lies (Judith 9.10, 13)


Info on Pope Paul I at this URL:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11577a.htm
How is it relevant to our discussion?

It is highly relevant, for a church that can kill its own pope is not God-centered at all.


Overpopulation is a myth.

Oh, it is a myth? really now... have you ever heard of squatters? where do you live, utopia?


Poverty is caused by greed. If we follow your logic, then we should jsut eliminate all people.

Poverty IS caused by greed! Greed on whose part? who has the gold, property, wealth, art, great food, the poor or the church? If you follow my logic, the church should give their assets to the poor, just as Jesus taught them... or are you gonna refute the fact that Jesus taught that too?


Those in purgatory ARE ALREADY SAVED, Purgatory is atonement. It is also taiught in the Bible.

What passages? The Bible never mentions anything even remotely similar to Purgatory! Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:. The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation. Jesus suffered for our sins so that we would not have to (2 Corinthians 5:21).


In case you haven't tried thinking about it, assets that cannot be sold aren't really worth much. If you talk about selling off the Vatrican buildings, that is like selling off the entire country (the Vatican is an independent state)! They can't do that because they will then have no place to go. So the idea itself is absurd.

So you mean the artworks and the land will have no buyers? hahahahah! you obviously aren't familiar with the art scene and real estate, my friend... So, what if they sell it? Again I go back to: "Sell that which you have, and give gifts to the needy. Make for yourselves purses which don't grow old, a treasure in the heavens that doesn't fail, where no thief approaches, neither moth destroys." You seem to not see that verse however much i post it... hahahahaha Â*:mrgreen:


If we folow your logic, then any so-called "born-again" christian who sins NEVER had faith!

I was talking about the murderer sir... If he says he has faith in God and the scriptures, then proceeds to stab you, that is a sure sign of a non-believer... Even kids know that sir... Â*:mrgreen:


You mean you equate good works with physical action?! Boy, your thinking is really screwed! Good works includes prayer, words, etc. You don't have to walk aropund to do good works. What IGNORANCE!

It is you who are ignorant, my dear sir, for you do not read your bible:

"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved," (Rom. 10:9).

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:2.

"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," (Rom. 4:5).

"For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith," (Rom. 4:13).

Your good works mean nothing, because you still follow the heathen. Canons and Papal Bulls have no basis in the Bible.


So are you saying that just because they are giving less than 10% of their assests to the needy that they are already following Jesus rule?
Jesus never said you have to give 10%. That is just your church's way of raking in the money.

Read before you post. What i said was the church gives less than 10% of its wealth to the needy. Then I asked if you think that was following Jesus teaching of "Sell that which you have, and give gifts to the needy. Make for yourselves purses which don't grow old, a treasure in the heavens that doesn't fail, where no thief approaches, neither moth destroys." obviously you don't think that this passage is correct as you seem to magically ignore it every time. Â*:mrgreen:


Please give me even one verse where it explicitly states that the Bible is the SOLE source of Christian doctrine (the sole "rule of faith", in preotestasnt terms). YOU CAN'T because it is NOT in the Bible.

Well, Manny, if you wont take it on the word of Timothy, let me ask you then:

1. Do you believe that Jesus is God?

2. Do you believe in His teachings?

3. Do you believe that the Bible contains his teachings?

If you answered YES to all three, then there you go...



here's something to ponder though:

Matthew 15:3-9 (King James Version)

But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


Teachings and Commandments of men? Sounds vaguely familiar, eh?



Hey, no comments on the late, great Pope Alexander VI? Awww, bummer that he was such a mascot for the church eh?

Oh, and don't forget your MANNY AMADOR THE GOD post on Wikipedia... would love to read that.... Â*:mrgreen:

[bcasabee]

@weed.....

In addition to that........had you ever considered reading about how the Bible was compiled? You will discover that it was the Catholic Church who first compiled the Bible and later, its contents where ripped of by other Christian denominations............man.......it is a very grave sin to ripped of some contents from the Bible you know especially if it is pre-meditated and its purpose is purely personal profit..........

[weedmeister]

@weed.....I find your answer funny man...............it could had been easy if you will just point to me a Christian Church you believe which is much much better than the Catholic Church........are u ashamed to recommend your own Church which you belong now?

oh no, not at all... i go to Greenhills Christian Fellowship... Â*:mrgreen: Â*http://www.gcf.org.ph/


So what if the Church is rich and powerful......r ur pastors insecure?...Did Jesus told Peter that Peter is the rock......and that on this rock.....his church will be built and no power can topple this church? Isn't Jesus referring to the powerful Roman Catholic Church......no one.....even other christian churches combine can topple our powerful and mighty Roman Catholic Church............what a coincidence...................

Oh no, rest assured I won't be banging on your church to try and topple it... Â*:mrgreen:


Di ba in the Bible niingon pud dito........beware...in the end of times.....there will be false prophets appearing to give false informations to the people.........karon kinsa man kunoy mga false prophets nga nanggawas karong panahona nga ang Catholic Church may pinaka karaan nga Church...........reviewoha kuno nang inyong mga bag-ong churches diha kung dili ba kaha na mga false prophets diha nga nagpakaron ingnon lang...............

Hehe, Bible based mi bai... we do not go against anything in the bible, so please ask the same about your own church. Â*:mrgreen:


You see......my heart is not as hard as you think.......its just unfair that you attack our church because its is very rich......man.......I dare you to sell your house and donate the proceeds to the poor just as you criticized the Church of not selling its priceless and age old properties.........lets see how righteous you are.............

I am sorry if i cannot oblige you...i don't really have that much to begin with bro... but if i had the VATICAN's riches, I would surely give 99% of it, as i would still have a whole lot to live on... heheheh Â*:mrgreen:

[mosimos]

Weed,

even apostle paul did not claim he is saved already.

1.)Â* "It is required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God."(1 Corinthians 4:2-5)

2.) 1 Corinthians 9:25-27, "Every athlete exercises self control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air, but I pommel my body and subdue it lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

3.) "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God" (James 4:6-7).

4.) "If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing...And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love" (1 Corinthians 13:2, 13).

[bcasabee]

Wow so this church is better than the Roman Catholic church? Kanus-a ra ni naman ni na register sa Securities and Exchange Commission? Pila man pud damage nato ani? 10% tite? Dili kaha ni church which Jesus refered to as the new false prophets who will appear on the end of times and give false informations to the people? Sus kung kamo nalang juy tinood no? Pila ray miyembro ninyo.....gamaya ra sa malangit no? Unsaon nalang ubang Christians sa Africa, China, India, America and other countries nga wala jud intawn kaila sa inyo chruch.....ma impyerno to sila?

@weed.....I find your answer funny man...............it could had been easy if you will just point to me a Christian Church you believe which is much much better than the Catholic Church........are u ashamed to recommend your own Church which you belong now?

oh no, not at all... i go to Greenhills Christian Fellowship... Â*:mrgreen: Â*http://www.gcf.org.ph/

Even if you try to banged directly with it..........you can't topple it cause Jesus already assured us that no power on earth can topple it..........but right now....you are tyring to banged it indirectly..........and see what happens........

So what if the Church is rich and powerful......r ur pastors insecure?...Did Jesus told Peter that Peter is the rock......and that on this rock.....his church will be built and no power can topple this church? Isn't Jesus referring to the powerful Roman Catholic Church......no one.....even other christian churches combine can topple our powerful and mighty Roman Catholic Church............what a coincidence...................

Oh no, rest assured I won't be banging on your church to try and topple it... Â*:mrgreen:

Bible based mo part? The Catholic church made the same many mistakes, one example is Galileo's discovery that the sun was the center and earth is revolving in it......poor Galileo during his time........and now ur doing the same mistake.......bai kung sa panultihon pa........ang Catholic Church pabalik na.......kamo padulong palang........As I said.........the Catholic Church is the oldest Christian church.....so kung sentido common lang gamiton.........ang mga false prophets kay kanang mga bag-o nga churches karon nga ning sulpot lang ug kalit............................di ba your church belongs to the bag-ong sulpot?

Di ba in the Bible niingon pud dito........beware...in the end of times.....there will be false prophets appearing to give false informations to the people.........karon kinsa man kunoy mga false prophets nga nanggawas karong panahona nga ang Catholic Church may pinaka karaan nga Church...........reviewoha kuno nang inyong mga bag-ong churches diha kung dili ba kaha na mga false prophets diha nga nagpakaron ingnon lang...............

Hehe, Bible based mi bai... we do not go against anything in the bible, so please ask the same about your own church. Â*:mrgreen:

Mao nay naka pait ana part.......sayon kaayo ug sulti ug instruct sa uban nga mao ni mao nay buhata.....pero kung imo na gani kaugalingon i compromise........mo talaw dayon....tsk tsk tsk.........if you had vatican's richness? unsa man intawon nang tubaga uy........mahulog naman na ug alibi........dili ko ka sacrifice kay wala koy richness like of the vatican's.......mao nay gi tudlo sa inyo church?.......unsaon pagka sacrifice ana kung ang imong buhat dili makasakit sa imong bulsa.........comfort zone lang ta ani perme?............wala ko ma impress......Dapat nimo ma realize part nga selling Vatican's priceless, historical and world heritage properties is just equivalent in scale of selling your own house and giving it to the poor............pero nganong dili man ka kabuhat ug baligya sa imo property? Dili ka kabuhat because your suggestion is ridiculous and impractical and you only use it to show that Vatican is the bad guy while your church is the good guy......well, false prophets always wear pretty faces and warmed, angelic and covincing words.........beware..........

You see......my heart is not as hard as you think.......its just unfair that you attack our church because its is very rich......man.......I dare you to sell your house and donate the proceeds to the poor just as you criticized the Church of not selling its priceless and age old properties.........lets see how righteous you are.............

I am sorry if i cannot oblige you...i don't really have that much to begin with bro... but if i had the VATICAN's riches, I would surely give 99% of it, as i would still have a whole lot to live on... heheheh Â*:mrgreen:

[mosimos]

Weed,

About timothy, please be enlightened. . .

2 Timothy 3:16: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Note that this passage nowhere says that Scripture is the sole rule of faith. It says that it is profitable, and that is true. But that doesn’t make it the sole rule of faith. It says that it can make you complete, and that is also true. However, in order for Scripture to make us complete, we must accept all that it teaches. And Scripture teaches that Christ established an authoritative church. That is why Paul tells Titus, who headed the church at Crete, to "Exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you" (Titus 2:15). Indeed an authoritative church is necessary in light of 2 Peter 1:20: "You must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation."

So Scripture makes us complete by showing us that we need it and that we need the Church to teach us what it means. Only a church whose teachings are authoritative and unchanging can qualify as "The Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).


The claim that we don't need teachers fails not only on the theological level, but in its practical application as well. If John believes that we don't need any teachers, why is he sending a letter that teaches? In fact why were any of the epistles written and preserved? Are they not the authoritative teachings of Church leaders? It is also interesting to note that most Bible only pastors attended seminary where they were [b]taught the Bible.[/b] On Sundays they give sermons in which they teach the Bible. They have Bible studies where again they teach the Bible. If we really don't need teachers why is all of this going on?