If we dont know how the universe exist, is it rational to resort to a god/religion ?

[The_Child]

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if we "do not know" then the question if it is "rational... " is out of the question. the topic is a contradiction.

[bluedes]

mao bitaw manginahanglan ta ug basis of right and wrong kay ang tawo mag iyahay ug sakto kay para sa iya sakto na pero dili diay...

Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

mao bitaw sa society na basehan..
if unhappy ka sa society na imo gipuy-an karon, mas-nindot na karon, kay pwde ka na makabalhin..

if you're christian, and want to have many wives, aww convert to muslim dayon..

or if you're unhappy with your current church group, aww, balhin dayon ug lain church group..

[Pein]

mao bitaw sa society na basehan..
if unhappy ka sa society na imo gipuy-an karon, mas-nindot na karon, kay pwde ka na makabalhin..

society ang basehan? kuyawa gud nimo ug basehan ug unsay sakto ug unsay sayop...unsa diay ang matudlo sa society? kung ang society lagi mismo ang sayop sunod gihapon ka?

if you're christian, and want to have many wives, aww convert to muslim dayon..

unya sa imong konsensya, sakto kaha nang daghan ug asawa? justice ba na para sa babaye nga ikaw daghan ka ug asawa?

i dont think so...

or if you're unhappy with your current church group, aww, balhin dayon ug lain church group..

aw balhin jud kung nakahibaw kang giilad raka sa imong church...

Mat 15:14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

[bluedes]

society ang basehan? kuyawa gud nimo ug basehan ug unsay sakto ug unsay sayop...unsa diay ang matudlo sa society? kung ang society lagi mismo ang sayop sunod gihapon ka?

unya sa imong konsensya, sakto kaha nang daghan ug asawa? justice ba na para sa babaye nga ikaw daghan ka ug asawa?

i dont think so...

you keep believing that morality is based on some holy book of scriptures.. those books are written by people only, which belong to society..

ang gisuwat sa usa ka holy book is sometimes different or even the opposite of what is written in another holy book.. so asa man ang right ug wrong ani ron?

the only explanation for that is different holy books are written by different people coming from different society.. therefore, society is the source of such morality..

on topic of having multiple wives, it again depends on the society.. and of course, on the women portion of the society.. if women portion of society allows this, then it will not be viewed as wrong.. ngano man tawn ma-allowed if dili jud gusto ang mga babae ana.. part of why its happening is women are not doing anything about it, or don't want to do anything about it.. (either oppressed sila or they really give consent, but i dont know about that anymore, its so relative jud...)

for societies na naa feminist movement, you will rarely see that.. but if you take also the opposite, what about woman having multiple husbands? do you think this will be viewed as wrong if you were in like the amazon women (i dont know if tinuod na sila)? they'd probably just think its normal to have multiple husbands kay women gud ang leader sa society.. i guess the "masculinist" movement will happen in that society tingale..

aw balhin jud kung nakahibaw kang giilad raka sa imong church...

Mat 15:14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

how can one judge na giilad ra ka sa imong church? that's a really mighty judgment to claim for one person against the entire church.. swerte lng siguro na pwede ka makabalhin ug church, pero saunang panahon, if you even try to get out, people will hunt you down and burn you at stake as heretic.. think about it.. heretic is not just for so called "unbelievers" but for anyone who goes against the "hive" mind of society.. hehehe..

[Pein]

you keep believing that morality is based on some holy book of scriptures.. those books are written by people only, which belong to society..

ngano man diayg na belong pud sila sa usa ka society? buot bang ipasabot nagdepende ra ang ilang gisuwat sa society nga na belong sila?

Mar 7:9 And He said to them, Do you do well to set aside the commandment of God, so that you may keep your own tradition?

wala man gani sila mu conform sa tradition sa society nga ilang na belong magdepende na hinuon sila...tsk tsk tsk!

ang gisuwat sa usa ka holy book is sometimes different or even the opposite of what is written in another holy book.. so asa man ang right ug wrong ani ron?

tagai daw ko ug example sa giingon nimong opposite kay basin wala lang ka nakasabot maong nakaingon ka nga opposite...

the only explanation for that is different holy books are written by different people coming from different society.. therefore, society is the source of such morality..

wala man sila sa lain nga society mao raman gihapon sakop raman sa Israel...giunsa gud intawn pagka source of morality ang society nga naa may society nga walay morality...morality gihapon ang tawag nimo ana bisan immoral na ang gibuhat sa usa ka society?

on topic of having multiple wives, it again depends on the society.. and of course, on the women portion of the society.. if women portion of society allows this, then it will not be viewed as wrong.. ngano man tawn ma-allowed if dili jud gusto ang mga babae ana.. part of why its happening is women are not doing anything about it, or don't want to do anything about it.. (either oppressed sila or they really give consent, but i dont know about that anymore, its so relative jud...)

immoral na nga society nga nag allow ug multiple wives. who in the right mind gud intawn ang musugot nga ikaw usa ka babaye ang imong bana daghan ug kasawsaw. ako ma feel man nako ba nga deep inside atong mga bayhana dili sila musugot ana pero ila nalang gipasagdan kay mao man lagi ang balaod nga ilang gisunod pero sayop mana ba para sa ila. usa sa closest friend nako muslim man jud ang iyang papa nangasawa ug laing babaye pirti man ganing hilaka sa inahan sa akong amigo. so buot lang ipasabot immoral na nga society...

for societies na naa feminist movement, you will rarely see that.. but if you take also the opposite, what about woman having multiple husbands? do you think this will be viewed as wrong if you were in like the amazon women (i dont know if tinuod na sila)? they'd probably just think its normal to have multiple husbands kay women gud ang leader sa society.. i guess the "masculinist" movement will happen in that society tingale..

mao ra gihapon na bisan pag ibali bali nimo immoral gihapon na...so dili lagi society ang source of morality kay pwede man ang society mismo ang immoral. sunod gihapon ka bisan immoral na ang society nga imong napuy an?

tsk tsk tsk!

how can one judge na giilad ra ka sa imong church? that's a really mighty judgment to claim for one person against the entire church.. swerte lng siguro na pwede ka makabalhin ug church, pero saunang panahon, if you even try to get out, people will hunt you down and burn you at stake as heretic.. think about it.. heretic is not just for so called "unbelievers" but for anyone who goes against the "hive" mind of society.. hehehe..

kay nagtuo diay kag tinuod tanang church? kung tinuod pa tanan nganong nagkabuwag buwag man? ayaw ko ingna sakto sila tanan pero wala magkasinabot kay nagbuwag buwag...

dili mana accusations tinuod mana...naa juy mangingilad nga church just like sa Church nga akong giapilan. maong nihawa ko kay gipangwartahan ra ang mga members nagtudlo ug pagtulun an nga dili na unta angay sundon pero ilang gitudlo kay sayop makapangwarta...

[regnauld]

ngano man diayg na belong pud sila sa usa ka society? buot bang ipasabot nagdepende ra ang ilang gisuwat sa society nga na belong sila?

Mar 7:9 And He said to them, Do you do well to set aside the commandment of God, so that you may keep your own tradition?

wala man gani sila mu conform sa tradition sa society nga ilang na belong magdepende na hinuon sila...tsk tsk tsk!




tagai daw ko ug example sa giingon nimong opposite kay basin wala lang ka nakasabot maong nakaingon ka nga opposite...



wala man sila sa lain nga society mao raman gihapon sakop raman sa Israel...giunsa gud intawn pagka source of morality ang society nga naa may society nga walay morality...morality gihapon ang tawag nimo ana bisan immoral na ang gibuhat sa usa ka society?




immoral na nga society nga nag allow ug multiple wives. who in the right mind gud intawn ang musugot nga ikaw usa ka babaye ang imong bana daghan ug kasawsaw. ako ma feel man nako ba nga deep inside atong mga bayhana dili sila musugot ana pero ila nalang gipasagdan kay mao man lagi ang balaod nga ilang gisunod pero sayop mana ba para sa ila. usa sa closest friend nako muslim man jud ang iyang papa nangasawa ug laing babaye pirti man ganing hilaka sa inahan sa akong amigo. so buot lang ipasabot immoral na nga society...



mao ra gihapon na bisan pag ibali bali nimo immoral gihapon na...so dili lagi society ang source of morality kay pwede man ang society mismo ang immoral. sunod gihapon ka bisan immoral na ang society nga imong napuy an?

tsk tsk tsk!



kay nagtuo diay kag tinuod tanang church? kung tinuod pa tanan nganong nagkabuwag buwag man? ayaw ko ingna sakto sila tanan pero wala magkasinabot kay nagbuwag buwag...

dili mana accusations tinuod mana...naa juy mangingilad nga church just like sa Church nga akong giapilan. maong nihawa ko kay gipangwartahan ra ang mga members nagtudlo ug pagtulun an nga dili na unta angay sundon pero ilang gitudlo kay sayop makapangwarta...

Ingyoha diay simbahan dili diay mangilad? wala juy kurakot? 100 percent jud mo honest?

[bluedes]

ngano man diayg na belong pud sila sa usa ka society? buot bang ipasabot nagdepende ra ang ilang gisuwat sa society nga na belong sila?

Mar 7:9 And He said to them, Do you do well to set aside the commandment of God, so that you may keep your own tradition?

wala man gani sila mu conform sa tradition sa society nga ilang na belong magdepende na hinuon sila...tsk tsk tsk!

pein, pein.. ur using the Bible to prove the Bible.. anyway..

tagai daw ko ug example sa giingon nimong opposite kay basin wala lang ka nakasabot maong nakaingon ka nga opposite...

naghatag na bitaw ko nimo example atong multiple wives sa muslim.. or kana mubalhin ka ug lain church.. the term "society" is not limited to just a region or state, it is generic term for a "circle" of people who have some form of connection.. there is society within a family, within school, within workplace, within city, etc etc.

wala man sila sa lain nga society mao raman gihapon sakop raman sa Israel...giunsa gud intawn pagka source of morality ang society nga naa may society nga walay morality...morality gihapon ang tawag nimo ana bisan immoral na ang gibuhat sa usa ka society?

different ilang moral system.. one society will of course judge the other as immoral, pero if you look at it from the outside, parehas ra sila ga-judge each other as immoral in some way..

immoral na nga society nga nag allow ug multiple wives. who in the right mind gud intawn ang musugot nga ikaw usa ka babaye ang imong bana daghan ug kasawsaw. ako ma feel man nako ba nga deep inside atong mga bayhana dili sila musugot ana pero ila nalang gipasagdan kay mao man lagi ang balaod nga ilang gisunod pero sayop mana ba para sa ila. usa sa closest friend nako muslim man jud ang iyang papa nangasawa ug laing babaye pirti man ganing hilaka sa inahan sa akong amigo. so buot lang ipasabot immoral na nga society...

that's your judgment.. because u belong to a society who has that kind of sentiments.. pero adto ug society na allowed na, ikaw ra isa nagreklamo, sila tanan walay ika-eek jud ana..

again, its relative... the definition of morality in this case is learned in the conscious level.. murag layu2x jud ni mapad2x atong discussion..

mao ra gihapon na bisan pag ibali bali nimo immoral gihapon na...so dili lagi society ang source of morality kay pwede man ang society mismo ang immoral. sunod gihapon ka bisan immoral na ang society nga imong napuy an?

tsk tsk tsk!

kay nagtuo diay kag tinuod tanang church? kung tinuod pa tanan nganong nagkabuwag buwag man? ayaw ko ingna sakto sila tanan pero wala magkasinabot kay nagbuwag buwag...

dili mana accusations tinuod mana...naa juy mangingilad nga church just like sa Church nga akong giapilan. maong nihawa ko kay gipangwartahan ra ang mga members nagtudlo ug pagtulun an nga dili na unta angay sundon pero ilang gitudlo kay sayop makapangwarta...

mao na diha.. ikaw may ni-apil ana na church.. maybe you should have known first what they were doing before you entered.. kung sa ingnon pa, "nanu ni-enter".. unya mugawas ra diay..

pero ikaw, if feel nimo gi-ilad ka, aww gawas.. ang uban dha, gusto magpa-ilad gud.. pero again, relatively speaking ra jud ni..

[Pein]

Ingyoha diay simbahan dili diay mangilad? wala juy kurakot? 100 percent jud mo honest?

naay gihapoy kurakot...kay dili man tanang naa sa sulod sa church tinuod nga igsuon...

Jud 1:12 These men are unseen rocks at your love-feasts, when they take part in them with you, keepers of sheep who without fear take the food of the sheep; clouds without water rushing before the wind, wasted trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots,

next...

[regnauld]

naay gihapoy kurakot...kay dili man tanang naa sa sulod sa church tinuod nga igsuon...

Jud 1:12 These men are unseen rocks at your love-feasts, when they take part in them with you, keepers of sheep who without fear take the food of the sheep; clouds without water rushing before the wind, wasted trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots,

next...

hahahaha....see? so kinsa may tinood nga igsoon pareha nimo nga 100 percent honest?

[Pein]

pein, pein.. ur using the Bible to prove the Bible.. anyway..

ang ang algebra akong gamiton to prove the bible...

naghatag na bitaw ko nimo example atong multiple wives sa muslim.. or kana mubalhin ka ug lain church.. the term "society" is not limited to just a region or state, it is generic term for a "circle" of people who have some form of connection.. there is society within a family, within school, within workplace, within city, etc etc.

mao lagi dili source of morality ang society kay naay society nga mao mismo ang source of immorality. dili angay himuong basehan ang society para mahibaw an nato kung unsay sakto ug sayop.

different ilang moral system.. one society will of course judge the other as immoral, pero if you look at it from the outside, parehas ra sila ga-judge each other as immoral in some way..

moral lagi na para sa ila pero kung mag base ka sa morality nga nahibaw an nimo, sayop jud. bisan gani mismo ang mga tawo nga nagpuyo ana nga society dili mu conform ana kay immoral na para sa ila.

that's your judgment.. because u belong to a society who has that kind of sentiments.. pero adto ug society na allowed na, ikaw ra isa nagreklamo, sila tanan walay ika-eek jud ana..

again, its relative... the definition of morality in this case is learned in the conscious level.. murag layu2x jud ni mapad2x atong discussion..

wala silay eeek kay moral mana para sa ila pero kung buot hunahunaon, immoral na. unya sunod gihapon ka bisan immoral ang society? kung kintahay ikaw mupuyo ka sa Middle East, magpakadaghan pud kag asawa kay ni conform man kaha ka sa society?

tsk tsk tsk!

mao na diha.. ikaw may ni-apil ana na church.. maybe you should have known first what they were doing before you entered.. kung sa ingnon pa, "nanu ni-enter".. unya mugawas ra diay..

dili na sala nako, bata pako wala pakoy kalibutan naapil nako ato nga church...

pero ikaw, if feel nimo gi-ilad ka, aww gawas.. ang uban dha, gusto magpa-ilad gud.. pero again, relatively speaking ra jud ni..

mao bitaw dili jud pwedeng ibase kung unsay sakto ug sayop sa usa ka society kay naay society nga sila mismo ang source of immorality...