If we dont know how the universe exist, is it rational to resort to a god/religion ?

[Ger]

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mao bitaw trabaho ko kay kulang atong pagsalig sa ginoo..

ngano ang uban ra man imo isalig sa ginoo, ngano di man tanan na lng imong isalig kaniya?

di ko mawagtangag trabaho kung mutoman ko sa bibliya... asa mn dapita dha way pagsalig?

[Ger]

yeah.. but i did not learn them from some book or 10 commandments.. i learned them from experience or other people telling me why they're important rules to follow..

you think naman gud that morality comes from the Bible or from God.. morality is not originating there.. it originates within society.. morality is relatively speaking.. its different from one society to another..

in a society of robbers and liars, you think stealing or telling lies is bad for them? magsakit na lng imong ulo cge pamugos ug usab sa ilang huna2x, or sige pagcondemn nila.. pero para nila, walay sayop ana, kay mao man na ilang society gud..

on another example, try telling a samurai that killing is bad.. dili ka ka-usab sa iyang morality, kay lahi iyang morality sa imoha.. it does not mean kay abi ni-kill ang samurai kay wala na sya morals.. unfair na inyong judgment na Bible or God gakupot sa morality.. di na tinuod. inyo ra na huna2x para makablackmail mu ug more followers for recruitment sa inyong "church"

so morality does not come from God or some Bible as you might have imagined..

thats why samurais no longer exist...

[miyay]

If we dont know how the universe exist, is it rational to resort to a god/religion?

is man inherently rational in the first place? coz man have been having gods and religions for thousands of years....

[Traditz]

we do not claim atheism is in fact, true.

So you're saying atheism is false?

there is no such thing as true or false in atheism because it is merely the absence of belief.

If atheism is neither true nor false, what else can it be?

we can make such strong claims of unbelief on things (such as God) based on evidence, whereas faith, is a belief with the absence of evidence. therefore to us, it is irrational.

But wouldn't that make atheism irrational then? If you have no evidence that atheism is true and still hold that view, isn't that blind faith?

scientific evidence such as Evolution. Evolution proves that ID is a myth by presenting evidence that the earth is not young (in fact billions of years old) as what Genesis suggest. i can present more evidence, but that would deserve another thread to discuss.

Aren't you referring to young earth creationism rather than ID? Anyway, yeah, this topic belongs to another thread.

[Traditz]

it is not our responsibility to disprove God; it is the faithful's responsibility to prove him. they are the ones who worship him, so they have to prove that who/what they are worshipping is indeed true. we can continue calling them delusional until they prove us otherwise.

a delusion is defined as:

a fixed false belief and is used in everyday language to describe a belief that is either false, fanciful or derived from deception.

so i don't why they get offended when the word deluded fits them perfectly.

Sir, don't you think the atheist share that burden of proof too, that there's no such thing as a God that exists?

[Traditz]

yeah.. between societies and individuals, relative ra jud ang morality..

for some people to claim na absolute ang morality, wala na na sila ni-care or concerned sa other person, they are just concerned about their own welfare.. which is very selfish na..

for example, generally, i am against abortion, but not in an absolute case.. before i advice against abortion, i have to listen to the circumstances and the situation unique to the individual, kay di man ta kahibalo sa truth if we just see everything at the surface as the same without looking deeper.

You mean sir nga usahay naa'y mga gray areas ang morality, like for example naka-threaten sa mother ang iya baby so that duha lang imo choice, either to abort the baby and save the mother, or save the baby and endanger the mother's life?

Pero does that mean though nga all morality is relative?

as for stealing and killing, these are generally frowned upon by society, but that's because time and time again has shown that in most cases, stealing and killing is not good.. but not all cases, because sometimes, relative man pud ang term na stealing.. for you, in may look like stealing, but to another, he is just doing what he thought was necessary at that time..

and these rules did not come from God or the Bible.. try talking to non-christian group like japanese or chinese, do you think they learned that stealing is not generally good from the Bible? that's why morality is born out of society, and not some absolute entity or some holy book.. part na sa evolution sa society that they will have moral legislation to keep the society in order..

I see sir. So you mean nga ang morality mura lang siya og product sa evolution para maka-adapt og maka-survive ang human specie?

[chad_tukes]

So you're saying atheism is false?

no, i am not claiming that atheism is false, as much as i don't claim atheism to be true either. i am an atheist simply because i do not believe in any deity.

But wouldn't that make atheism irrational then? If you have no evidence that atheism is true and still hold that view, isn't that blind faith?

we do not claim to know the absolute truth like Christians do when they claim to worship the one and only "true" GOD. that is a quick, dangerous concept to assume there is God---and that you are willing to devote much of your life to stand by your belief. isn't it such a waste of TIME and RESOURCES?

If atheism is neither true nor false, what else can it be?

why do you brand atheism as either true or false? atheism is unbelief. there is no such thing as true or false. i have this question for you---can you give me a reason WHY i should believe there is a GOD? don't give me answers like: "because everybody does!"

Aren't you referring to young earth creationism rather than ID? Anyway, yeah, this topic belongs to another thread.

they go hand in hand. the coined term "intelligent design" is just a desperate way for young-earth creationists to make their ideals sound more "scientific". but really, there is no difference.

[ix-888]

" If we dont know how the universe exist, is it rational to resort to a god/religion ? "

"GOD" can exist without the universe and more so, without religion .

[cyril-crusade]

Actually since there are no established truth as to how the universe began all assumptions are just as valid. But some are more believable than the others and it depends as to which side you are leaning.

[Pein]

" If we dont know how the universe exist, is it rational to resort to a god/religion ? "

"GOD" can exist without the universe and more so, without religion .

if God can exist without the universe, then why did He create it? para asa diay ang universe? ug para asa pud ang religion? kahibaw ka unsay meaning ana?