Naa ba'y problema ang Ginoo?

[tashoastaire]

---

ka grabi sad ninyo topic oi, asta ginoo sukdon man. mas maayo sukdon sa sanato ato kaugalingon kung kaila ba jud ta nato.. haha

5'3" rako bai.. hahahha

[bluedes]

sigh! its the same story like yours... and it doesnt mean anything... hmmm! if they dont understand... just make them understand.. if they dont want to understand, then IDIOT ang ka storya! aw ARROGANTE DIAY! simple raman dba? hm i wonder the final answer.

yaw ug kasuko kebz.. majority of chinese, japanese, koreans find christians to be funny and crazy..


invisible god.. telling them what to do.. ang problema sa ginoo tingale kay ngano buhat2x pa siya ug unsa angay buhaton sa tawo..

[Existanz]

It could be posible that god is dead...

There's nothing God can do if you choose to think He's dead...for whatever reason, you are the best judge for yourself.

On the possibility that God could be dead...in what way do we say He is 'living'? But if you claim it the way Nietzsche claimed that God is dead then there is truth in it...it's already happening- individually for people.

[Saint_hard]

di na pwede ma demonstrate ang grace sa heaven.. wa naman sala didto..

So this is one thing that God can't do

[Existanz]

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

ang gigamit nga word sa Hebrew aning "grieved" is:


?a^tsab
aw-tsab'
A primitive root; properly to carve, that is, fabricate or fashion; hence (in a bad sense) to worry, pain or anger: - displease, grieve, hurt, make, be sorry, vex, worship, wrest.

bisan man sigurog Almighty ang Ginoo it doesn't mean man siguro nga dili na siya mamroblema kay God is Love man kaha. kung "gugma" ang Ginoo, natural lang siguro nga mamroblema siya sa mga tawo nga iyang gibuhat nga nahimong dautan. kani common man jud kaayo ni nga verse esp. sa born again.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

kung i analyse nimo na nga verse, grabe na jud kaayo ang problema sa Ginoo oi asa ka mangita asta ang iyang bugtong nga anak iyang gisakripisyo para lang sa mga tawo nga dautan nga pwede man untang iya nalang pang tudason ning mga demonyoha without sacrificing his begotten son. pero "gugma" man gud ang Ginoo, ug part man siguro na sa gugma nang mamroblema. kay kung wala pa mamroblema ang Ginoo, sus bahala ka sa buhay mo oi wala may mawala niya bisan pag dautan ka.

and one more thing, unsay nasabtan nimo sa word nga "longsuffering"? kay mao raba na ang Ginoo longsuffering siya...

Dili na consistent ang atong rason ron kung we agree na omnipotent siya yet we entertain the thought that He's having a problem. All-knowing man kaya siya then it could be that He already know what will happen from beginning to end unsaon man niya pag-kaproblema pa, at the instance of a problem He already have the surest answer. If we go by our concept of what God is it seems the world is already a done deal for Him.

Regarding sa verse, do you think when God decided to send His Son nag-contemplate pa siya bahin niiini?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Asa man dapit diha nga buot pasabot nga namoblema kaayo ang Ginoo? Perhaps it could be that God even before the world begun He already foresaw everything and the eventuality of sacrificing His Son ultimately...this makes sense to what the Bible said how God did loved the world long before it even exists knowing beforehand it will not return that love. Yet here we are...

God can afford to be 'long suffering' because He knows already everything and had appropriated them in due time- that is for us people. It only means one thing there is yet hope for man in the end.

Consider the fallen angels, it seems God did not grant them that luxury (or patience?) because we already know why Hell exists in the first place. Obviously there's nothing more God can do for an absolute rejection of Him from a perfect being- an angel.

Now para sa mga tao nga di mutuo ug Ginoo, imagined God giving them a glimpse of Hell for say...a minute or perhaps a quick dip in The Pit to 'burn' away their doubts for one last time. Of course the current christian interpretation about hell from the Bible would deemed that baseless. But then again, let us not forget the lessons from the Jewish Pharisees and their over-zealous aversion about God's law; maybe we are about to commit the same mistakes again...only this time we might let our interpretation of the Bible speaks itself for God and forgot that God has Will of His own apart from the Bible.

So you see, if I was God this evil people is no sweat for me. All I would do is 'secretly' abduct individually these folks and give them a quick tour of Hell and a taste of hellfire for a minute or two (an audience with the Devil would serve as bonus hehehe)...easy..but I'm not God so I really don't know why He wouldn't take my idea for a change...I think He has something better and far simpler (as expected of Him).

Again God could never have a problem...sa akong lantaw lang sad.

[Pein]

Dili na consistent ang atong rason ron kung we agree na omnipotent siya yet we entertain the thought that He's having a problem. All-knowing man kaya siya then it could be that He already know what will happen from beginning to end unsaon man niya pag-kaproblema pa, at the instance of a problem He already have the surest answer. If we go by our concept of what God is it seems the world is already a done deal for Him.

Regarding sa verse, do you think when God decided to send His Son nag-contemplate pa siya bahin niiini?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Asa man dapit diha nga buot pasabot nga namoblema kaayo ang Ginoo? Perhaps it could be that God even before the world begun He already foresaw everything and the eventuality of sacrificing His Son ultimately...this makes sense to what the Bible said how God did loved the world long before it even exists knowing beforehand it will not return that love. Yet here we are...

God can afford to be 'long suffering' because He knows already everything and had appropriated them in due time- that is for us people. It only means one thing there is yet hope for man in the end.

Consider the fallen angels, it seems God did not grant them that luxury (or patience?) because we already know why Hell exists in the first place. Obviously there's nothing more God can do for an absolute rejection of Him from a perfect being- an angel.

Now para sa mga tao nga di mutuo ug Ginoo, imagined God giving them a glimpse of Hell for say...a minute or perhaps a quick dip in The Pit to 'burn' away their doubts for one last time. Of course the current christian interpretation about hell from the Bible would deemed that baseless. But then again, let us not forget the lessons from the Jewish Pharisees and their over-zealous aversion about God's law; maybe we are about to commit the same mistakes again...only this time we might let our interpretation of the Bible speaks itself for God and forgot that God has Will of His own apart from the Bible.

So you see, if I was God this evil people is no sweat for me. All I would do is 'secretly' abduct individually these folks and give them a quick tour of Hell and a taste of hellfire for a minute or two (an audience with the Devil would serve as bonus hehehe)...easy..but I'm not God so I really don't know why He wouldn't take my idea for a change...I think He has something better and far simpler (as expected of Him).

Again God could never have a problem...sa akong lantaw lang sad.

All-knowing? dili ko muagree nimo ani bro...i don't believe God knows everything ug ang usa sa wala niya mahibaw i is ang imong decision. diay verse.

Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

ang gigamit nga word sa Hebrew aning "heart" is:

H3820
לב
lêb
labe
A form of H3824; the heart; also used (figuratively) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything: - + care for, comfortably, consent, X considered, courag [-eous], friend [-ly], ([broken-], [hard-], [merry-], [stiff-], [stout-], double) heart ([-ed]), X heed, X I, kindly, midst, mind (-ed), X regard ([-ed)], X themselves, X unawares, understanding, X well, willingly, wisdom.

pwedeng ang "heart" ana nga verse pwedeng "mind" na siya. maong ang gigamit sa word sa bisaya dili "kasingkasing" kundi "hunahuna"

Jer 7:31 Ug ilang gitukod ang hatag-as nga mga dapit sa Topet nga atua sa walog sa anak nga lalake ni Hinom, aron sa pagsunog diha sa kalayo sa ilang mga anak nga lalake ug sa ilang mga anak nga babaye; nga wala nako isugo kanila, ni misantop kana sa akong hunahuna.

mao pud sa tagalog.

Jer 7:31 At kanilang itinayo ang mga mataas na dako ng Topheth, na nasa libis ng anak ni Hinnom, upang sunugin ang kanilang mga anak na lalake at babae sa apoy; na hindi ko iniuutos, o pumasok man sa aking pagiisip.

kung all-knowing pa ang Ginoo, nganong wala man kahibaw ang Ginoo nga mabuhat na nilang ilang sunugon ang ilang anak ug ihalad sa ilang ginooginoo?

dia pay laing verse:

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

kung atong sugdan ang pagbasa sa chapter 1, mao na ang time nga gitestingan sa Ginoo si Abraham.

Gen 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

kung nakahibaw pa ang Ginoo sa decision ni Abraham, nganong testingan paman niya? ug kanus a ba nahibaw an sa Ginoo ang ang decision ni Abraham? diba kadtong iya na untang patyon si Isaac? basaha ang verse 12.

maong dili ko mutuo nga nakahibaw ang Ginoo ang tanan. kay kung nakahibaw pa siyang mag rebelde diay si satanas, nganong iya pamang gibuhat si satanas? ug kung nakahibaw man gani ang Ginoo nga maimpyerno raman diay ang tawo, nganong iya pamang gibuhat ang tawo maimpyerno raman diay? diba nonesense nakahibaw naman diay siyang daan pero iya ra gihapong gibuhat...

[Existanz]

All-knowing? dili ko muagree nimo ani bro...i don't believe God knows everything ug ang usa sa wala niya mahibaw i is ang imong decision. diay verse.

Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

ang gigamit nga word sa Hebrew aning "heart" is:

H3820
לב
lêb
labe
A form of H3824; the heart; also used (figuratively) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything: - + care for, comfortably, consent, X considered, courag [-eous], friend [-ly], ([broken-], [hard-], [merry-], [stiff-], [stout-], double) heart ([-ed]), X heed, X I, kindly, midst, mind (-ed), X regard ([-ed)], X themselves, X unawares, understanding, X well, willingly, wisdom.

pwedeng ang "heart" ana nga verse pwedeng "mind" na siya. maong ang gigamit sa word sa bisaya dili "kasingkasing" kundi "hunahuna"

Jer 7:31 Ug ilang gitukod ang hatag-as nga mga dapit sa Topet nga atua sa walog sa anak nga lalake ni Hinom, aron sa pagsunog diha sa kalayo sa ilang mga anak nga lalake ug sa ilang mga anak nga babaye; nga wala nako isugo kanila, ni misantop kana sa akong hunahuna.

mao pud sa tagalog.

Jer 7:31 At kanilang itinayo ang mga mataas na dako ng Topheth, na nasa libis ng anak ni Hinnom, upang sunugin ang kanilang mga anak na lalake at babae sa apoy; na hindi ko iniuutos, o pumasok man sa aking pagiisip.

kung all-knowing pa ang Ginoo, nganong wala man kahibaw ang Ginoo sa ilang buhaton?

dia pay laing verse:

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

kung atong sugdan ang pagbasa sa chapter 1, mao na ang time nga gitestingan sa Ginoo si Abraham.

Gen 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

kung nakahibaw pa ang Ginoo sa decision ni Abraham, nganong testingan paman niya? ug kanus a ba nahibaw an sa Ginoo ang ang decision ni Abraham? diba kadtong iya na untang patyon si Isaac? basaha ang verse 22.

maong dili ko mutuo nga nakahibaw ang Ginoo ang tanan. kay kung nakahibaw pa siyang mag rebelde diay si satanas, nganong iya pamang gibuhat si satanas? ug kung nakahibaw man gani ang Ginoo nga maimpyerno raman diay ang tawo, nganong iya pamang gibuhat ang tawo maimpyerno raman diay? diba nonesense nakahibaw naman diay siyang daan pero iya ra gihapong gibuhat...

Naa point ang imong contention Pein...pero sa akoa ang verse,

Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

"...neither came into my heart" may also imply that those people who were burning their sons and daughters as sacrifice thought 'it's God's will' to do so even though God never commands them to do it. Same also at times when we attempt to connect meaningless misfortunes of people as 'it's God will' even though God didn't step forward to admit it. Now imagined people blowing themselves up because 'it's God's will'...walay kalainan.

Regarding sa 'supposed' tempting kay Abraham, it sure look like God don't have a clue as to what decision Abraham might decided- literally from those verse. But as I see it, it seems God do all this 'supposed' testing on us people not necessarily He doesn't know about it...more like He is testing us for our own sakes. In this case, it seems God already knows what Abraham would choose but the question is does Abraham also really know the deep of his trust on God prior to His decisions to obey the Lord's crazy command? No Abraham hadn't, until that very moment He threw rationality into the wind, believe and said "Yes, my Lord I will do as you command me", that's the only time I think that Abraham did really know how far He will go with God. It's the Either/Or situation in existentialism...a decision that makes or breaks a character of a person.

Kalimot na ko's verse, but I think it was Paul who mention it...regarding God's testing of people and the people's ability to overcome them. Matud pa di daw mag-testing ang Ginoo more than we can able to bear, so this may also mean that God have prior knowledge of those of whom He is about to put to test.

I believe God's testing of people is a way of making people realize what kind of stuff they are made of. It's not that God does not know how far we believe in Him but it's us who have no idea what kind of faith we have until that crucial moment in our life when we are at the brink. Until then, nobody can boast of having measured their faith...only God can measured it for you to realized it.

By the way, regarding kay Satanas and his minions...could it be that for God they are simply part of the bigger picture of the creation and plan of man that we can't even begin to imagine? In a way pwedi ba ta kaorder ug Bar-B-Q unya i-request nato nga dili idang-dang sa baga sa uling kung di i-fry lang sa mantika?
Or mag-prito nga di gamit ang mantika? hehehe...naunsa man ning akong analogy!

What if the best world for man to begin his ascend to God is a world where the likes of Satan is allowed to exists? and so are gravity, earthquake, wars, death and evil people etc...what if lang na nuon.

[Pein]

Naa point ang imong contention Pein...pero sa akoa ang verse,

Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

"...neither came into my heart" may also imply that those people who were burning their sons and daughters as sacrifice thought 'it's God's will' to do so even though God never commands them to do it. Same also at times when we attempt to connect meaningless misfortunes of people as 'it's God will' even though God didn't step forward to admit it. Now imagined people blowing themselves up because 'it's God's will'...walay kalainan.

klaro man kaayo ang verse bro. wala musantop sa hunahuna sa Ginoo nga mabuhat to nila ang ilang gibuhat. kung all-knowing pa ang Ginoo, nganong wala mana muabot sa iyang hunahuna nga mabuhat to nila?

Regarding sa 'supposed' tempting kay Abraham, it sure look like God don't have a clue as to what decision Abraham might decided- literally from those verse. But as I see it, it seems God do all this 'supposed' testing on us people not necessarily He doesn't know about it...more like He is testing us for our own sakes. In this case, it seems God already knows what Abraham would choose but the question is does Abraham also really know the deep of his trust on God prior to His decisions to obey the Lord's crazy command? No Abraham hadn't, until that very moment He threw rationality into the wind, believe and said "Yes, my Lord I will do as you command me", that's the only time I think that Abraham did really know how far He will go with God. It's the Either/Or situation in existentialism...a decision that makes or breaks a character of a person.

balikon nako ang verse bro ha....

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

klaro baya kaayo ang verse bro nga at that time ra nahibaw an sa Ginoo kung unsa kamahadlukon si Abraham niya. kung all-knowing pa ang Ginoo, nganong iya paman jung gitestingan si Abraham? no need na siguro nang test kung nakahibaw naka sa result oi...

Kalimot na ko's verse, but I think it was Paul who mention it...regarding God's testing of people and the people's ability to overcome them. Matud pa di daw mag-testing ang Ginoo more than we can able to bear, so this may also mean that God have prior knowledge of those of whom He is about to put to test.

kani siguro nga verse ang imong giingon bro...

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

i explain daw diha kung unsa ang imong gi mean ana nga verse bro...

I believe God's testing of people is a way of making people realize what kind of stuff they are made of. It's not that God does not know how far we believe in Him but it's us who have no idea what kind of faith we have until that crucial moment in our life when we are at the brink. Until then, nobody can boast of having measured their faith...only God can measured it for you to realized it.

so you mean nakahibaw nang daan ang Ginoo nga daghang mga tawo nga maimpyerno? kung nakahibaw na siyang daan ana, nganong iya pamang gibuhat ang tawo? ug kung nakahibaw ang Ginoo nga murebelde si Lucifer, nganong iya pamang gibuhat si Lucifer nga nakahibaw naman diay siya nga daghan ang madaot tungod ni Lucifer? diba nonesense?

[Existanz]

Pein ugma na sad ko reply...time to hit the sack no ko diri.

It was fun discussing about it...God bless!

[Existanz]

klaro man kaayo ang verse bro. wala musantop sa hunahuna sa Ginoo nga mabuhat to nila ang ilang gibuhat. kung all-knowing pa ang Ginoo, nganong wala mana muabot sa iyang hunahuna nga mabuhat to nila?

balikon nako ang verse bro ha....

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

klaro baya kaayo ang verse bro nga at that time ra nahibaw an sa Ginoo kung unsa kamahadlukon si Abraham niya. kung all-knowing pa ang Ginoo, nganong iya paman jung gitestingan si Abraham? no need na siguro nang test kung nakahibaw naka sa result oi...

-Yes, the word 'now' is there in that verse but God's 'now' is different from a human perspective of what is now that's if we take God is eternal. God can't have a past and future otherwise it will imply that He is in time, this can't be since we believe He is eternal. The 'now' in the verse is not God's now but Abraham's.

kani siguro nga verse ang imong giingon bro...

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

i explain daw diha kung unsa ang imong gi mean ana nga verse bro...

-Right, mao ni nga verse diay toud..thanks. Lantawa ha, kabalo na daan ang Ginoo kung hantud asa taman ta niya testingan. I don't really take on easily a God that do a trial and error experiment on people. Wa naman siya'y kalainan ana sa tao in that manner. Even Jesus already now beforehand who will betray Him...mao gani naa mga prophecy ning mga propeta kay gi-reveal sa ila ning mga future vision gikan sa Ginoo di ba? It only goes to show that God have prior knowledge of events of the future. Naa kung di all knowing ang Ginoo unsaon na lang niya pag-kabalo nga nakasala ta diay maski mag-imagine lang ta nga atong gi-one night stand sa atong hunahuna ning sexy nato nga silingan hehehe...

so you mean nakahibaw nang daan ang Ginoo nga daghang mga tawo nga maimpyerno? kung nakahibaw na siyang daan ana, nganong iya pamang gibuhat ang tawo? ug kung nakahibaw ang Ginoo nga murebelde si Lucifer, nganong iya pamang gibuhat si Lucifer nga nakahibaw naman diay siya nga daghan ang madaot tungod ni Lucifer? diba nonesense?

-Kabalo na daan cyempre...pero didto's sa parable ni Jesus regarding sa Kingdom of God klaro man didto nga ginapili ang kung kinsa to'y naay pulos sa Ginoo ug ilabay to'ng wala. God wanted to create a kingdom of people where He can be with them do you think evil people can prevent Him from doing that? What is their importance to God that would have made God cease from doing what He pleases...kay nganu kining mga evil nga mga tao sila bay gahimo sa ilang sarili so that God will respect their choices? Did Christ bothered himself too much in convincing those who hated Him- those doubting Pharisses and Sadducces? It's because Jesus already knows there's nothing more He can do to change their minds at that time (but I insist that a quick dip in the Lake of Fire would surely jolt the hell out of them into believing )

What if Lucifer was meant to be like that- evil? Since, he exists then it could be that God already think of what he will become eventually and the role he will play in God's purpose in creating the world. Same also as to why Jesus included Judas in the first twelve knowing already he's the one to betray Him. Do you think the earth will be what it is now without earthquake and volcanic eruptions? But we still view this events as evil...simply because it makes us extremely uncomfortable. What if Lucifer and evil is what gravity and earthquake are to earth's crust? Also, Lucifer only do things by the Lord's bidding di ba? without God's nod he can't do anything anymore after he was pawned by Christ, so how can he be a problem when it seems he's just only doing what God's 'allowed' him to do? Now, it seems it's God who's giving us the problem and not the other way around...hehehe