RELIGION....(part 2)

[dacs]

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The Duplessis Orphans - source Wikipedia

The Duplessis Orphans (French: les Orphelins de Duplessis) refers to a scandal where several thousand orphaned children were falsely certified as mentally ill by the government of the province of Quebec, Canada and confined to psychiatric institutions. It is widely regarded as the largest case of institution-based child abuse in Canadian history.

Orphanages and schools were the financial responsibility of the provincial government but funding for mental institutions was also provided by the government of Canada. Beginning in the 1940s and continuing into the 1960s, Quebec Premier Maurice Duplessis in cooperation with the Roman Catholic Church who ran the orphanages, developed a scheme to obtain Federal funding for thousands of children, most of whom had been orphaned through their abandonment by an unwed mother. In some cases the Catholic orphanages were relabelled as health-care facilities and in other cases the children were shipped from orphanages to existing mental asylums. Years later, long after these institutions were closed, the adult children who had survived them began to speak out about the harsh treatment and sexual abuse they were forced to endure at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church priests, nuns, and administrators. Reminiscent of the abuses by the Catholic-run Magdalen Asylums, members of the Duplessis Orphans claim that they were used as slave labour and subjected to extreme physical abuse for misbehaviour.

Thanks again for this one.

It makes me realize that the forgiveness is an act - not just a word. Who is Duplessis again?

[Gwynhuever]

@dacs - read the article again...naa diha kinsa si Duplessis

you are welcome....ALL man ingon si bro mosimos...so i believe i-discuss sad ang scandals not just the achievements....kay matod pa nimo there are always two sides gud diba...?

[dacs]

@dacs - read the article again...naa diha kinsa si Duplessis

you are welcome....ALL man ingon si bro mosimos...so i believe i-discuss sad ang scandals not just the achievements....kay matod pa nimo there are always two sides gud diba...?

Correct!

Did you try to research on both sides of the issue?

[shoeless_rebel]

@dacs - read the article again...naa diha kinsa si Duplessis

you are welcome....ALL man ingon si bro mosimos...so i believe i-discuss sad ang scandals not just the achievements....kay matod pa nimo there are always two sides gud diba...?

Correct!

Did you try to research on both sides of the issue?

yeah... and the other side were all cover ups and denials as usual. lets just admit that some groups within your church is... mmmm... not so saintly as you thought. but it doesn't mean all of em... just some of em. certain orders, certain groups and individuals... the sad thing is the head of your church ang buhaton is to cover things up kay hadlok sila. para nila the image of holiness and infallibility is more important than the truth.

now who could trust a church like that?

lets bring up the galileo issue again... it took them hundred of years to acknowledge na na sayop sila... and if ever dili liberal gamay ang pope at the time m gonna bet my devils a$$ na dili gyud to nila angkonon na sayop.

how can you trust such hypocrites?

now again dili nako i-generalize but because ang church leaders mismo ang mu cover sa sayop sa ila kauban mura sila nag hatag ug rason and idea sa mga bad na elements within the church na untouchable sila.

[oliver_g0110]

hehe go go go shoeless! hehe

[dacs]

yeah... and the other side were all cover ups and denials as usual.

And how did you know that they are cover-ups, bro? Have you been investigating it yourself? Just because the 'media' you are using says it is, you believe so? Are you that gullible?

lets just admit that some groups within your church is... mmmm... not so saintly as you thought. but it doesn't mean all of em... just some of em. certain orders, certain groups and individuals...

You could be right - or you could be wrong.

the sad thing is the head of your church ang buhaton is to cover things up kay hadlok sila. para nila the image of holiness and infallibility is more important than the truth.

Did the Pope cover up the two incidents mentioned above? If not, then you are off your mark and are just bubbling.



How unfortunate for you, bro? You do not understand why we call the Pope as Holy Father. A challenge for you, bro. Read why Catholics call the Pope as Holy Father so that you can get it right. Infallibility? Do you know when infallibility can be used? Ayaw patakataka ug yawyaw, bro, kung wala ka kahibalo sa imong gipanulti. Kataw-anan kaayo ka sa mga nahibalo kung unsa na ug para unsa na ang infallibility. Hangyo lang ko.

now who could trust a church like that?

Very much because you have never proven that she is not the Church founded by Christ. You have just commented on certain incidents which the Church actually admitted as the way things would be since we are pilgrims of this world. We have concupiscence, and falling sometimes is a consequent of that. Yet, Christ always reminds us how many times we should forget. How many times do you hear people say that it is not the falling down that makes you a failure? Staying down does.

How could I trust someone who continue punching while someone is already down? You are going in for the kill, are you?

lets bring up the galileo issue again... it took them hundred of years to acknowledge na na sayop sila... and if ever dili liberal gamay ang pope at the time m gonna bet my devils a$$ na dili gyud to nila angkonon na sayop.

Here is an article on Galileo Galilei by the online Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06342b.htm). Read please. Another article here is by George Sims Johnston (http://www.ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/GALILEO.HTM). Finally, here is an article that addresses some of Protestants' contentions (http://www.catholic.com/library/galileo_controversy.asp).

Now, I wait to hear your side of the story.

how can you trust such hypocrites?

Define a hypocrite.

now again dili nako i-generalize but because ang church leaders mismo ang mu cover sa sayop sa ila kauban mura sila nag hatag ug rason and idea sa mga bad na elements within the church na untouchable sila.

[Gwynhuever]

@dacs....

1- The scandals could be true (my take and sholess's as well) they could be just stories (your take) ...unsa man blema ana...2 sides of the story man kaha...so why not listen with open mind to our side of the story as well?

2 - You asked if the Pope covered up the scandals...maybe and maybe not....basin gi try ug cover up nya wa ni succeed...or basin wa jud tinuod gi cover up...(which i doubt)....again 2 sides...

3 - I don't think it was necessary to call shoeless gullible ...morag mas gullible pa ang uban nga follow blindly lang without question....i would like to take that comment personally sad kay ako gud nag post sa scandals....mora man nuon mi nimo gi reduce ug mga batang way buot...nga tuo lang dayon ...we also happen to know about media hype and all.....usahay man gud ang imong comments double edged....maka defensive...dili lang unta ingon ana aron mapadayon ang discussion without sarcasm....

4 - On Galileo...simplify yon lang nato....it symbolizes the struggle between science and religion, the medieval and the modern, or intellectual freedom versus institutional authority. The theologians, philosophers and Church leaders misunderstood him. Moreover he was unable to give clinching proof for Copernican view. Galileo was convinced that he had the truth. But objectively he had no proof with which to win the allegiance even of open-minded men.Ang ang sad intawon oi...kuyaw sad tong panahon sa una....di sad lalim ang Inquisition....anyway...kuwang man tong imong link from Catholic source...wa man nila gibutang ang details ngano "napildi" si Galileo....The following are some scriptural passages quoted against Galileo where the explicit statement of the motion of the sun is placed:

“Stand still, O sun!, O moon!, in the valley of Ajalon! And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, while the nation took vengeance on its foes� Joshua 10:12-13

Lord has made the world firm, not to be moved Ps:92:1

Fixed the earth upon its foundation, not to be moved forever Ps.103:5

The sun rises and the sun goes down: then it presses on to the place where it rises. Eccl:1:5

mao na diha...unya saon man be....ok pas olrayt man si John Paul II ....minaw man katarungan nya humble enough man to admit nga sayop ang Church ....In his sincere effort to resolve age old suspicion and conflict between the Church and sciences, John Paul humbly accepted that the Church had been wrong in condemning Galileo and emphasized that instead of the theologians, it was Galileo who had demonstrated a way of understanding the scripture with established empirical data...

4 - lisoda sad sa imong sources ...Catholic Encyclopedia man...ngita ta ug lain nga mas neutral bro....

[tolstoi]

The Duplessis Orphans - source Wikipedia

The Duplessis Orphans (French: les Orphelins de Duplessis) refers to a scandal where several thousand orphaned children were falsely certified as mentally ill by the government of the province of Quebec, Canada and confined to psychiatric institutions. It is widely regarded as the largest case of institution-based child abuse in Canadian history.

Orphanages and schools were the financial responsibility of the provincial government but funding for mental institutions was also provided by the government of Canada. Beginning in the 1940s and continuing into the 1960s, Quebec Premier Maurice Duplessis in cooperation with the Roman Catholic Church who ran the orphanages, developed a scheme to obtain Federal funding for thousands of children, most of whom had been orphaned through their abandonment by an unwed mother. In some cases the Catholic orphanages were relabelled as health-care facilities and in other cases the children were shipped from orphanages to existing mental asylums. Years later, long after these institutions were closed, the adult children who had survived them began to speak out about the harsh treatment and sexual abuse they were forced to endure at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church priests, nuns, and administrators. Reminiscent of the abuses by the Catholic-run Magdalen Asylums, members of the Duplessis Orphans claim that they were used as slave labour and subjected to extreme physical abuse for misbehaviour.

Thanks again for this one.

It makes me realize that the forgiveness is an act - not just a word. Who is Duplessis again?

brod dacs..i just hope that the thread starter could make similar realization..that keeping HATRED is VILE, as what Jesus taught. =)

[dacs]

1- The scandals could be true (my take and sholess's as well) they could be just stories (your take) ...unsa man blema ana...2 sides of the story man kaha...so why not listen with open mind to our side of the story as well?

Let us make this clear : this is not your story. If you do have an open mind (as what you are trying to profess), then you would try to search for more facts before dipping your hands into this. You have arrived to certain point of view (as what you have posted) and then you stopped. That is not an open mind.

2 - You asked if the Pope covered up the scandals...maybe and maybe not....basin gi try ug cover up nya wa ni succeed...or basin wa jud tinuod gi cover up...(which i doubt)....again 2 sides...

Again, I have to question that 'open mind' thing.

3 - I don't think it was necessary to call shoeless gullible ...morag mas gullible pa ang uban nga follow blindly lang without question....i would like to take that comment personally sad kay ako gud nag post sa scandals....mora man nuon mi nimo gi reduce ug mga batang way buot...nga tuo lang dayon ...we also happen to know about media hype and all.....usahay man gud ang imong comments double edged....maka defensive...dili lang unta ingon ana aron mapadayon ang discussion without sarcasm....

Please open your mind. It is not only little children who are gullible.

4 - On Galileo...simplify yon lang nato....it symbolizes the struggle between science and religion, the medieval and the modern, or intellectual freedom versus institutional authority. The theologians, philosophers and Church leaders misunderstood him. Moreover he was unable to give clinching proof for Copernican view. Galileo was convinced that he had the truth. But objectively he had no proof with which to win the allegiance even of open-minded men.Ang ang sad intawon oi...kuyaw sad tong panahon sa una....di sad lalim ang Inquisition....anyway...kuwang man tong imong link from Catholic source...wa man nila gibutang ang details ngano "napildi" si Galileo....The following are some scriptural passages quoted against Galileo where the explicit statement of the motion of the sun is placed:

“Stand still, O sun!, O moon!, in the valley of Ajalon! And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, while the nation took vengeance on its foes� Joshua 10:12-13

Lord has made the world firm, not to be moved Ps:92:1

Fixed the earth upon its foundation, not to be moved forever Ps.103:5

The sun rises and the sun goes down: then it presses on to the place where it rises. Eccl:1:5

mao na diha...unya saon man be....ok pas olrayt man si John Paul II ....minaw man katarungan nya humble enough man to admit nga sayop ang Church ....In his sincere effort to resolve age old suspicion and conflict between the Church and sciences, John Paul humbly accepted that the Church had been wrong in condemning Galileo and emphasized that instead of the theologians, it was Galileo who had demonstrated a way of understanding the scripture with established empirical data...

Refer to the highlighted portion. I think you will find them contradictory at the very least. Was there established empirical data at the time of Galileo? I thought I have read that he has no proof. You should read about the writings of St. Augustine of Hippo and you will see where Galileo borrowed his idea in using Scriptures.

If what you have posted is true ('it symbolizes the struggle between science and religion, the medieval and the modern, or intellectual freedom versus institutional authority'), then it would be hard to find churchmen who were deeply involved in science at the time of Galileo. Fortunately, the opposite is true.

4 - lisoda sad sa imong sources ...Catholic Encyclopedia man...ngita ta ug lain nga mas neutral bro....

Is anything wrong or mistaken about the articles? Exercise an open mind and objectively analyze what is presented to you. Sources were quoted which could be checked.

Define 'neutral' please.

[mannyamador]

now who could trust a church like that?

Any honest person, of course, would trust the Catholic Church. Why? Because it is an honest Church. Unlike those who pretend that their churches are full of perfect people, the Catholic Church makes no such pretense. It is a Church made up of sinners. Even its leaders are sinners

And while you're at it, kindly show me a sinless church, headed by sinless leaders, or populated by sinless people, so that yiou can show us the church we should believe in.

Yoiu CAN'T, right? I thought so.

lets bring up the galileo issue again... it took them hundred of years to acknowledge na na sayop sila.

Really? Please tell me what FACTS you really iknow about the Galileo case. I'll bet you don't know much at all, especially the real issues involved. Was it just heliocentrism, or was it actually personal? If you think the Church had a doctrine against heliocentirsm, then you really know NOTHING about the case.