Imagine, no religion, no God

[chad_tukes]

Because the Secularist West wants to bombed out this backward Islamic countries into liberalism. The fact is that Islam is not only a religion but it is also their form of government...a war with their government is a war against their religion. If democracy is for the secular while Islam is for the muslim world- a world which submitted itself to Allah..it's hard to understand if we view this as nothing more than as another form religious domination.

Before secularism was born, religion was already there building nations and civilizations- Islam is one of them. Now, secularism and its bigotry towards any thing that had to do with religion is going to push the button for nuclear free for all. Oh...Israel is a good pawn for this as an opening salvo, after the dust have settled blame it all for these no goody religion et all...nice shot! the propaganda is already here "RELIGION IS THE CAUSE OF ALL WARS"...

propaganda? it's no propaganda. Religion IS the cause of war. well, except for Bush and his cronies' hunger for the slick substance. other than that, 9/11 and the murders are caused by religion---unless you're a conspiracy theorist and think the Jews killed us. nonetheless, Jews or Muslim---still fueled by religion. heck, if Allah tells me i have 72 virgins waiting up in heaven---i'd be the first one to die.

[chad_tukes]

Nyaks! how can I be a victim when I need to be victimized ahehe? Like a drug addict as a victim?

But you do had a point, sometimes I encounter christian teaching that 'we should give because the Lord had been gracious with us'- translated as something you drop into the 'box' or the envelope..hehehe otherwise the good Lord will take away your abundance. This bomb the hell out of me...I looked around I see people half believing, their wallets creaking as they opened it attest to this. Nevertheless they give not necessarily because of the threat but they see the need of the ministry to do its tasks. Even if God's love and grace are freely given, spreading these message is not nowadays.

Take a survey why people give donation or gifts to the church or some christian ministries, Spiritual blackmail is the lest of them.

how did you know that people donate because they SEE the need of the ministry to do its tasks, and not because they are being brainwashed? again, how do you know this? is this actually a FACT of life or these are just your observations? but even if they are your observations, how to know they are valid observations? you can't read people's minds. ever heard of Ted Haggard? what about Peter Popoff?

[Existanz]

how did you know that people donate because they SEE the need of the ministry to do its tasks, and not because they are being brainwashed? again, how do you know this? is this actually a FACT of life or these are just your observations? but even if they are your observations, how to know they are valid observations? you can't read people's minds. ever heard of Ted Haggard? what about Peter Popoff?

Common sense lang Chad so lets spare ourselves with technicality...you see, if religion have such power to brainwashed people into whatever doctrine how come there are still hungry people in the streets, when most of the time people are reminded to give to the needy? How come people still go to court and sue people rather than forgive their crime? Love thy enemy as you love yourself, yet people still are having enemies hehehe...Hell, every Sunday people go to church or a congregation they're brainwashed to be a good christian and yet again come Monday morning they turn back into each of their own idiosyncrasies...truth is people are having a hard time following truly what their religion dictates while at the same time facing a very demanding world that forces them to do away what their religion teaches them, in order to have a 'successful life'- a materialistic abundance.

That is why, sometimes we can hear something like 'God give to those who give to others' and the lot more, as an added emphasis just to cajole people into sharing out from their pocket for funds needed on a community project or for the maintenance of the place of worship. Because truth is, most people find it hard to take a part from something that is hard-earned from days of toils. They're not just sitting their at the pews like a bunch of brain-dead folks, pulling out their wallets zombie like manner you imagined them to be. Even if some of them are less educated than you, still they're not plain stupid Chad.

[Existanz]

propaganda? it's no propaganda. Religion IS the cause of war. well, except for Bush and his cronies' hunger for the slick substance. other than that, 9/11 and the murders are caused by religion---unless you're a conspiracy theorist and think the Jews killed us. nonetheless, Jews or Muslim---still fueled by religion. heck, if Allah tells me i have 72 virgins waiting up in heaven---i'd be the first one to die.

That's how it really look in the news today can't blame you really...Oh the about the Jews and the Muslim, they used to live side by side in peace for many years. If religion is the causes of war how come we have christians and muslims in the marketplace or in the streets doing business and not killing each others? Funny, why aren't they shouting at each others about who's religion is the truth?

9/11 was cause not only by a religion's fault- it's more than that. Read history and see what the west did in those countries in the middle east for many years and realized what mentality it breed among those who suffered. Religion is simply where people draw their strength when they are in the losing side of a battle...those people who have suffered under the regimes the likes of the Sha of Iran, Saddam in Iraq and many more CIA propped-up government in past and even in the present what do they have to not lose their hopes against the battleships, fighter jets, tanks and missiles of the west who was responsible for all of this tyrants? One way or another people will make a strike just to show that they can't be forever be just being push and push around indefinitely by those around them who are feeling superior in some way.

For us who grew up in a western outlook an attack against a democratic country is an attack against democracy itself, could it be that if we are Muslim that an attack against any Muslim country is an attack against Islam itself also?

[skoilhp]

The great truth we are considering is the fundamental principle running through all religions. We find it in every one. In regard to it all agree. It is, moreover, a great truth in regard to which all people can agree, whether they belong to the same or to different religions. People always quarrel about the trifles, about their personal views of minor insignificant points. They always come together in the presence of great fundamental truths, the threads of which run through all. The quarrels are in connection with the lower self, the agreements are in connection with the higher self.

A place may have its factions that quarrel and fight among themselves, but let a great calamity come upon the land, flood, famine, pestilence, and these little personal differences are entirely forgotten and all work shoulder to shoulder in the one great cause. The changing, the evolving self gives rise to quarrels; the permanent, the soul self unites all in the highest efforts of love and service.

Patriotism is a beautiful thing; it is well for me to love my country, but why should I love my own country more than I love all others? If I love my own and hate others, I then show my limitations, and my patriotism will stand the test not even for my own. If I love my own country and in the same way love all other countries, then I show the largeness of my nature, and a patriotism of this kind is noble and always to be relied upon.

In Tune With the Infinite, by Ralph Waldo Trine, 1910

[thethird79]

propaganda? it's no propaganda. Religion IS the cause of war. well, except for Bush and his cronies' hunger for the slick substance. other than that, 9/11 and the murders are caused by religion---unless you're a conspiracy theorist and think the Jews killed us. nonetheless, Jews or Muslim---still fueled by religion. heck, if Allah tells me i have 72 virgins waiting up in heaven---i'd be the first one to die.

Religion: the cause of war? Isn't it a simplistic claim? The danger with this claim is that anyone who wants to wage ware could make use of religion for his own advantage while hiding his own hidden motives, e.g. getting rich. I say, a religion can trigger (and can be used to start for) a war. But it's not the cause of war.

[skoilhp]

The view of God in regard to which we are agreed, that He is the Infinite Spirit of Life and Power that is back of all, that is working in and through all. that is the life of all, is a matter in regard to which all men, all religions can agree. With this view there can be no infidels or atheists. There are atheists and infidels in connection with many views that are held concerning God, and thank God there are. Even devout and earnest people among us attribute things to God that no respectable men or women would permit to be attributed to themselves. This view is satisfying to those who cannot see how God can be angry with his children, jealous, vindictive. A display of these qualities always lessens our respect for men and women, and still we attribute them to God.

The earnest, sincere heretic is one of the greatest friends true religion can have. Heretics are among God's greatest servants. They are among the true servants of mankind. Christ was one of the greatest heretics the world has ever known. He allowed himself to be bound by no established or orthodox teachings or beliefs. Christ is preeminently a type of the universal. John the Baptist is a type of the personal. John dressed in a particular way, ate a particular kind of food, belonged to a particular order, lived and taught in a particular locality, and he himself recognized the fact that he must decrease while Christ must increase. Christ, on the other hand, gave himself absolutely no limitations. He allowed himself to be bound by nothing. He was absolutely universal and as a consequence taught not for his own particular day, but for all time.

This mighty truth which we have agreed upon as the great central fact of human life is the golden thread that runs through all religions. When we make it the paramount fact in our lives we will find that minor differences, narrow prejudices, and all these laughable absurdities will so fall away by virtue of their very insignificance, that a Jew can worship equally as well in a Catholic cathedral, a Catholic in a Jewish synagogue. a Buddhist in a Christian church, a Christian in a Buddhist temple. Or all can worship equally well about their own hearth-stones, or out on the hillside, or while pursuing the avocations of every-day life. For true worship, only God and the human soul are necessary. It does not depend upon times, or seasons, or occasions. Anywhere and at any time God and man in the bush may meet.

In Tune With the Infinite, by Ralph Waldo Trine, 1910

[brahhgy]

Try to watch Zeitgeist the Movie in youtube...
nice kaayu,

[buttmen]

Try to watch Zeitgeist the Movie in youtube...
nice kaayu,

ngiga dah...
ang director maoy writer, producer, scorer, editor
ug unsa pa

[chad_tukes]

@Existanz and thethird79:

it is easy to blame it on the politics side of things and put aside the important role of religion. i ain't talking about history here---let's put that aside as it would take pages to discuss, but we have to discuss what is NOW. we see fundamentalist religion right before our very eyes. we don't even have to talk about WAR here---just see what's happening inside those muslim countries. the bigotry and sheer heartless cruelty imposed upon its people trying to convert to another religion is just one of too many examples. heard of Abdul Rahman? did he murder someone? no. all he did was change his mind. google what happened to him.

ok, maybe saying that Religion is the cause of war may be too simplistic and you may be right. however, you can't ignore religion as one of the main ingredients of war (note: i'm talking about the war on terror). my friends, we see extremism and absolutism at its very core and it's disheartening to know such dangers nearly always result from religious faith.