Imagine, no religion, no God

[chad_tukes]

Short cut sir? what do you mean? (politely asking)

one resorts to the belief of a supernatural without an effort to question his existence. just because you grew up believing in (whatever) religion you belong, you get used to practicing that religion. hence, you get accustomed to its practices and never bother to ask the "what ifs".

i'm not referring to you... i'm referring to the general population.

Everything around us is energy. These are the different manifestations of energies: solid, liquid, gas, infrared, ultraviolet, gamma and so on. As it moves forward the manifestation or form of the energy gets more subtle. An accomplished mystic is able to tap these energies.

are you suggesting that GOD himself is energy, and therefore, exist but only invisible to the naked eye?

[Lifeforce]

one resorts to the belief of a supernatural without an effort to question his existence. just because you grew up believing in (whatever) religion you belong, you get used to practicing that religion. hence, you get accustomed to its practices and never bother to ask the "what ifs".

i'm not referring to you... i'm referring to the general population.



are you suggesting that GOD himself is energy, and therefore, exist but only invisible to the naked eye?

In my case and others that I know, our belief in the supernatural came because of extensive research and few experiences of the mystical nature of life.

Yes God is Energy himself.

[chad_tukes]

In my case and others that I know, our belief in the supernatural came because of extensive research and few experiences of the mystical nature of life.

Yes God is Energy himself.

care to share some of that extensive research? it'd be interesting to know.

[The_Child]

maybe one should know the roots of religion and how it came about. where did religion come from? who made religion? were the people who made religion rational themselves? or they made religion because they THOUGHT it was rational? there is a big difference. just because one must exhaust reason and its possibility doesn't make religion itself rational. religion is just a man-made concept but it doesn't account for rationality.
you have to go out of your own bubble and view religion in a bird's eye view. religion is a waste of time; it is a manifest of man's need for belongingness, but again, that doesn't mean it's rational. religion can endanger the life of others. thousands of people have been persecuted because of religion. resources are WASTED because of RELIGION. how many churches/cathedrals have been built and later only dwelt with for recognizable useful purposes? now tell me if that's rational.

reason, rational. What do you mean by rational? exactly because it is a concept, a man-made concept, as you say, therefore it is a product of Reason. To say that it is Irrational, is to say that "Religion" is against reason. But then this is a wrong presumption, "religion" is not against reason, for it is Reason itself, a quality inhering only to man, that made possible the creation of this concept called religion.

The problem of your analysis is you confuse theory with practice. there is no question that Religion indeed comes from reason, it is Rational. The proper rephrasing of the question is the impact of this concept of religion to the real practical world.

there are religious concepts, considered to bring harm/help to others. but this is not the issue, the issue is that Religion as a concept, comes from Reason itself.

maybe you should burst your own bubble of self-induced immaturity; to say that religion is a waste of time, is a statement totally devoid of any depth.

religion or the attempt for transcendence, necessarily springs from all human beings. so it is impossible not to conceived of religion. It is a waste? the entire human civilization is built upon the foundation of religion. it is said that one of the first manifestation of intelligence among early humans, which demarcated man from animals, is the act of burying their dead. Human Society formed and progress under the auspices of religion and rituals.

you may say, religion was useful during the early times but what about now, religion is useless?
but i say, that religion is as potent today as it was in the early times. religion continues to serve as a buffer from the totalizing effects of a materialist system which looks at everything in a close-system of objects exchanging objects. religion/spirituality/rituals et al. is that which emancipates us from this close-system, that helps us transcends the banality of life, pointing out that there is still something out there, and it is that something beyond which we appropriate to ourselves to attain meaning in our lives. in short, religion/spirituality/rituals/transcendence, it is those things that keeps us alive, as subjects, as individuals, as persons, as human beings, amidst the rule of the object, of the material system.

[chad_tukes]

reason, rational. What do you mean by rational? exactly because it is a concept, a man-made concept, as you say, therefore it is a product of Reason. To say that it is Irrational, is to say that "Religion" is against reason. But then this is a wrong presumption, "religion" is not against reason, for it is Reason itself, a quality inhering only to man, that made possible the creation of this concept called religion.

The problem of your analysis is you confuse theory with practice. there is no question that Religion indeed comes from reason, it is Rational. The proper rephrasing of the question is the impact of this concept of religion to the real practical world.

there are religious concepts, considered to bring harm/help to others. but this is not the issue, the issue is that Religion as a concept, comes from Reason itself.

maybe you should burst your own bubble of self-induced immaturity; to say that religion is a waste of time, is a statement totally devoid of any depth.

religion or the attempt for transcendence, necessarily springs from all human beings. so it is impossible not to conceived of religion. It is a waste? the entire human civilization is built upon the foundation of religion. it is said that one of the first manifestation of intelligence among early humans, which demarcated man from animals, is the act of burying their dead. Human Society formed and progress under the auspices of religion and rituals.

you may say, religion was useful during the early times but what about now, religion is useless?
but i say, that religion is as potent today as it was in the early times. religion continues to serve as a buffer from the totalizing effects of a materialist system which looks at everything in a close-system of objects exchanging objects. religion/spirituality/rituals et al. is that which emancipates us from this close-system, that helps us transcends the banality of life, pointing out that there is still something out there, and it is that something beyond which we appropriate to ourselves to attain meaning in our lives. in short, religion/spirituality/rituals/transcendence, it is those things that keeps us alive, as subjects, as individuals, as persons, as human beings, amidst the rule of the object, of the material system.

or maybe you could just ask "WHAT'S SO WRONG ABOUT RELIGION?" well, a lot of things are wrong about religion and as hard as i try not too sound hostile, i can't avoid it. maybe you can call me a fundamentalist atheist just as the same level as the religious fundamentalist out there but rest assure that i'm not quite there yet.

anyhow, i base my belief (or non-belief) in evidence. nothing more to it. evidence. anything outside the confines of "evidence" i disregard. now religion, on the other hand, borders on irrationality because it is absolutism at its finest. there is a light and a dark side of course, of absolutism. religion belongs to the latter. the cultural and historical aspects of religion that you mentioned only describes the dark side; a whole book is not enough to document it. the persecutions, the suicide bombings---are caused by religion. rational indeed.

just one example: there are people who, because of their religious convictions, think abortion is murder and would kill in defense of "babies". abortionists are constantly bombarded with threatening phone calls. i could go on.... but it would already be too long.

[bluedes]

you may say, religion was useful during the early times but what about now, religion is useless?
but i say, that religion is as potent today as it was in the early times. religion continues to serve as a buffer from the totalizing effects of a materialist system which looks at everything in a close-system of objects exchanging objects. religion/spirituality/rituals et al. is that which emancipates us from this close-system, that helps us transcends the banality of life, pointing out that there is still something out there, and it is that something beyond which we appropriate to ourselves to attain meaning in our lives. in short, religion/spirituality/rituals/transcendence, it is those things that keeps us alive, as subjects, as individuals, as persons, as human beings, amidst the rule of the object, of the material system.

nice one!

first, there was science, then scientists become philosophers, then philosophers turn to religion..

[chad_tukes]

nice one!

first, there was science, then scientists become philosophers, then philosophers turn to religion..

...then religion becomes science?

[The_Child]

or maybe you could just ask "WHAT'S SO WRONG ABOUT RELIGION?" well, a lot of things are wrong about religion and as hard as i try not too sound hostile, i can't avoid it. maybe you can call me a fundamentalist atheist just as the same level as the religious fundamentalist out there but rest assure that i'm not quite there yet.

anyhow, i base my belief (or non-belief) in evidence. nothing more to it. evidence. anything outside the confines of "evidence" i disregard. now religion, on the other hand, borders on irrationality because it is absolutism at its finest. there is a light and a dark side of course, of absolutism. religion belongs to the latter. the cultural and historical aspects of religion that you mentioned only describes the dark side; a whole book is not enough to document it. the persecutions, the suicide bombings---are caused by religion. rational indeed.

just one example: there are people who, because of their religious convictions, think abortion is murder and would kill in defense of "babies". abortionists are constantly bombarded with threatening phone calls. i could go on.... but it would already be too long.

because murder is murder. you dont have to be a fundamentalist or a believer to believe that abortion is in itself wrong. there are atheists who believes that abortion is wrong.

persecutions, suicide bombings, these are not just religious intent perhaps not really religious, they are more particularly, political. thats what happens when you dogmatize religion and mix it with ultra-radical political ideologies.



belief based in evidence is not belief. belief is exactly the exhaustion of reason, where reason could no longer venture. that is belief, that is faith.

[bluedes]

...then religion becomes science?

for people who claim that religion is science obviously did not pass the science stage..

[bluedes]

persecutions, suicide bombings, these are not just religious intent perhaps not really religious, they are more particularly, political. thats what happens when you dogmatize religion and mix it with ultra-radical political ideologies.

its kinda unfair to blame religion for all that.. its like blaming democracy when the people in the government are themselves corrupt..