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  1. #141

    befor mo solti naai Ginoo or wala basaha usa ang Bible, unaha basa ang New Testament dayon ang Old Testament, kong gusto mo ma dali, basaha una ang Psalm 22:18 nya basaha dayon ang Mattthew 27:35, ig human ninyo basa. panghutan-a ninyo inyong self gi onsa pag tagna ni king david ang nahitabo ni Jesus na 400 BC man na tao si king david, kong dili pa mo mo too basaha ang Holy Bible kong wala mo Holy Bible naai daghan sa internet eh google ninyo, ang New Living Translation mao ang pinaka dali sabton

  2. #142
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    WE can not prove the presence of God, as humans,
    because He is simply not here in the vicinity of our solar system.
    But we ourselves are the proof that He existed and was here.

  3. #143
    C.I.A. rodsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedes View Post
    you can keep on saying that life is meaningless, but the fact that you keep on living (not because you can, but you must..) pretty much goes against the very notion of life as meaningless.
    I keep on living because I want to--it's a choice. It's not something that has to have meaning in order to be considered as valid response.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedes View Post
    and fear has no place in biology.. i dont know where you've read that, but that's a misnomer..
    intelligence is what makes a living thing survive, not fear. sometimes, intelligence is misconstrued as fear. when a living thing avoids something, it does not mean it fears it, it simply means that its smart enough to avoid it because it knows that if it goes head on, it will surely perish if it continues to do so. that's why its called "adaptation".. you don't vanquish your enemy.. you bend as the bamboo bends with the wind to avoid breaking itself against nature.

    on the contrary, although something that fears will adapt for the time being, sooner or later it will perish under its own fear. intelligence does not do that..


    Fear is an emotional response to a threat. It is a basic survival mechanism occurring in response to a specific stimulus, such as pain or the threat of danger. Some psychologists such as John B. Watson, Robert Plutchik, and Paul Ekman have suggested that fear is one of a small set of basic or innate emotions. This set also includes such emotions as joy, sadness, and anger. Fear should be distinguished from the related emotional state of anxiety, which typically occurs without any external threat. Additionally, fear is related to the specific behaviors of escape and avoidance, whereas anxiety is the result of threats which are perceived to be uncontrollable or unavoidable. Worth noting is that fear always relates to future events, such as worsening of a situation, or continuation of a situation that is unacceptable.
    .
    .
    .
    Neurobiology

    The amygdala is a key brain structure in the neurobiology of fear. It is involved in the processing of negative emotions (such as fear and anger). Researchers have observed hyperactivity in the amygdala when patients who were shown threatening faces or confronted with frightening situations. Patients with a more severe social phobia showed a correlation with increased response in the amygdala. Studies have also shown that subjects exposed to images of frightened faces, or faces of people from another race, exhibit increased activity in the amygdala.

    The fear response generated by the amygdala can be mitigated by another brain region known as the rostral anterior cingulate cortex, located in the frontal lobe. In a 2006 study at Columbia University, researchers observed that test subjects experienced less activity in the amygdala when they consciously perceived fearful stimuli than when they unconsciously perceived fearful stimuli. In the former case, they discovered the rostral anterior cingulate cortex activates to dampen activity in amygdala, granting the subjects a degree of emotional control.

    The role of the amygdala in the processing of fear-related stimuli has been questioned by research upon those in which it is b1lateral damaged. Even in the absence of their amygdala, they still react rapidly to fearful faces.

    Suppression of amygdala activity can also be achieved by pathogens. Rats infected with the toxoplasmosis parasite become less fearful of cats, sometimes even seeking out their urine-marked areas. This behavior often leads to them being eaten by cats. The parasite then reproduces within the body of the cat. There is evidence that the parasite concentrates itself in the amygdala of infected rats.
    .
    .
    .
    Further reading

    * Bourke, Joanna, Fear: a cultural history, Virago (2005)
    * Robin, Corey, Fear: the history of a political idea, Oxford University Press (2004)
    * Duenwald, Mary. The Physiology of ... Facial Expressions, Discover magazine, v.26, n.1, January 2005
    * Gardner, Dan, Risk: The Science and Politics of Fear, Random House, Inc., 2008. ISBN 0771032994
    * Krishnamurti, Jiddu, On Fear, Harper Collins, ISBN 0-06-251014-2 (1995)


    -RODION
    Last edited by rodsky; 10-21-2009 at 08:12 AM.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
    I keep on living because I want to--it's a choice. It's not something that has to have meaning in order to be considered as valid response.
    precisely that you "want to" means you have a reason.. or purpose.. or meaning.. be it unknown to you or to others.. its implicit.. the choice is to live or not to live.. there is nothing in between.. if there was something in between, then you can claim that it doesn't necessarily have to have meaning.. (laws of logic)

    but that is not the case here.. people live because they honestly don't want to die.. the purpose of life is to live.. simple as that.. if you can't grasp that, then you certainly are just pretending to live without a purpose..

    i'm not talking here of some almighty divine purpose for life.. that's ambiguous.. i'm merely pointing out that life's purpose is to live (and survive.. and evolve neccesarily in order to survive)

    if you have no such purpose in your living, why do you still eat? you can choose not to.. but you can't.. because you need to, in order to live.. so don't go saying you have no purpose.. that's very hypocritical and selfish indeed.. you eat and drink and its meaningless? so you are merely consuming anything that will make u live without thought of what/where it has come from? but you find the will, and there's purpose in that.. without will, there's no purpose.. without purpose, there's no will..

    anyway, i think i've made my point clearly..

    Quote Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
    Fear is an emotional response to a threat. It is a basic survival mechanism occurring in response to a specific stimulus, such as pain or the threat of danger. Some psychologists such as John B. Watson, Robert Plutchik, and Paul Ekman have suggested that fear is one of a small set of basic or innate emotions. This set also includes such emotions as joy, sadness, and anger. Fear should be distinguished from the related emotional state of anxiety, which typically occurs without any external threat. Additionally, fear is related to the specific behaviors of escape and avoidance, whereas anxiety is the result of threats which are perceived to be uncontrollable or unavoidable. Worth noting is that fear always relates to future events, such as worsening of a situation, or continuation of a situation that is unacceptable.
    .
    .
    .
    Neurobiology

    The amygdala is a key brain structure in the neurobiology of fear. It is involved in the processing of negative emotions (such as fear and anger). Researchers have observed hyperactivity in the amygdala when patients who were shown threatening faces or confronted with frightening situations. Patients with a more severe social phobia showed a correlation with increased response in the amygdala. Studies have also shown that subjects exposed to images of frightened faces, or faces of people from another race, exhibit increased activity in the amygdala.

    The fear response generated by the amygdala can be mitigated by another brain region known as the rostral anterior cingulate cortex, located in the frontal lobe. In a 2006 study at Columbia University, researchers observed that test subjects experienced less activity in the amygdala when they consciously perceived fearful stimuli than when they unconsciously perceived fearful stimuli. In the former case, they discovered the rostral anterior cingulate cortex activates to dampen activity in amygdala, granting the subjects a degree of emotional control.

    The role of the amygdala in the processing of fear-related stimuli has been questioned by research upon those in which it is b1lateral damaged. Even in the absence of their amygdala, they still react rapidly to fearful faces.

    Suppression of amygdala activity can also be achieved by pathogens. Rats infected with the toxoplasmosis parasite become less fearful of cats, sometimes even seeking out their urine-marked areas. This behavior often leads to them being eaten by cats. The parasite then reproduces within the body of the cat. There is evidence that the parasite concentrates itself in the amygdala of infected rats.
    .
    Further reading

    * Bourke, Joanna, Fear: a cultural history, Virago (2005)
    * Robin, Corey, Fear: the history of a political idea, Oxford University Press (2004)
    * Duenwald, Mary. The Physiology of ... Facial Expressions, Discover magazine, v.26, n.1, January 2005
    * Gardner, Dan, Risk: The Science and Politics of Fear, Random House, Inc., 2008. ISBN 0771032994
    * Krishnamurti, Jiddu, On Fear, Harper Collins, ISBN 0-06-251014-2 (1995)


    -RODION
    that fear you have quoted from is not the one you described earlier.. that fear is termed animal intelligence.. and that is in psychology, not biology.. but it is described by psychologists as "fear" in human terms.. in biology, there is no such things as emotions hard-wired into the genes or brain.. its all chemical signals, transduction, and biological pathways.. but in psychology, since they deal with human behavior, the labels are necessary.. go deeper into clinical psych, and ud go back to biology.

    anyway, my point is that the fear you described as hard-wired into our brain is totally different from what you have just posted earlier..

    Quote Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
    Fear is another major factor. All creatures, especially sentient beings, are wired to fear the unknown, because avoiding the unknown increases the chances for self preservation. Thus the creation of the concept of a divine entity helps to fill that big black gaping hole of unknown and make humans feel at ease with the world better than a situation where there is no "plug" to that hole.
    -RODION
    we are not hard-wired to fear the unknown.. there's no such thing in biology.. we do learn to fear what we know from prior experience that will hurt us.. but that is not unknown at all.. no living species is hard-wired to fear the unknown.. it will have to know first that it is a threat before it will avoid such threat.. otherwise, it is unknown, and therefore not feared at all.. in fact, the unknown will have a totally opposite reaction to a living species.. and that is awe and bewilderment.. in the same way as humans will react to something that is unknown..

    of course, a human mind is a very complex mechanism.. and sometimes, it will mistakenly associate something that is unknown with something that is known beforehand, so it will trigger the fear mechanism prematurely.. usually, we are afraid of the dark, because of ghosts or falling or frightened due to precursor experience before. but that is only if we had a bad experience with something that is dark.. otherwise, if it was already hard-wired into our brains, all the babies in pregnant women's womb would always be crying as a response out of fear.. but you certainly don't see that happening..

    fear of the unknown is not hard-wired in humans (or any living species for that matter)..

  5. #145
    C.I.A. rodsky's Avatar
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    I see the problem with our argument. We do not see on equal terms. There is no equal footing.

    For you, meaning = purpose. I wasn't referring to meaning = purpose. My definition of meaning is one that goes like this:

    Religious people usually say "There is a grand design in life, thus there is meaning in life." My belief? Based on accumulated knowledge and empirical information I have about the world around me, there is no "grand design" in life. Thus, there is no meaning. We are all made from the same star stuff. If one were to inject "meaning" or some grand scheme to the way I live my life, I would put that person in suspect of manipulation of my urge for self-determinism--i.e. if that person is successful in convincing other people that there is a grand design to life, and that a set of rules and regulations be followed for this grand design to take effect, and that there needs to be financial "contribution" to the cause, then I would declare that person to be starting a religion, something purely of his invention, and not exactly authoritative enough to be considered as proof of a "grand design" for all things.

    The same applies to the disagreement between your definition of fear, and my definition of fear. Because of this, there will be no end to our discussion. It will keep going. There will be momentary rests due perhaps to disinterest in the topic, but unless we both agree to keep certain terms on equal footing, this is a roundabout argument that has no end.

    ADDENDUM: There is nothing to fear inside a mother's womb, it's the idyllic "safe place", so why should babies inside a mother's womb be fearful? In fact, most of the reasons why we fear the real world, is because we have this subconscious urge to go back into the "sanctuary" of our mother's womb.

    -RODION
    Last edited by rodsky; 10-21-2009 at 09:37 AM.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
    I see the problem with our argument. We do not see on equal terms. There is no equal footing.

    For you, meaning = purpose. I wasn't referring to meaning = purpose. My definition of meaning is one that goes like this:

    Religious people usually say "There is a grand design in life, thus there is meaning in life." My belief? Based on accumulated knowledge and empirical information I have about the world around me, there is no "grand design" in life. Thus, there is no meaning. We are all made from the same star stuff. If one were to inject "meaning" or some grand scheme to the way I live my life, I would put that person in suspect of manipulation of my urge for self-determinism--i.e. if that person is successful in convincing other people that there is a grand design to life, and that a set of rules and regulations be followed for this grand design to take effect, and that there needs to be financial "contribution" to the cause, then I would declare that person to be starting a religion, something purely of his invention, and not exactly authoritative enough to be considered as proof of a "grand design" for all things.

    The same applies to the disagreement between your definition of fear, and my definition of fear. Because of this, there will be no end to our discussion. It will keep going. There will be momentary rests due perhaps to disinterest in the topic, but unless we both agree to keep certain terms on equal footing, this is a roundabout argument that has no end.

    ADDENDUM: There is nothing to fear inside a mother's womb, it's the idyllic "safe place", so why should babies inside a mother's womb be fearful? In fact, most of the reasons why we fear the real world, is because we have this subconscious urge to go back into the "sanctuary" of our mother's womb.

    -RODION
    the only grand design of life based on our argument is for it to live.. its inherent.. whatever other grand design that religion or other fantastical notions thereof, i doubt there is any either.. but since you don't see it that way, then life in your own terms is meaningless..

    but anyway, to add further, there are also no rules whatsoever... whatever is necessary to live, life will take that chance, in as much as we will do whatever it takes to survive, that's life's purpose/meaning..

    about the womb:
    on the contrary, the baby knows nothing, but it is already conscious.. its realm is unknown.. when it wakes up momentarily, does it know it is in the mother's womb? does it know it is developing its limbs and appendages? it doesn't.. all it knows is it receives sustenance.. it has no knowledge that its in the womb.. in due time over the course of nine months, it will know..

    you can put a baby in an incubator with appropriate sustenance, and for all it cares, it does not care about the unknown, it does not fight the unknown, because it does not fear what it does not know..

    fear of the unknown is a misnomer.. that is my point..

    fear is a response mechanism of a threat (imagined/real).. how can one fear the unknown if it cannot even know that its a threat or not.. living things must first sense if there is a threat, and based on association of previous experience/memory, then it will trigger the response mechanism.

    the only closest analogy to the fear of the unknown in biology is signal transduction in the immune system.. and (i think) that's an exception.. it is designed that way.. whenever an immune system recognizes a foreign entity, it will immediately attack it and neutralize it (without having to know it first, hehe) that's the purpose of the immune system anyway..

    on a larger perspective, if you do not pose a threat to a bunch of herd, you will not be attacked just because you are unknown to them.. if you show such threat, of course, you will immediately be feared (attacked/avoided, fight/flee)..

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
    You are right. People are happy because they indeed have something to run to--religion.

    I'm not "waiting for the day to fade." I do stuff that makes me happy and make other people happy. But it doesn't have to have meaning. I do what I do, because I can do it.

    I'm not settling for anything less--I'm living my life to the fullest, doing the things I can do. I am happier nowadays compared to the times when I had religion in my life, and I believe this is because at the moment, I'm the one in control of my life. Self-determinism is an important factor in self-awareness and the freedom from fear of the unknown.

    -RODION
    Having a religion does not prohibit those... i wonder why your living to the fullest motto is such a fullest.

    think about this:
    "You donate blood because you think it will help to those who need it most." -with meaning
    "You donate blood because you can..." -no meaning

    so which is fullest in sense? hmmm... i wonder if you can comprehend a life with meaning and a life without one... Gud day brad.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by chad_tukes View Post
    that's the only time life has a meaning. other than that, life is meaningless.
    you are free to believe it... but don't tell us life has no meaning... by the way we are enjoying that meaning to love, help each other, to care and see one another. If you will have your own family you will discover this meanings and purpose. Lets wait until you grow up chad. Again you are free to believe it, just dont dictate how things will be.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by bluedes View Post
    if God exists in individuals' minds, then the result of that would be religious arrogance and prejudice claiming their God is better than others..

    but God simply is not, and cannot be contained.. that's why its God.. otherwise it would cease to be God..

    all the religious texts in the world only barely describe God, and people are already claiming that their god is right and the way to heaven.. which is sad.. that is the idolized god..

    God does not need individual minds to exist.. it simply is..
    if God exists in individuals' minds, then the result of that would be religious arrogance and prejudice claiming their God is better than others..
    --- i don't see why this becomes a problem. Of course why settle for anything less... you must worship the ULTIMATE GOD. hmmmm.

    God does not need individual minds to exist.. it simply is..
    --- thats why i see you wrong. I exist for his purpose, to worship him.

    Analogy:
    If a president will go to a mall and no one will pay respect, then there is something wrong... right? If a president go to a mall with people cheering and anticipating his arival, wouldnt it be RIGHT?

    question, why did you say this: God does not need individual minds to exist! does it mean God does not needs us?

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by kebotDiNaMute View Post
    if God exists in individuals' minds, then the result of that would be religious arrogance and prejudice claiming their God is better than others..
    --- i don't see why this becomes a problem. Of course why settle for anything less... you must worship the ULTIMATE GOD. hmmmm.

    God does not need individual minds to exist.. it simply is..
    --- thats why i see you wrong. I exist for his purpose, to worship him.

    Analogy:
    If a president will go to a mall and no one will pay respect, then there is something wrong... right? If a president go to a mall with people cheering and anticipating his arival, wouldnt it be RIGHT?

    question, why did you say this: God does not need individual minds to exist! does it mean God does not needs us?
    why would God need you? God does not need your worship even.. does God depend on you for existence?

    that's why people around the world quarrel about religion on who's god is better.. bickering.. when all they do is actually just creating this god in their minds.. which is not God at all.. but an idol..

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