Biblical truth be told

[RolandBarroJr]

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Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Sir, does this mean that if I believed but will not be baptized I will not be condemned but save?

Read the footnote of your bible, it says it does not appear on earlier manuscripts. It means we cannot draw conclusion from that verse or verses. Even so, it contradicts other doctrines especially The Doctrine of Eternal Security of the Believer.

[chad_tukes]

Read the footnote of your bible, it says it does not appear on earlier manuscripts. It means we cannot draw conclusion from that verse or verses. Even so, it contradicts other doctrines especially The Doctrine of Eternal Security of the Believer.

then why believe in it when it's not conclusive, hence, contradictory in nature?

[Existanz]

Read the footnote of your bible, it says it does not appear on earlier manuscripts. It means we cannot draw conclusion from that verse or verses. Even so, it contradicts other doctrines especially The Doctrine of Eternal Security of the Believer.

Okay...by the way Sir, if you have some time to spare, please kindly PM me this "The Doctrine Of Eternal Security of the Believer". Thanks..

[RolandBarroJr]

Pien, sa ako reply naa ang tubag. Dungag, lang pud - dili sala ang hinungdan nganong ang tawo muadto sa impyerno kay kung sala lang wala malangit.

Tulog sa ko Pien, padal-i lang ko og private message para ani para matagaan dayon nako og tubag kay usahay mawala sa kadaghan og samokan. SALAMAT. Sa Diyos ang Himaya.

kung dili mawala ang salvation bro, unsaon mani nimo pag reconcile ani nga verse bro?

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Pien, hulat hulata lang sa bay ha? Kay naipit ako oras didto sa "inspiration" nga issue. Ugma mahuman na nako ang tubag sa imo pangutana. Ok lang man siguro no?

[RolandBarroJr]

Okay...by the way Sir, if you have some time to spare, please kindly PM me this "The Doctrine Of Eternal Security of the Believer". Thanks..

Ok, Brod. Hulat lang mga gabii pa nako na mapadala sa inyo. Salamat.

[RolandBarroJr]

Maayong buntag sa tanan. Tulog sa ko.

[Existanz]

then why believe in it when it's not conclusive, hence, contradictory in nature?

Ang unsa imo gi-mean Chad- ang Bible o ang Verse na gi-point out?

[HALIKniHUDAS]

VERBAL, PLENARY INSPIRATION

1. VERBAL, PLENARY INSPIRATION is the unqualified claim of the Bible for itself, the teaching of Christ and the Apostles and the belief of the Church from her beginning.

2. DEFINITION: - Inspiration (panuluktuk) means a cooperative effort between God and man to produce an inerrant and infallible manuscript.

3. DEFINITION: - Verbal (sa pulong) inspiration means that the original writings were guided by the Spirit of God so that the [Click ] choice of words expressed God’s point of view.

4. DEFINITION: - Plenary (puno) inspiration means that the accuracy secured (attained, accomplished) by verbal inspiration is [Click ] extended fully to every portion of Scripture so that in all its parts Scripture is both infallible as to truth and final as to divine authority.

5. SCRIPTURE: 2 Timothy 3:16

pa=sa grafh\ qeo/pneusto$ kai\ w)fe/limo$ pro\$ didaskali/an, pro\$ e)legmo/n, pro\$ e)pano/rqwsin, pro\$ paidei/an th\n e)n dikaiosu/nh|, (GHB)


All scripture is given by inspiration of God [theopneustos] and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (KJV)

Ang tibook nga Kasulatan gibugna sa Dios, ug may kapuslanan usab alang sa pagtudlo, sa pagbadlong, sa pagsaway, sa pagmatuto sa pagkamatarung: (CKJ)



All Scripture is inspired by God [theopneustos]and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; (NAS)



All Scripture is God-breathed [theopneustos] and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (NIV)

Ang tibuok nga Kasulatan gisulat uban sa lamdag sa Dios ug may kapuslanan sa pagtudlo, sa pagbadlong, sa pagsaway ug sa pagmatuto sa pagkamatarong, (NCV)


For all Scripture is inspired by God [theopneustos] and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults and giving instruction for right living, (EGN)
Ang tibuok Kasulatan gisulat uban sa lamdag gikan sa Dios ug mapuslanon kini alang sa pagtudlo sa kamatuoran, sa pagbadlong, sa pagsaway, ug sa pagtudlo unsaon pagkinabuhig matarong, (CGN)


The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God [qeo/pneusto$] and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right. (TLB)

6. Inspiration guarantees the transfer of truth from God to man through men.

7. Inspiration is attributed only to the original manuscripts, all of which are lost.

8. Only the original manuscripts were the inspired, inerrant, infallible, confluent Word of God.

a. “Inspiration can only be predicated of the original writings, not to copies or translations, however accurate they may be.”
BASIC THEOLOGY, A Popular Systematic Guide To Understanding Biblical Truth, Charles C. Ryrie, page 72
Ó 1986 by SP Publications, Inc.

b. “Among the usage’s which have been noted, the orthodox view is commonly known as that of “verbal inspiration” or “verbal inerrancy” of the original writings.”
A Systematic Theology OF THE Christian Religion, J. OLIVER BUSWELL, page 187
Copyright Ó 1962 by Zondervan Publishing House

c. “The claim for verbal, plenary inspiration is made only for the original writings and does not extend to any transcriptions or translations.”
Systematic Theology, Volume I, Lewis Sperry Chafer, page 87
Copyright, 1947, by LEWIS SPERRY CHAFER

9. Inspiration relates to persons - God and man cooperated to produce inerrant and infallible truth, namely, the Bible.

10. Verbal, plenary inspiration includes these concepts;

a. inerrancy

b. infallibility

c. confluence
] INERRANCY (PAGKAWALAY SAYOP)

1. DEFINITION - the original manuscripts contain no mistakes; free from errors.

2. Inerrancy relates to the product of inspiration, namely, the Bible.

3. Truth is inerrant.

4.Copied truth is inerrant if copied accurately.

5. When a man applies copied truth to his life, the result is the same as if he were reading and applying truth from the inspired original manuscripts.

Principle: Accurate copies guarantee the inerrancy of copied information.

6. Inerrancy of copies demands the integrity of the copyist, NOT an inspired copyist.

7.Inerrancy of copies requires copies consistent with the originals.

8. Our copies are NOT consistent with each other. (Example: Romans 8:1)
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (KJV)

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, (NIV)

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (NAS)

9. Therefore, some copies are NOT consistent with the originals.

10. If some copies are NOT consistent with the originals, those inconsistent with the originals contain errors. (Example: Mark 16:16)

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (KJV)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. (NIV)

"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. (NAS)


Note: If you have your bible, turn to Mark 16:9 and see the (footnote) annotation if there is. My NASU version states that later mss add vv 9-20. This is an example of points 7 and 8 in the Inerrancy of the Bible.



11. The data of Scripture often includes the following:
·approximations
·free quotations
·language of appearances
·different accounts of the same occurrence

12. QUESTION - Can this kind of data support a definition of inerrancy as “being without error”?

13. “Obviously, the data and the definition must harmonize if that is a correct definition of what the Bible teaches about its own inerrancy. Perhaps the tension would be erased if we defined inerrancy positively--the inerrancy of the Bible means simply that the Bible tells the truth.
Truth can and does include approximations, free quotations, language of appearances and different accounts of the same occurrence as long as these do not contradict.”
BASIC THEOLOGY, A Popular Systematic Guide To Understanding Biblical Truth, Charles C. Ryrie, page 82
Ó 1986 by SP Publications, Inc.

INFALLIBILITY (DILI MASAYOP)

1. DEFINITION - the information contained in the original manuscript is incapable of leading a person astray from the plan of God.

2.Infallibility relates to the product of inspiration, namely, the Bible.

3. Truth is infallible.

4. Copied truth is infallible if copied accurately.

5. When a man applies copied truth to his life, the result is the same as if he were reading and applying truth from the inspired original manuscripts.

Principle: Accurate copies guarantee the infallibility of copied information.

6.Infallibility relies upon inerrancy.

7. Our copies are NOT inerrant.

8. Therefore, our copies are capable of producing fallible results. (the potential to lead someone away from the plan of God)

CONFLUENCE

1. DEFINITION - means the product of two free agents, divine and human (God and man).

2. The term confluence refers to the dual authorship of Scripture.

3. On the divine side, the Scriptures are the Word of God in the sense that they originate with Him and are the expression of His mind alone.

4.On the human side, certain men have been chosen of God for the high honor and responsibility of receiving God’s Word and transcribing it into written form.

5. The divine and human authorship are both without impairment to either, wholly present in every word from the first to the last.

6.The human side is rendered exceedingly complex by the fact that upwards of forty men participate in this incomparable service.

7.God has exerted His own power by thus working through many writers; yet He has preserved the unity of His revelation and, at the same time, demonstrated His control over men of varying degrees of authorship qualification.

8. The whole Bible is truly God’s word written by men.

FINAL COMMENTS ON INSPIRATION, INERRANCY, INFALLIBILITY

1.The original manuscripts were the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God.

2. Copies of the original manuscripts are NOT inspired, NOT inerrant and NOT infallible.

A. Not inspired: Inspiration does not produce inconsistent copies.

B. Not inerrant: Mark 16:16 is an error caused by scribal addition.

C.Not infallible: Mark 16:16 cannot produce salvation.

We Seek Truth!

osik osik lang ka og copy paste noy. ang shorycut nga tobag no is ang bible is inspired kay mao may sulti sa bible. hahahahahaha.

kong inspired pa ang original bible nganong nawala man lagi to.

[HALIKniHUDAS]

1. HOW CAN YOU BE SURE ITS THE WORD OF GOD? <--- First question ni Schmuck.

- Because the Bible tells us so.

2. BUT WHY BELIEVE THE BIBLE?

-The Bible is infallible.

3. BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW ITS INFALLIBLE?

-The Bible is the word of God.


There..mas klaro ang dagan..malibug tas picture ba kay circular..malipong ta hehe

The way the diagram was constructed is ironic actually, it sure do looks like a circular argumentation...only that it is precipitated to look like as it is presented..

The error was that the whole shebang was taken as a form of logic, which if one really try to understand, the Belief that 'the Bible is the word of God because it says so' should not be taken as logical proof..the trigger happy friend of our's hastily fires away his pistol..


1. We do not use logic and evidence to prove that the Bible is God's word. otherwise, the Bible is subject to logic and evidence. It is sufficient that God's word testifies of itself.

sigurado ka nya nganong ang mga apologists mogamit man og mga scientific evidence konohay nya mogamit pa og philosophy konohay to prove nga ang bible is God's word. tsk tsk....paeta ninyo oi. kong mangutana dayon mo og gamit logic to prove your point but kong mapiit mo gamit na pod mo og laing argument. hahahaha. ano ba talaga kuya? puti o pula? ayw na ta aning attempt nimo noy kay klaro kayo nga palosot.

2. This will not convince unbelievers, but the redeemed know the Bible is the word of God because Holy Spirit who lives in us bears witness to this truth.

3. We are enabled to know the truth of God's word because of the cross of Christ that brings us to a saving relationship with God who then lives in our hearts and reveals truth to us.

4. Christians know and trust God's word because they hear and know the voice of Jesus.

and kini nga mga tubag wala ni sa bible o naa? hahahaha...so balik gihapon ta sa circular reasoning toink! dili magsilbi ni noy. inyo ra tang lipat lipaton para motoo lang ta ana inyong bible.

5. John 10:1-4,27, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. 2 ''But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. 3 ''To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out. 4 ''When he puts forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me."

6. Christians know the voice of God because they know the voice of Christ.

1. His sheep hear His voice in the Bible and they know it is from Him.
2. The Bible is full of such statements as, "Thus says the Lord God...." and "The Lord has said..." and, "God declares..."

mao lagi gikan sa bible so mao gihapon circular reasoning.

3. The Bible assumes without defending itself, that it comes from God.
- Also, 2 Tim. 3:16 says, "All Scripture is inspired of God Inspiration is from God's heart and mind to the writers.
- Inspiration means that God is the author of the text.
- He has moved through the writer to communicate to us his truth and will. the Bible declares its own inspiration as it properly assumes its truth as coming from God.
- But, there are other reasons that we can look to the word of God to help us discover the evidences to demonstrate that it is from God.

ooops! oops! ooops! sa pagsowat ni timoti ani wala pa baya ang bible,ahahhhhahahaha pag sure mo oi.

[schmuck]

Existance,
Re: your reply

1. That doesn't make sense. Mugamit ang apologists og logic(kuno) to prove your god, pero kung i-disprove "We do not use logic and evidence" daun? lawls

2, 3, 4. Ni rely ka sa imong point 1. These things are mere assertions and can not be taken as true at face value(see Argument by Definition)

5. Again, circular reasoning ni. You don't use something to prove itself. By the same logic, pede ma assert nga tinoud ang LOTR, Harry Potter etc by simply using the books themselves as evidence.

6. See 2, 3, 4 and 5


nice try though.