Legalize Abortion?

[mannyamador]

No, in this particular discussion, I am using authority of Obama to justify s3x ed. and by justifying s3x ed, i am partly justifying the RH Bill.

Like I said, that is Argumentum ad Verecundiam, and justifies nothing.

Yes, Obama nor Congress are not scientific experts but they rely on scientific experts. ay sus political favors are a given.

That's still NOT a logical argument. But you did SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT AGAIN!

safer approach to s3x education based on Catholic dogma? remember, being predominantly Catholic doesn't make the Phils a Catholic country.

Have you forgotten how to read? Let me repeat:

THE SAFER APPROACH IS TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO CHOOSE.

but that is assuming all parents can well teach their kids that issue. Reality check: I don't think so. mao btaw naay concept of a 2nd home which is the school.

That's just your assumption. And it is irrelevant. You can't take away parents' rights just because you, Lagman, and some NGOs think they know better.

oh c'mon. I don't buy that scare tactic crap. even long before the RH Bill was even proposed, DepEd had already been bent on teaching *** education in the high schools.

You can make all the modules you like, but the point is THEY SHOULD NOT BE MANDATORY!

People have different values and thus different ideas on what should be taught to children about s3x. You cannot and should not IMPOSE JUST ONE IDEOLOGY on all schoolchildren. Parent's should be able to CHOOSE. Let the schools make their own programs and allow parents to choose which ones they want (or even let them pull their children out if they don't agree with the programs).

I thought you were all about choice? So why are you suppressing choice now? That's hyprociritical. It seems you only want choice when people can choose what you agree with, and you won't hesistate to suppress ideas different form your own!

and as what somebody said here, just take observation from the Catholic schools in Cebu as an example...if you are a true blue Cebuano, you will know what I'm talking about...

Again, your anecdotes CANNOT be the basis of sound public policy. It must be based on scientific evidence, not your biases. I was born and raised in Manila where there are many worse examples than STC, but that is NOT scientific evidence. Even if I were a rapist and you were a saint, that would not be relevant as far as determining what kind of education works. Our experiences are subjective and reflect only a very limited section of reality. That is why some people conduct scientific studies: to gather objective information. And the studies paint a different picture from what your prejudices give you.


When it comes to s3x education, parents should be allowed to choose.

As already noted, even supporters of the RH Bill object to the imposition of a single, mandatory s3x education program. Prof. Medalla is not a *****. I may not agree with everything he says, but at least thinks independently and does not swallow the pro-RH propaganda hook, line, and sinker. He and others have not been blinded by the RH ideology. He realized the totally wrong and coercive approach that the Bill's authors have taken when it comes to s3x education. And this shakes the credibility of your pro-RH side as well.

Parents do not have to be professional teachers to their kids. They can delegate that to teachers. But they should at least be allowed to inspect what is taught to their children about s3x and values and decide if they want their children to remain in a program or not. No one is saying that the Department of Education should not provide such modules, but they should not FORCE parents to accept them.

We should defend our rights and our democracy by rejecting the coercive, anti-life RH Bill.

The real issue here is whether we should allow government to IMPOSE a SINGLE way of thinking about one of the most personal issues facing persons: s3x and values. The real issue is: should parents determine what we should teach children, or the government?

PARENTS SHOULD BE GIVEN THE FINAL CHOICE IN WHAT THEIR CHILDREN ARE TAUGHT ABOUT S3X!




DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS! NO TO THE COERCIVE, ABORTION-PROMOTING RH BILL (HB 5043)!
Please sign the petition AGAINST the so-called Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)

[wakkanakka]

This thread is just a treasure trove of misinformation and propaganda from the Catholic propaganda machine.

Haaayy... some posts just don't contribute anything intelligent.

Ah the love of the hypocrites... so astounding and fantastic to behold...

Another holier-than-thou. As if you were any better. What a hypocrite!

@unsay_ngalan_nimo

NO to social double standards
NO to multiple burden of women
NO to violence against women
NO to hypocrisy

All that yelling and slogans won't convince anybody. Maybe if you make an intelligent contribution...

As always, the RH side is always good at making insults and getting personal, but they do not contribute any intelleigent arguments. Every time they try, they are refuted by the scientific evidences. sO they keep insulting catholics and others who are trying to help. As if that would make people join the RH side!

I am against those who will try to force us to make children take only one kind of *** education. That is against the rights of parents to choose the education of their child. That is against freedom of ideas. That is another reason why I am against this stupid RH bill.

The RH side keeps talking about choices, but they won't let people choose the education they think is right for their own children! That is hypocrisy.

YES TO FREEDOM. NO TO RH BILL.

[cebu-future]

Para dili mabuntis pirmi ang babae or your wife or your GF, use condom. Daghan nindot nga condom diha. YES TO RH BILL! Stop causing too much pain to women!

[wakkanakka]

i agree they make the rh bill synonymous with abortion but its really not...

I think it has already been proven with lots of evidences that the RH bill will fund abortifacient contraceptives.

Also, that Lagman himself does not believe in protecting the unborn from fertilization but only after implantation. That is also abortion if you kill the fertilized egg. And if you don't believe that, still you have to take thge safe way just to make sure you don't kill a human being. Obvious naman a!

But the RH side is too blinded by the ir own propaganda to even be reasonable. Insults tanan. No arguments.

[raski]

Para dili mabuntis pirmi ang babae or your wife or your GF, use condom. Daghan nindot nga condom diha. YES TO RH BILL! Stop causing too much pain to women!

Haha amen cebu-future. Condoms for happy time. YES to RH Bill. No to prudes.

[raski]

Haaayy... some posts just don't contribute anything intelligent.

I agree with this completely, now that you've posted.

Another holier-than-thou. As if you were any better. What a hypocrite!

That's the Catholic church, not me.

@unsay_ngalan_nimo


All that yelling and slogans won't convince anybody. Maybe if you make an intelligent contribution...

You should tell that to Manny Amador.

As always, the RH side is always good at making insults and getting personal, but they do not contribute any intelleigent arguments. Every time they try, they are refuted by the scientific evidences. sO they keep insulting catholics and others who are trying to help. As if that would make people join the RH side!

Everybody has resorted to this from both sides because this is naturally a contentious issue and because everybody feels they have the interests of the country at stake. Even you have done it at least 3 times in that post of yours, so please if you're going to accuse people of getting personal shut up and look in the mirror!

I am against those who will try to force us to make children take only one kind of *** education. That is against the rights of parents to choose the education of their child. That is against freedom of ideas. That is another reason why I am against this stupid RH bill.

I am against the anti-women sadists who want to keep our birthrate high because of some false and misplaced sense of morality. We men will not suffer by the failure of passage of this RH bill but make no mistake that if the Church has its way it is the women who will suffer with multiple unplanned pregnancies. And for people who ostensibly care about the poor babies killed by abortion, none of you hypocrites seem to care much about the unwanted babies who will end up being born and thrown out into the street to beg for scraps. Where is the Catholic church when you need them most. Where are they when these kids seek shelter within the walls of our many majestic churches? Why do priests not allow them to live inside the church? After all it is their policy that is one of the direct causes of the explosion in the number of street kids around.

When will the Church take responsibility for their irresponsible stance on population issues? If they want more babies to be born and our population to continue to expand, straining alreaady scarce resources they should be at the forefront of ensuring that no children suffer needlessly from their evil anti-human policies... Their stance is akin to child abuse, and as a result I support the RH bill so we can stop these hooligans from bullying us and our representatives in government!

The RH side keeps talking about choices, but they won't let people choose the education they think is right for their own children! That is hypocrisy.

YES TO FREEDOM. NO TO RH BILL.

Nobody is going to stop parents from giving their children an opposing view. Schools are already mandated to teach that the world is round, but that doesn't stop parents at home from telling their kids the world is flat (which is in fact what the Catholic church did at one time, by threatening to put Galileo to the question at Inquisition)...

[wakkanakka]

You should tell that to Manny Amador.

I'm telling it to YOU because you are the one still doing it. And in a few posts you have thrown more insults than anyone else here in the last day. But then suppose we change this kind of exchange?

Everybody has resorted to this from both sides because this is naturally a contentious issue and because everybody feels they have the interests of the country at stake.

So do you want to keep doing it or do you want to improve the discussion? Do you agree to change it?

We men will not suffer by the failure of passage of this RH bill but make no mistake that if the Church has its way it is the women who will suffer with multiple unplanned pregnancies.

I disagree. I think a lot of evidences has already been posted showing that contraceptives on a large scale don't reduce the unwanted pregnancies. And that it will increase abortions.

And for people who ostensibly care about the poor babies killed by abortion, none of you hypocrites seem to care much about the unwanted babies who will end up being born and thrown out into the street to beg for scraps.

I don't think so. The Church is doing just as much as anyone to help the poor. Even more! And the prolife people also have progams for the poor. I saw, for exmaple, Welcome House in Colon and Kahupayan center for women in Sto. Rosario Church. There are very many things that they do so it is totall yuntrue and alie to claim that they don't care about children who are born.

It is congressmen like Lagman with their pork barrel and junkets, who waste money on contracetpives while poeple die of other TB, cancer, and other sicknesses, its's them who don't care about thiose who are born.

obody is going to stop parents from giving their children an opposing view.

Yes but the RH bill will force parents to make their kids attend those mandatory *** education classes. They won't even let schools choose what to teach.

*** and morals is not a set and decided thing like the roundness of the earth. There are many equally good views on this issue and no one should impose their will just because they have the police power to do so. That is what democracy is about: free ideas and no government-enforced propaganda. If the RH side wants to teach their contraceptivce *** education, let them, but DON'T FORCE IT DOWN OUR THROATS!

So, can we agree to improve our discussion, or do you just want to keep throwing insults? We can agree to keeping things "civil" or you can go your usual way. But I prefer we do it with respect. OK? So, I will apologize to you first -- right now. Shake! OK?

Then if we do this, maybe @mannyamador and @giddyboy will also change their style. Won't that be better for all? Naks, peacebroker na me!

[raski]

I'm telling it to YOU because you are the one still doing it. And in a few posts you have thrown more insults than anyone else here in the last day. But then suppose we change this kind of exchange?

So do you want to keep doing it or do you want to improve the discussion? Do you agree to change it?

It's a little too late for that, this entire thread was doomed from the beginning because it was created not with the intention of fostering discussion but for spreading propaganda. Do you honestly think anyone is going to change their mind especially the OP?

Next, you posted more insults in ONE POST than I could ever dream to do in this entire thread. So shut up about that already will you, your hypocrisy is absolutely amazing even to the Pope!

I disagree. I think a lot of evidences has already been posted showing that contraceptives on a large scale don't reduce the unwanted pregnancies. And that it will increase abortions.

Please try to at least proofread what you write for basic grammar because it can be a bit troubling to read "a lot of evidences" from someone who is supposedly educated...

Those "evidences" are not double-blind nor are they confirmed research, as such they cannot be called evidence but merely biased opinions masquerading as scientific studies.

I don't think so. The Church is doing just as much as anyone to help the poor. Even more! And the prolife people also have progams for the poor. I saw, for exmaple, Welcome House in Colon and Kahupayan center for women in Sto. Rosario Church. There are very many things that they do so it is totall yuntrue and alie to claim that they don't care about children who are born.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree, I see no evidence of these programs making a difference. Every year the number of street kids begging on the streets increases, and every year the Church continues to parrot the same lies that lead to the increase in number.

It is congressmen like Lagman with their pork barrel and junkets, who waste money on contracetpives while poeple die of other TB, cancer, and other sicknesses, its's them who don't care about thiose who are born.

Giving money to the Church so it can build expensive places of worship and so it can remit money to the Pope is better? How? And don't be biased and say the money is going to God...

Yes but the RH bill will force parents to make their kids attend those mandatory *** education classes. They won't even let schools choose what to teach.

So what? They are made to attend all kinds of mandatory classes already anyway. The entire curriculum is mandatory! This point of contention is anchored on a ridiculous notion that schools shouldn't have mandatory courses. Maybe you should homeschool your child then? Nobody is stopping you...

*** and morals is not a set and decided thing like the roundness of the earth. There are many equally good views on this issue and no one should impose their will just because they have the police power to do so. That is what democracy is about: free ideas and no government-enforced propaganda. If the RH side wants to teach their contraceptivce *** education, let them, but DON'T FORCE IT DOWN OUR THROATS!

So you trust the Church which could not even get something as simple as the Earth being round, with a topic so much more complex and riddled with nuances and points of disagreement? That defies logic.

So, can we agree to improve our discussion, or do you just want to keep throwing insults? We can agree to keeping things "civil" or you can go your usual way. But I prefer we do it with respect. OK? So, I will apologize to you first -- right now. Shake! OK?

It's unfortunate you are not being sincere and are clearly writing that only so you can create the illusion that you are above the fray. If you wanted to be taken seriously, you should not have entered this discussion with guns blazing and insults blaring. Since you already have, you've squandered any possibility of being a peacebroker or mediator and should just drop the pretense and say outright that you are a spokesperson for the Church and will viciously attack anyone who opposes your narrow world-view. That is more accurate, methinks.

Then if we do this, maybe @mannyamador and @giddyboy and *wakawaka* will also change their style. Won't that be better for all? Naks, peacebroker na me!

Again corrected.

[mannyamador]

It's a little too late for that, this entire thread was doomed from the beginning because it was created not with the intention of fostering discussion but for spreading propaganda. Do you honestly think anyone is going to change their mind especially the OP?
...
say outright that you are a spokesperson for the Church and will viciously attack anyone who opposes your narrow world-view. That is more accurate, methinks.

No point in engaging a closed-minded fanatic like raski here, wakkanakka.

They are made to attend all kinds of mandatory classes already anyway. The entire curriculum is mandatory!

Wrong. Not in private schools. They have much leeway in determining what to teach. Have you actually even read the bill? It imposes a single centrally planned curriculum on ALL schools. Quite totalitarian actually.

So you trust the Church which could not even get something as simple as the Earth being round,

The Church never had any dogma denying the roundness of the earth. A great number of uneducated people may have thought so, but it was never a doctrine of the Church. Where in the world do you get such ignorant fantasies?


Tsk, tsk... Someone was man enough to APOLOGIZE (thereby acknowledging his error) to you and offer you peace and fruitful discussion, but you weren't man enough to accept it. And to think you were preaching about turning the other cheek, eh? So be it. If you think you will convince more people to support the RH Bill with your arrogant and childish behavior, please go right ahead.


More info on abstinence and purity education for the youth at
True Love Waits Philippines

NO TO THE ABORTION-PROMOTING RH BILL!
Please sign the petition AGAINST the so-called Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)

[raski]

No point in engaging a closed-minded fanatic like raski here, wakkanakka.



Wrong. Not in private schools. They have much leeway in determining what to teach. Have you actually even read the bill? It imposes a single centrally planned curriculum on ALL schools. Quite totalitarian actually.



The Church never had any dogma denying the roundness of the earth. A great number of uneducated people may have thought so, but it was never a doctrine of the Church. Where in the world do you get such ignorant fantasies?


Tsk, tsk... Someone was man enough to APOLOGIZE (thereby acknowledging his error) to you and offer you peace and fruitful discussion, but you weren't man enough to accept it. And to think you were preaching about turning the other cheek, eh? So be it. If you think you will convince more people to support the RH Bill with your arrogant and childish behavior, please go right ahead.


More info on abstinence and purity education for the youth at
True Love Waits Philippines

NO TO THE ABORTION-PROMOTING RH BILL!
Please sign the petition AGAINST the so-called Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043)

Mannyamador don't make me laugh. You of all people calling anyone a fanatic is the height of hilarity. I think you with your incessant posting of lies and misinformation, and your posting on your blog that women wearing bikinis being demeaning to women in general, puts you in the same league as the Taliban. Go live in Afghanistan, that country will suit religious lunatics like yourself quite well.

And do get laid at least once in your life, I guarantee you won't regret it. If you have to be married before doing it, then stop wasting your time arguing with me on the forums and go get a woman stupid enough to marry you so you can start having s3x.