Pagan Origins of the Christian Faith (Phil. Daily Inquirer)

[handsoff241]

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let's leave it to the evidence kept as reference by the author of the pagan history books.

That was what I was asking for, have you seen, at least, the evidence referred to by the author and authenticate it yourself?

Every belief; be it theist or atheist, has the tendency to be proven otherwise of what they are initially thought to be. Having to witness it yourself, the indisputable truth naked in front of you, would be a great drive for such people (theist and atheist) to pursue arguments.

My question again is, did any of you(this again goes for theist and atheist) happen to have made a real-time confirmation of the empirical evidence referred by the authors themselves?

[NASYO]

My question again is, did any of you(this again goes for theist and atheist) happen to have made a real-time confirmation of the empirical evidence referred by the authors themselves?

I haven't seen it.
pero "Bulahan ang nitu-o nga wala makakita.."

[miyay]

That was what I was asking for, have you seen, at least, the evidence referred to by the author and authenticate it yourself?

Every belief; be it theist or atheist, has the tendency to be proven otherwise of what they are initially thought to be. Having to witness it yourself, the indisputable truth naked in front of you, would be a great drive for such people (theist and atheist) to pursue arguments.

My question again is, did any of you(this again goes for theist and atheist) happen to have made a real-time confirmation of the empirical evidence referred by the authors themselves?

in denial, ta? read a bit of history outside the judeo-christianity context, you'll find a wealth of info on "gods" like those mentioned by reg who died and rose again. christianity is not so very old after all. what's 2,000 years to 60,000 plus odd years of human history. many religions have been buried in antiquity. but just the same, the truth could be so universal that human experience (e.g. religion) repeats itself.

[handsoff241]

"Bulahan ang nitu-o nga wala makakita.."

Then what is with all the commotion?

[handsoff241]

@Miyay, before I respond to your post, please consider rephrasing it. I believe you have taken me in a bit wrong way.

[josephdc]

So, the god Mithras in Persia, the god Dionysius in Greece, the god Osiris in Egypt are all copied from chrisitanity? wahahaha kataw-anan sa history!

Pag tsur uy!

I didn't say these pagan religions came to exist after Christianity. Obviously, they existed long before Christianity. What I'm saying is that I believe accounts of "dying and rising gods" did not appear until around the 3rd or 4th century AD. That's what Mettinger found out with his study. It's the "nearly universal" consensus of the modern scholars who studied that topic. That means that, if anything, these religions may have been the ones who were influenced by Christanity's beliefs and not the other way around.

[josephdc]

wow grabe pd kag assumption josephdc ha..well imoha sad na..but i think if si mettinger ra imong source..sa kani na conclusion then i think you should find a neutral source..a history book perhaps..nga walay bias..infos based on existing evidences..

I think that in one way or another bro we all have our own biases. One of the sources for the idea that Christianity has Pagan roots is the movie Zeitgeist. It's not exactly a neutral film. Its creators have a message to impart. I think the real question here is whether there is really any truth to its, or Mettinger's, claims.

But, in the first place bro, Mettinger wasn't really making all that up. He was making a sort of survey of those modern scholars who studied the topic of ancient mythology. That wasn't simply his opinion. In fact, as Strobel's book pointed out, his opinion was slightly different. He took the minority view and said that there were at least 3 and as many as 5 "dying and rising gods" before Christianity. But he concluded that none of these accounts were actual parallels to the Christian story.

"They are far different from the reports of Jesus rising from the dead. They occurred in the unspecified and distant past and were usually related to the seasonal life-and-death cycle of vegetation. In contrast, Jesus’ resurrection isn’t repeated, isn’t related to changes in the seasons, and was sincerely believed to be an actual event by those who lived in the same generation of the historical Jesus. In addition, Mettinger concludes that 'there is no evidence for the death of the dying and rising gods as vicarious suffering for sins.'" -- Michael Licona on Mettinger

Other than Mettinger, there's also Edwin Yamauchi, Ben Witherington III, and Michael Licona. These guys have the credentials and actually studied these topics. Yamauchi, for example, has a doctorate in Mediterranean studies and is an expert on Mithraism.

[josephdc]

I see, so all of us here rely on other people's books and findings and was not able to confirm the information we have been using by ourselves or atleast by a direct/immediate group. Another war on the agreement of who is to be generally agreed upon. *sigh.

That's all we can do bro, appeal to authorities, because we're not experts ourselves...

But let's not take their word for it, we must also consider whether they have the credentials to back up their claims.

[munzter666]

There's a book that tries to answer these claims, The Case For the Real Jesus by Lee Stroebel.

The book mentions a scholar, T. N. D. Mettinger, who wrote a book (The Riddle of Resurrection) about dying and rising gods in antiquity. His conclusion is that modern scholars have a nearly universal consensus that accounts of dying and rising gods actually post-date Christianity. So it's not true that Christianity "copied" these religions. If anything, these religions may have been the ones who copied Christianity.

unfortunately....those mentioned above PREDATES Christianity. so who's copying who?
them JEWS were enslaved by them "pagans", a simple case of writers block and the easiest solution involves copyright issues.

[josephdc]

^ You're right bro, pagan mystery religions pre-date Christianity. See my response to Regnauld's post.