A simple challenge for those who claim they like topics related to space exploration

[rodsky]

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1. elliptical orbit is easier because if you are trying to achieve a circular orbit, the velocity and fuel burning you will need has to be very accurate. If you burn fuel a little to much, elliptical na dayon, a little to less, elliptical na pud dayon. if this is the case, aw, mas sayon cguro mag achieve nalang elliptical orbit.

Very good answer! Actually, the answer is more detailed than that, because not only does the burn need to be "very accurate", you need to constantly make very fine changes in pitch (relative to the local horizon, in this case, Earth horizon) just to make sure that you arrive at a circular orbit, and yes, these changes in pitch can be very demanding (esp. if the spacecraft/rocket is being flown manually!) and needs a high degree of accuracy in order to ensure an orbit with the least eccentricity (nearly circular). On the other hand, if you launch a rocket that does not have the sophisticated pitch corrections needed to achieve a circular orbit, then all you need is a timer that changes pitch at measured intervals while the rocket is trying to achieve orbit, and when fuel nears zero, all you need to ensure is that the pitch angle (the orientation of the nose of the rocket with respect to the horizon) should be zero.

2. Earth is not a perfect sphere to begin with.. naa cguro changes in gravitational pull (small maybe).

Correct, but too small (i.e. negligible) to matter.

3. Earth is also rotating around the sun and has velocity - assuming ari ta sa equator dapit mo orbit.

Sun has negligible influence in this exercise.

4. Gravity from other bodies like moon might also affect orbit.

Same answer with sun.

All in all, a pretty good answer Will supplement your answer with my illustrations later.

-RODION

[Hellblazer 2.1]

naa nay nakatubag ug sakto?

[bluedes]

A good answer, but insufficient explanation to clearly illustrate the situation. I agree that mathematics can answer the question, no doubt about that, but if you ask the person next to you here in this thread, if he understood what you meant, do you think he/she would?

There lies the difference between you and me. You want to show the answer, but are reluctant to show to others (here in iStorya) why the answer should be that answer (and instead offer the "nice" excuse of "it's all in the math"), and on the other hand, I also want to show the answer, by via the use of various methods of analogy and illustrations/diagrams designed for those who are not technically inclined, nor well-versed with the math aspect of the problem.

I'm still waiting for randzg's answer. By 6pm today, I shall post my answer + diagrams/illustrations to demonstrate it.

-RODION

huh? oh, oh, mr. rodsky dear.. i'm not the one trying to appear "intelligent" here.
and why the heck would i be reluctant to show the answer? dili man tawn ko hakog ug nahibaw-an oi. just because i don't have the images (or "visual aid") to back up my explanation doesn't mean my explanation is difficult to understand. basig ikaw ra naglisud ug sabot ato.


however in fairness, mao lng ni ako i-contribute to further the answers: the crucial advantage of an elliptical orbit is its inherent mathematical properties compared to a circular one. and for those who are afraid of mathematics, probably because their highschool (or elementary) teachers were also afraid of it, there's nothing complicated about it at all. there are just inherent geometrical properties of an ellipse shape compared to a circle shape. and you can exploit that property to your advantage when you apply that in an astronomical problem like this one. the beauty of this approach is that when you have a different problem, and you're still dealing with an elliptical situation, the properties will still hold. and therefore, the same advantage you took to solve the astronomical problem can also be applied, for example, in communications satellite dishes--where the dish is an ellipse in shape. go figure!

for the gory details.. like i always say, if you're truly interested, you will dig them up. spoon-feed approach is just not my style.

maghuwat na lng ko.. mutuyok ra ang kalibutan..

[rodsky]

naa nay nakatubag ug sakto?

randzg's was quite close.

-RODION

[Hellblazer 2.1]

randzg's was quite close.

-RODION

you must be enjoying this, mr.rodsky.

[bluedes]

geeeshh...these stuff could be learned in a small while but even the simulation of doing the whole duration of the shuttle's mission could take me years to master....astronauts do deserve their big paychecks...

imagine being stuck in space for months on end far far away from home and civilization. astronauts are like seamen na nag-enroll ug nautical sa UC. they also have big paychecks compared to others working an 8-hour job. and kailangan pud ka ug perseverance na di ka type na mingawon, just like the seamen. that's the closest analogy i have heard..

[rodsky]

huh? oh, oh, mr. rodsky dear.. i'm not the one trying to appear "intelligent" here.
and why the heck would i be reluctant to show the answer? dili man tawn ko hakog ug nahibaw-an oi. just because i don't have the images (or "visual aid") to back up my explanation doesn't mean my explanation is difficult to understand. basig ikaw ra naglisud ug sabot ato.


however in fairness, mao lng ni ako i-contribute to further the answers: the crucial advantage of an elliptical orbit is its inherent mathematical properties compared to a circular one. and for those who are afraid of mathematics, probably because their highschool (or elementary) teachers were also afraid of it, there's nothing complicated about it at all. there are just inherent geometrical properties of an ellipse shape compared to a circle shape. and you can exploit that property to your advantage when you apply that in an astronomical problem like this one. the beauty of this approach is that when you have a different problem, and you're still dealing with an elliptical situation, the properties will still hold. and therefore, the same advantage you took to solve the astronomical problem can also be applied, for example, in communications satellite dishes--where the dish is an ellipse in shape. go figure!

for the gory details.. like i always say, if you're truly interested, you will dig them up. spoon-feed approach is just not my style.

maghuwat na lng ko.. mutuyok ra ang kalibutan..

Compare these two approaches.

Your approach to teaching the principle will teach someone the math/trig behind the process, but it will never really teach anyone how to reach orbit, and see the difficulty of achieving a stable circular orbit.

My approach however, will allow someone to download a simulator, such as Orbiter: Space Flight Simulator from this website: ORBITER Download and then they can actually apply what I've said/discussed, in order to successfully reach LEO manually, and see for themselves the difficulty of achieving a stable circular orbit, as compared to the relative ease of an elliptical one.

Ergo, we see two different approaches here--your approach is purely for the sake of distributing information, which is all good, and I respect your knowledge in that, and bid you good luck in teaching people about topics such as these. However, my approach seeks to actually teach someone how a rocket/spaceship can reach LEO (or any other body in the solar system for that matter) using a highly accurate, freely available simulator.

A lot of people out there try to download Orbiter and give up after an hour of failing to reach Orbit, and then realize it's because they have difficulty in visualizing why the can't reach orbit. However, in a venue such as this thread, where we actually discuss and tackle the subject matter, by presenting examples and depicting the situation via illustrations and diagrams rather than formula and principles, there is a more "practical" feel to the method, and as shown in some studies concerning learning and education, learning via the practical, more visual method (rather than a bookish, abstract one) is quite efficient in the delivery of ideas...for you, it might sound like "spoonfeeding"...but for me, I see it as just a more practical approach to enable the average person to appreciate and understand the complexities of space flight, by actually experiencing the principles behind it first-hand, via a very realistic and accurate simulator.

-RODION

[bluedes]

Your approach to teaching the principle will teach someone the math/trig behind the process, but it will never really teach anyone how to reach orbit, and see the difficulty of achieving a stable circular orbit.

My approach however, will allow someone to download Orbiter: Space Flight Simulator from this website: ORBITER Download and then they can actually apply what I've said/discussed, in order to successfully reach LEO manually, and see for themselves the difficulty of achieving a stable circular orbit, as compared to the relative ease of an elliptical one.

Ergo, we see two different approaches here--your approach is purely for the sake of distributing information, which is all good, and I respect your knowledge in that. However, my approach seeks to actually teach someone how a rocket/spaceship can reach LEO (or any other body in the solar system for that matter) using a highly accurate, freely available simulator.

sorry parts, my guidance counselor taught me never to compare people to myself. that will only lead to self-loathing or self-pride.

besides, you are standing on subjective ground. i teach from a mathematical-astronomical perspective because that is the way i learned these things. if you have a problem with that, then so be it. i don't bash away at your physics-astronomical perspective, so respeto-anay lng ta dire.

[rodsky]

sorry parts, my guidance counselor taught me never to compare people to myself. that will only lead to self-loathing or self-pride.

besides, you are standing on subjective ground. i teach from a mathematical-astronomical perspective because that is the way i learned these things. if you have a problem with that, then so be it. i don't bash away at your physics-astronomical perspective, so respeto-anay lng ta dire.

My comparison was not intended to show a negative nor a positive in your method or my methods (kinsa nang ga-overreact karon?), but merely illustrate what you want to share to the people here , and what I want to share to the readers of iStorya.net, and as clearly as can be seen, we both have different reasons why we like to contribute to this thread.

As for me, I'm personally simply waiting for the first person to actually download Orbiter and show me directly via screenshots, how he/she managed to reach LEO, and did he/she attempt a circular or elliptical one. That is all I'm waiting for.

-RODION

[Hellblazer 2.1]

dili diay pwede mo-align ang shuttle sa ISS's path of orbit? and once aligned, the shuttle will just accelerate its thrusters and fire retro jets to "hit the brakes" and then dock.