CALL CENTERS: Labor Unions are watching...

[LytSlpr]

Therefore among call center employees (except for a few who has complaints) collectively there is no motivation to form one.

with a pay 3 times better and even more than just a minimum wage earner... most probably call center employees will just ignore those annoying management people.

you know what? this also crossed my mind but when i thought of PAL & BPI unions a couple of years ago, i thought di ra gyud di'ay ang sweldo basehan sa mga tawo. daghan pa ug factors, pwde sweldo, pwede patakaran, kahimtang sa panarbaho, mga benepisyo, etc.. ang pwede ma rason para mag tukod ug union.

[brian_d]

PAL and BPI employees are oldies who came from a generation when LIFETIME EMPLOYMENT was the thing. Siempre when thier tenure is threatened they really have no choice but to form UNIONS.

FYI lang, PAL and BPI have low starting salaries, just slightly above minimum. Okay hinoon ang benefits nila. Why did you go to DOLE by the way? You're with HR? Or naa na sad ka reklamo with your current employer? Heehe

Ingon ani ra na ka simple:

1. How many percent of call center employees are aggrieved? 50%? I doubt it. Siguro 10% max. The rest are doing quite well. Why would they sign up for a UNION?

2. Are there complaints for non-payment or delayed salary? Or non payment of night premiums?
Call Centers pay above law required night premium. Ranging from 15%-30%.

3. Are there any violation of minimum wages?
Call Center employees are paid at least 12k a month.

4. Are govt. mandated benefits withheld?
No, in fact benefits to include allowances, health coverage (HMO), rice allowances and other bonuses are one of the most generous compared to other industries.

5. Is the culture repressive?
Call centers are made up young people, and call center corporate culture is basically collegiate, open door and most probably flat in structure.

TRUE, naa'y mga SALBAHIS nga TL. But hey, bisan asa ka work naa man gyud na. You can't avoid them. Maybe YOU should be the one EXPOSING your true motives LytSlpr. Why are you sooo adamant that UNIONS be formed in CALL CENTERS? Para himoong milking cow sa mga UNION group sa Pilipinas? Dagko gud sueldo, daghan pa gyud. Whatever you're advocating, am still telling you, there are other LABOR SECTORS that are in dire need of your assistance in the formation of thier UNION.

Btw, to answer your question. Why in the U.S. people, even management are not averse to UNIONS? And why the opposite in the Philippines?

In the U.S. Unions are quite aware that they work in a CAPITALIST SYSTEM, and they have to work within the system to have a mutually beneficial relationship with the company. Meaning keep the company profitable while ensuring workers rights are protected and decent standard of living is guaranteed.

In the Philippines, Unions by nature are Marxist in orientation. ANTI CAPITALIST, anti Business. Siempre, companies would be adverse to such interest. Who wouldn't be, when all the UNION wants is to make companies MILKING COW for thier PROPAGANDA/POLITICAL ACTIVITES, not necessarily to the interest of its members.

VP in ten years time? POSSIBLE! The way my carreer is going. =)

Was just reminding you of some lectures/basic principles in Management/Human Behavior/Psychology that you must have forgotten in class. Or maybe you were to busy complaining, attending rallies that time. hehehe.

Am all for intellectual discussion, problem is you don't address the issues being presented to you.

TUBAGA NI! If you're really for protection of laborers in this country. WHY NOT ADVOCATE FOR FORMATION OF UNIONS AMONG TINDERA'S IN GAISANO and MEPZ employees?

[bfg9000]

@brian_d

Just curious... why wait until you have a problem before you form a union ? Why not form one now before you need one? Diba an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure?

[LytSlpr]

PAL and BPI employees are oldies who came from a generation when LIFETIME EMPLOYMENT was the thing. Siempre when thier tenure is threatened they really have no choice but to form UNIONS.

FYI lang, PAL and BPI have low starting salaries, just slightly above minimum. Okay hinoon ang benefits nila. Why did you go to DOLE by the way? You're with HR? Or naa na sad ka reklamo with your current employer? Heehe

Ingon ani ra na ka simple:

1. How many percent of call center employees are aggrieved? 50%? I doubt it. Siguro 10% max. The rest are doing quite well. Why would they sign up for a UNION?

2. Are there complaints for non-payment or delayed salary? Or non payment of night premiums?
Call Centers pay above law required night premium. Ranging from 15%-30%.

3. Are there any violation of minimum wages?
Call Center employees are paid at least 12k a month.

4. Are govt. mandated benefits withheld?
No, in fact benefits to include allowances, health coverage (HMO), rice allowances and other bonuses are one of the most generous compared to other industries.

5. Is the culture repressive?
Call centers are made up young people, and call center corporate culture is basically collegiate, open door and most probably flat in structure.

TRUE, naa'y mga SALBAHIS nga TL. But hey, bisan asa ka work naa man gyud na. You can't avoid them. Maybe YOU should be the one EXPOSING your true motives LytSlpr. Why are you sooo adamant that UNIONS be formed in CALL CENTERS? Para himoong milking cow sa mga UNION group sa Pilipinas? Dagko gud sueldo, daghan pa gyud. Whatever you're advocating, am still telling you, there are other LABOR SECTORS that are in dire need of your assistance in the formation of thier UNION.

Btw, to answer your question. Why in the U.S. people, even management are not averse to UNIONS? And why the opposite in the Philippines?

In the U.S. Unions are quite aware that they work in a CAPITALIST SYSTEM, and they have to work within the system to have a mutually beneficial relationship with the company. Meaning keep the company profitable while ensuring workers rights are protected and decent standard of living is guaranteed.

In the Philippines, Unions by nature are Marxist in orientation. ANTI CAPITALIST, anti Business. Siempre, companies would be adverse to such interest. Who wouldn't be, when all the UNION wants is to make companies MILKING COW for thier PROPAGANDA/POLITICAL ACTIVITES, not necessarily to the interest of its members.

Btw, am a manager now I should be a Director at least in ten years time. Ikaw?

First, I was already a manager & ALREADY a director now. Â*I went to DOLE to see if their annual assessment of us being employers and okay and indeed it was. We also have production workers, the few lucky ones in one of the cities in Cebu, BTW. They get the minimum wage unlike other much, much bigger factories here. That pays by the peice 100-150 a day. We will also be providing them with housing and that is in-house, not with SSS, Pag-Ibig or whatever.

First, I am not advocating unions. It's you who is advocating the illness of unions in general. I am just concerned of one sector. I am not like and activist that you probably picture me to be. in fact i am an entrepreneur, capitalist or a suit in your lingo.

Just stop giving sarcastic personal comments coz I never was personal with anybody here even during the start of this thread. Â*If you want to ger personal, I'm game. Â*While you're at it try checking out who I am so that you won't regret what you might do.

As I've said, DO NOT GENERALIZE UNIONS. Unions are become worst or extorionist as how members want them to be regardless of what country. You are generalizing facts. Probably, it's you who looked over things.

[brian_d]

Theoritically that's possible and in fact possibley sound to form one at this point and FYI, am not against UNIONS am all for protection of workers.

ALL AM SAYING IS: When you look at the FACTS and CONDITIONS within the call center industry. DILI PA GYUD SYA FEASIBLE at this point. Like I've said maybe in the FUTURE WHEN this employees and the industry itself has matured.

It's just a matter of analyzing the situation and coming up with a realistic assessment of outcomes. Mura ra gud ug mo-ingon nga, THE CALL CENTER INDUSTRY IN CEBU will grow by 200% in 2006? Feasible or not? Theoritically YES, but in reality? MEDYO LISOD. Look at labor supply, infrastucture, availability of space. Siguro 50% growth puede.

Just presenting the facts, that's all. Some people just have a hard time comprehending that. =)

[LytSlpr]

@brian_d

Just curious... why wait until you have a problem before you form a union ? Why not form one now before you need one? Diba an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure?

my point exactly! Â*naa siguro ni siya'y unionophobia. ...and however a union is run, that depends on the members and the problem of the management or the proper agencies or the courts or the police.

if you generally think that unions are not beneficial to anyone or bad, then that is your opinion and it's just like suggesting that our lawmakers should go back to school because it is in our constitution.

[LytSlpr]

Theoritically that's possible and in fact possibley sound to form one at this point and FYI, am not against UNIONS am all for protection of workers.

ALL AM SAYING IS: When you look at the FACTS and CONDITIONS within the call center industry. DILI PA GYUD SYA FEASIBLE at this point. Like I've said maybe in the FUTURE WHEN this employees and the industry itself has matured.

It's just a matter of analyzing the situation and coming up with a realistic assessment of outcomes. Mura ra gud ug mo-ingon nga, THE CALL CENTER INDUSTRY IN CEBU will grow by 200% in 2006? Feasible or not? Theoritically YES, but in reality? MEDYO LISOD. Look at labor supply, infrastucture, availability of space. Siguro 50% growth puede.

Just presenting the facts, that's all. Some people just have a hard time comprehending that. =)

if it's impossible or difficult at this point sir then why did DOLE & TUCP said that almost na gyud. the DOLE officer that i talked to investigated a call center in Mandaue and Cebu Business Park.Â* the TUCP officer that emailed me shared that the employees that approached them were from call centers in Libis & Mandaluyong.Â* that means that this very same people will always try and i don't think it will even take 5 years from now or even before the BPO industry has matured.Â* probably, to safeguard the welfare of the call center employees and share employee welfare status, they should put up an association just like the association of BPO companies.Â* In the process, they will be more educatedÂ* there and gather enough strength and numbers and the rest is history because DEFINITELY there is really something to form A UNION about.

[brian_d]

Well I'm for LMC's, Labor Management Council. Or kung mag UNION man gani those without any AFFILIATION from groups like you've mentioned above. Lisod na kung apilan ug politika.

No industry will mature that fast. The way its growing right now (at double digit figures) it will take time for growth to stabilize and more the industry to create enough sustanable labor base and expertise. Just look at the attrition rate in call centers.

You're an entrepreneur you say? Got employees on your payroll? Well you better take good care of them, because you know what I don't think you'll be too friendly of UNIONS once they gang up on you and your employees form one of thier own.

[LytSlpr]

Well I'm for LMC's, Labor Management Council. Or kung mag UNION man gani those without any AFFILIATION from groups like you've mentioned above. Lisod na kung apilan ug politika.

No industry will mature that fast. The way its growing right now (at double digit figures) it will take time for growth to stabilize and more the industry to create enough sustanable labor base and expertise. Just look at the attrition rate in call centers.

You're an entrepreneur you say? Got employees on your payroll? Well you better take good care of them, because you know what I don't think you'll be too friendly of UNIONS once they gang up on you and your employees form one of thier own.

LMC is a good but unfortunately call centers does not allow that as well.Â* Picture this, you and your colleague are eating in the pantry and talking or more of questioning some obvious deviation in procedure or fair working practice and somebody from HR or management or someone from production who is sipsip to the mangement overheard your conversation, for that alone you can already be in hot water. I had a colleague who was actually issued a grave warning for that.Â* It's like working in a classy concentration camp.Â* It's more of don't think nor speak. Just listen and do. ...and do it fast!

Call centers should also mature in Labor Relations not only in production because the way I see it and when I worked for one, they don't really care as long as production and hiring is okay because for them attrition rate is constant.Â* People there are simply just commodity, murag mga machines.Â* It's like work hard boy we are paying your 3 times as much and when you conk out we have a superb HMO benefit for you, afterwhich go back to work you sluggard!Â* as if the number of Lines of Businesses they gave the agent is not enough, on top off the AHT, QA rates, CSAT rates are not enough and they give the same salary rate and even better incentives to the teams with relatively easier jobs.Â* These are just a few of many issues that we raised that were never answered.

In our own company most of our employees have an average of 7-8 years with us the supervisory and management positions are 15, some even 20 years.Â* We also encourage our employees to speak up then we compromise.Â*

In call centers there are also a good number of cases wherein employees had to consult or bring or make their lawyers call prior to leaving the company. Why should it have to be like that?Â* Regardless if the employee was a pain in the butt as long as he did not steal any property or harassed anybody.Â* There is an obvious hostility between management and employees because of how they treat people.Â* I won't talk in detail na lang but call center peeps sure knows what I am talking about especially in one particular call center.

In all the call centers that I know there is only one call center who requires the agent to call his or her manager, supervisor, then workforce/forcedesk when calling in sick and if either one does not concur, Patay kang bata ka!Â* I mean what is that?Â* This is just one of the many unreasonable and some one way policies and onerous stipulations to the contract. But hey, who's complaining? These guys are getting 5 digit above-average salaries.

I don't encourage unions in my company but I won't stop them either if we end up in an impasse or a gridlock and will not be able to reach a compromise.Â* The important thing is that we discussed things before they raised their placards. In a call center, you are not given this chance. It's follow or get out and if they can't fire you, they'll find a way that will make your stay there no longer comfortable.

I have at least 5 issues or instances I should say very important matters that I brought up to management that they needed to resolve or at least try to look into but they did not listen or simply gave us a lame reply some were very crucial so they promised but never did anything. 2 Managers raised more or less similar issues to higher management for the sake of their team but was not resolved so they got rid of the 2 managers which were generally good by the way.

BTW, in call centers there is no such thing as real due process.Â* There's like a mock hearing with inutile HR but they (management & production) still got their way in the end.Â* The DOLE officer told me that those people who were treated such can still file a case within 3 years from the date that they were illegally dismissed or were forced or harrassed in order to resign and even encouraged to file a case para daw matagam.Â* They did this to a couple of employees.

With the way they are running things where will the employees run to? HR who is paid by management? at least if the employees have an association not necessarily a union, they can talk among themselves and raise the issue to the management and have a voice. not having any voice will make it easier for management to annhilate employees who don't play by "their" rules or who refuse to become puppets. Good for employees like me who have a choice but for those who are stuck there and are complaining and have basis for their valid complaints but can't do anything?! LKK na lan sila! Wa sila'y mahims and wala sila'y kapa-ingnan. At least kung na'ay union or association, the management will think twice or even thrice in abusing or exploiting their employees.

[LytSlpr]

a related thread...

https://www.istorya.net/forums/index.php?topic=35315.0