RELIGION....(part 2)

[mannyamador]

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I do.......

Prove it. So far, all you have been making are false and wacky claims with no historical evidence to back them up whatsoever. if that passes for "knowing" history for you, then I have some Arizona beachfront property to sell you...

they still accepted the errors of many so-called letters and epistles and those kinds of teachings have been built-up from back then... to today.

Another false claim. All the Church's teachings are from Christ and the Aposltes. Unlike your "sola scriptura" and "sola fide" which are made up by protestants to justify their lies.

What "God's People" group are you blathering about?

The first generation Christians......

In other words, the Catholic Church. They were all Catholics and had bishops, popes, and early forms of the sacraments. And by the way, the FIRST generation of Christians had no Bible. They dion't even establish the canon of the Bible back then. You have NOT been able to show me a single document from the FIRST generaiton of Christians that lists the complete canon. SHOW ME.

None? I thought so.

What you would call the "Catholic Letters" (Pauline epistles), the 4 Gospels...

They DO NOT contain any canon of the scripture whatsover. You don't even know what your blathering about!

The Catholic Church was established by Christ and was formally born at Pentecost, not a century after. The very same Apostles were catholics and they FORMALLY passed on their teaching authority to others. This FORMAL passing of authority has never been broken. Thus, it is the SAME CHURCH, both formally and doctrinally.

That's more than you can say for your heretical denominations.

[Cardinal Bunal]

Let me get back to you some years later when I can afford that Arizona beachfront property you're dealing if nobody's taken it by then anyway...

But seriously, is there so much bombast in saying that a tree ISN'T separated from it's trunk and roots if it is chopped off? Yes of course......... But there is no pomp in the knowledge that seeds are scattered and can grow individually without a branch or mother roots to support the individual seeds, but the sun and rain to sustain it as a plant.

Eph. 2: 19 - 22

[dacs]

Cor.13 is one of my most favorite scriptures from the bible.. aside from the Psalms of David and some parts of the Philippians and Romans.

I like that one myself.

1 Corinthians 13:1 - If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (Si linguis hominum loquar et angelorum caritatem autem non habeam factus sum velut aes sonans aut cymbalum tinniens.)

Every time 'love' is mentioned, it is rendered in Latin as caritatem or caritas depending on its grammatical usage. Charity, or love, is the theological virtue Catholics understand as appertaining to the good works - 'divinely infused habit, inclining the human will to cherish God for his own sake above all things, and man for the sake of God'.

[dacs]

Because whether St. Peter's Basilica exists or not, the church still exists.

Correct. The Church (i.e., the Catholic Church) existed before the St. Peter's Basilica. In fact, the Church existed even before the Bible. The Church already existed before St. Paul (who was then Saul, persecutor of Christians) became a Christian. Obviously, Saul cannot persecute a group of people who did not exist then. To these persecuted lot, the Church is the sole rule of faith.

As the church refers to those People of God

It is - and more. A good discussion on the term 'Church' can be found here. The Catechism of the Catholic Church has these to say:

777 The word "Church" means "convocation." It designates the assembly of those whom God's Word "convokes," i.e., gathers together to form the People of God, and who themselves, nourished with the Body of Christ, become the Body of Christ.

778 The Church is both the means and the goal of God's plan: prefigured in creation, prepared for in the Old Covenant, founded by the words and actions of Jesus Christ, fulfilled by his redeeming cross and his Resurrection, the Church has been manifested as the mystery of salvation by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. She will be perfected in the glory of heaven as the assembly of all the redeemed of the earth (cf. Rev 14:4).

779 The Church is both visible and spiritual, a hierarchical society and the Mystical Body of Christ. She is one, yet formed of two components, human and divine. That is her mystery, which only faith can accept.

780 The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men.

who share the same belief in Christ and are in communion with Him whatever religion they may be associated with.

Huh?! The 'and' is certainly out of place. You cannot be a Buddhist yet share the same belief in Christ as the Christians. Nor can you be a good Muslim yet believe that Christ is the only savior. Faith must be coupled with reason. You make Christianity very illogical and unreasonable. Worst, you make as though of the same dignity as any other religion.

[Cardinal Bunal]

- 'divinely infused habit, inclining the human will to cherish God for his own sake above all things, and man for the sake of God'.

See also Philippians 1: 6 and James 2: 18

[dacs]

- 'divinely infused habit, inclining the human will to cherish God for his own sake above all things, and man for the sake of God'.

See also Philippians 1: 6 and James 2: 18

... and, when we read the last verse of 1 Corinthians chapter 13, we have:

'So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love'.
(Nunc autem manet fides spes caritas tria haec maior autem his est caritas)

Love - charity (i.e., caritas) - is the greatest. Greater than faith, greater than hope. So Catholic.

[dacs]

But seriously, is there so much bombast in saying that a tree ISN'T separated from it's trunk and roots if it is chopped off? Yes of course......... But there is no pomp in the knowledge that seeds are scattered and can grow individually without a branch or mother roots to support the individual seeds, but the sun and rain to sustain it as a plant.

Eph. 2: 19 - 22

Ephesians 2:19-20 'So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone.'

Household - singular.

What does the Apostle John has to say about that? 1 John 4:6 'We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.' Obedience to apostolic authority is a mark of a true Christian. Just as Matthew 18:15-18 says : '"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.' Who among the churches you know have and claim this authority of binding and loosing? No Protestant denomination claims nor has the authority to bind and to loose. If you don't listen to the Church (singular), you are to be cut off from it. There will be no 'seeds' that would grow --- just a cut-off branch.

The appeal to the analogy of seeds seems like a parallel appeal to that of Miriam (Moses' sister) who rebels together with Aaron in Number 12:1-15 (While they were in Hazeroth, Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses on the pretext of the marriage he had contracted with a Cushite woman. They complained, "Is it through Moses alone that the LORD speaks? Does he not speak through us also?" And the LORD heard this. Now, Moses himself was by far the meekest man on the face of the earth. So at once the LORD said to Moses and Aaron and Miriam, "Come out, you three, to the meeting tent." And the three of them went. Then the LORD came down in the column of cloud, and standing at the entrance of the tent, called Aaron and Miriam. When both came forward, he said, "Now listen to the words of the LORD: Should there be a prophet among you, in visions will I reveal myself to him, in dreams will I speak to him; Not so with my servant Moses! Throughout my house he bears my trust: face to face I speak to him, plainly and not in riddles. The presence of the LORD he beholds. Why, then, did you not fear to speak against my servant Moses?" So angry was the LORD against them that when he departed, and the cloud withdrew from the tent, there was Miriam, a snow-white leper! When Aaron turned and saw her a leper, "Ah, my lord!" he said to Moses, "please do not charge us with the sin that we have foolishly committed! Let her not thus be like the stillborn babe that comes forth from its mother's womb with its flesh half consumed." Then Moses cried to the LORD, "Please, not this! Pray, heal her!" But the LORD answered Moses, "Suppose her father had spit in her face, would she not hide in shame for seven days? Let her be confined outside the camp for seven days; only then may she be brought back." So Miriam was confined outside the camp for seven days, and the people did not start out again until she was brought back.)

This stance is further aggravated by the rebellion of Korah later in Numbers 16:1-35 (Korah, son of Izhar, son of Kohath, son of Levi, (and Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, son of Pallu, son of Reuben) took two hundred and fifty Israelites who were leaders in the community, members of the council and men of note. They stood before Moses, and held an assembly against Moses and Aaron, to whom they said, "Enough from you! The whole community, all of them, are holy; the LORD is in their midst. Why then should you set yourselves over the LORD'S congregation?" When Moses heard this, he fell prostrate. Then he said to Korah and to all his band, "May the LORD make known tomorrow morning who belongs to him and who is the holy one and whom he will have draw near to him! Whom he chooses, he will have draw near him. Do this: take your censers (Korah and all his band) and put fire in them and place incense in them before the LORD tomorrow. He whom the LORD then chooses is the holy one. Enough from you Levites!" Moses also said to Korah, "Listen to me, you Levites! Is it too little for you that the God of Israel has singled you out from the community of Israel, to have you draw near him for the service of the LORD'S Dwelling and to stand before the community to minister for them? He has allowed you and your kinsmen, the descendants of Levi, to approach him, and yet you now seek the priesthood too. It is therefore against the LORD that you and all your band are conspiring. For what has Aaron done that you should grumble against him?" Moses summoned Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, but they answered, "We will not go. Are you not satisfied with having led us here away from a land flowing with milk and honey, to make us perish in the desert, that you must now lord it over us? Far from bringing us to a land flowing with milk and honey, or giving us fields and vineyards for our inheritance, will you also gouge out our eyes? No, we will not go." Then Moses became very angry and said to the LORD, "Pay no heed to their offering. I have never taken a single ass from them, nor have I wronged any one of them." Moses said to Korah, "You and all your band shall appear before the LORD tomorrow-you and they and Aaron too. Then each of your two hundred and fifty followers shall take his own censer, put incense in it, and offer it to the LORD; and you and Aaron, each with his own censer, shall do the same." So they all took their censers, and laying incense on the fire they had put in them, they took their stand by the entrance of the meeting tent along with Moses and Aaron. Then, when Korah had assembled all his band against them at the entrance of the meeting tent, the glory of the LORD appeared to the entire community, and the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Stand apart from this band, that I may consume them at once." But they fell prostrate and cried out, "O God, God of the spirits of all mankind, will one man's sin make you angry with the whole community?" The LORD answered Moses, "Speak to the community and tell them: Withdraw from the space around the Dwelling" (of Korah, Dathan and Abiram). Moses, followed by the elders of Israel, arose and went to Dathan and Abiram. Then he warned the community, "Keep away from the tents of these wicked men and do not touch anything that is theirs: otherwise you too will be swept away because of all their sins." When Dathan and Abiram had come out and were standing at the entrances of their tents with their wives and sons and little ones, Moses said, "This is how you shall know that it was the LORD who sent me to do all I have done, and that it was not I who planned it: if these men die an ordinary death, merely suffering the fate common to all mankind, then it was not the LORD who sent me. But if the LORD does something entirely new, and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them alive down into the nether world, with all belonging to them, then you will know that these men have defied the LORD." No sooner had he finished saying all this than the ground beneath them split open, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their families (and all of Korah's men) and all their possessions. They went down alive to the nether world with all belonging to them; the earth closed over them, and they perished from the community. But all the Israelites near them fled at their shrieks, saying, "The earth might swallow us too!" So they withdrew from the space around the Dwelling (of Korah, Dathan and Abiram). And fire from the LORD came forth which consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering the incense.)

[mannyamador]

But there is no pomp in the knowledge that seeds are scattered and can grow individually without a branch or mother roots to support the individual seeds, but the sun and rain to sustain it as a plant.

That's if the seeds came from the same tree. In the case of your sects, they didn't. They are different, formally, doctrinally, and are without authority.

[DHated]

hala ka diha.. mao na inyo gi dangatan...

sige man gud mo tan-aw ni Eli soriano og ang Iglesia ni Kristo mag debate!!!

pamahuway mo oi...

[akari]

Hahay taasa oi. Isn't this too confusing?