MERGED: Do You Want U.S. Statehood For the Philippines?

[josephdc]

and why can't us, the people in this country, do the changing ourselves? because we cannot? i have to disagree. we can, if we really want to. the "ailing people" who happens to be the majority can rise up and change things, only if they know they can.

mao jud ni basically ang difference sa opinion between those who want statehood with the US and those who don't: the latter still believe in the people's capacity to change the country, while the former have run out of hope. so ang bottomline jud diri kay hope.

the power to change the country is really latent in the people. it's just a matter of making them aware that they have that power. a matter of making them understand that the future of the country is in their hands. by "just" i don't mean it's a simple thing. it's a simple enough *concept* but tremendously hard to do. that's what civil society, NGOs, cause-oriented groups are doing. you could say that they are optimists. because they rise to the challenge. the challenges we all face hovers above us like a monster, but these people never give up. mao na siya basically ang naka-lahi nila sa mga taw nga pro-statehood. the pro-statehood people do have noble intentions, pero lahi ilang nakita nga "solution" sa ato mga problema. gusto nila statehood. they fail to see the absurdity of that proposition. in an ideal world, that would be perfect. they overlook the fact that america is not the benevolent uncle they believe it to be. they overlook the fact that america is responsible (at least partially) for our current situation. ako nakalimut nako unsa to specifically nga mga agreements ato na-sign with america in the past (we discussed them in high school), pero i do remember nga daghan kaayo injustices nahimu ang US sa ato sa una (nga naka-ingun nganong ingun ani ta karun), not only in 1898 when america came to our shores in the guise of saving us from the spaniards when we already have defeated the spaniards then, and took away our liberty. not only during the filipino-american war when they massacred thousands of our men, women, and children, because they took us for "bandits" and "thieves". but also the numerous economic "deals" they thrusted upon us to exploit our resources and make us dependent on it. they even claimed they granted us our independence. what a joke! independence is *not* granted. it is won, and *we did* in 1898 during the revolution with spain, only that it was snatched away from us. and we say nationalism has brought us our present perils! there can never be a more perverted idea than that. nationalism strives for independence, for development and progress through self-sufficiency and hard work. if only we really strove for nationalism, for independence, believed in ourselves and not begged from others, ni-develop na unta ta. like i said, let's look at our asian neighbors. kita na siguro ang pinaka-luoy karun in terms of economic development. unsa ma'y naa nila nga wala nato? it can't be the system of government, it can't be because we have "too much" of democracy, as mahathir of malaysia pointed out. malaysia have an authoritarian type of government and they have prospered, so has singapore, with lee kwan yew's "iron-fisted" rule. but what about those countries who *don't* have authoritarian governments? why have they prospered also? it can't be the type of government. what those countries have in common is a great sense of "nationalism", or basically, love for their country. pareha sa south korea. if you remember that article someone here posted in this thread earlier, south korea before was very poor, it was greatly ravaged by war. but the people in that country *loved* their country, to the point wherein they were willing to do anything for their country, to sacrifice their personal good for the greater good of their country; they resolved to prosper, so they did. mao sad na sa singapore. it's not their system of government. it's the people's love for their country. and vietnam, too. not too long ago grabe kaayo na ka-ravaged ang vietnam (thanks to the US), pero karun dako na sila ug development. love for country, independence, hard work through one's effort, that's what these countries have in common.

why give up the sovereignty of the counrty to a foreign power that has time and time again violated the rights of the filipinos time and time again?

mao jud. america is (at least partly) to be blamed for our situation (particularly the economic one), ato na hinuon ihatag atong kaugalingun didto nila?

I think a super power country such as, the United States really has to intervene in these countries because the ones in power are literally ruling it with an iron hand and enjoying all the comfort while their people are ailing.

mu-intervene lang na ang US kung naa sila'y dako kaayo nga benefit nga makuha sa ana nga action. like for example, oil. wala man ta'y oil nga ma-exploit sa ilang mga giant oil companies. ug tan-awa, the US went so far as to ignore the United Nations, violate international rules, concoct all sorts of "evidence" of weapons of mass destruction para lang ma-control niya ang huge reserves of oil didto nga region sa Mid-East. so that's one example of the US being driven mainly, if not solely, by economic and strategic interests. it's indeed laughable the idea that the US would save us from our miseries and adopt us, as if it's welling-up with good intentions.

Will a major makeover happen soon? NO. I doubt that it will happen soon and that's reality. That's why I would welcome the idea of being a U.S. state cause all these aspirations will never ever happen.

It will never happen kung defeatist kaayo atong attitude. This, again, is where we differ. You are so pessimistic, EZRA, while Gareb and I are optimistic.

I'm not ashamed being a Filipino here sa States because I am a successful Filipino.. I overcame all the hardships and came to where I am right now. It's not that bad as you think diri sa States bai... life is good. I would never go back sa Pilipinas nya ngadto mag buhi ug pamilya. I can never be as successful as I am right now if naa ko sa diha sa Pilipinas.

Nakasabot ra ko bai. A lot of us Pinoys think that way already. There's really a dearth of opportunities here. Dili kaayo secure imong future kung diri ka magtrabaho o mag-raise ug family. Ang ako lang gi-ask is that we be a little hopeful for our country. Because this requires man jud a lot of self-sacrifice. And I know, and it's only understandable, that people would think first of their own good and last only of their country's. But if we really want to improve this country, we have to learn to sacrifice. Mao lagi na nga heroic na na nga act ang pag-stay diri, ang pag-invest diri, ang pag-trust nato sa ato country. Murag people right now don't find heroism to be their calling.

I follow the American law and pay taxes to Uncle Sam. In a couple of years I will get my citizenship and I will proudly welcome that. I may be Americanized or westernized and have adapted the American Culture after 10 years living here but regardless of everything, I will still and always will be a Filipino.

Well, I wish you all the best. Maayo lang unta kung naa pay mabilin diri sa atoa para mu-work for changes. Maybe if you have enough money you can come back here and invest. Maybe create a business para maka-provide ka ug jobs.

JOSEPH: Of course.. there is no quick fixes.. that's not the question... the question is, will it be fixed in years to come? Lets say in 20 years.. do you think any progress would be made?

Again, we have to be optimistic.

Even you couldn't even answer HOW... `cause with all the people running the country and the people behind those people, change could never be done. That's why I'm very confident to state the fact that even in 20 years, no major positive change can occur in the Philippines. No matter how tedious the process can be.. the thing is, no one WANTS it done when everyone in power is enjoying the fruits of their greed.

Confident kaayo ka, huh? Seriously, we really have to be optimistic. Me, I'm positive that change will come as long as people are determined to change things (I don't know kung 5, 10, 20 years from now, or beyond, pero it will come). Daghan pa man taw dire nga maayo. Mga civil societies, NGOs, etc., who are working for changes one step at a time.

Joseph.. Do you have KIDS?
Wouldn't you want the best for your kids?

Lisud na da. No, I don't have kids, single pa ko. I'll stay single usa while things don't look so certain pa. Like I said, sacrifice usa ta. If things don't get any better many years from now, I don't know lang if willing pa ba ko mu-himu ug sacrifices.

[gareb]

Sad thing is, the people's mentality as a whole will never change... tha majority will always be baduy and will always vote for the VIVA and SEIKO political parties. The majority can always be bought as well!!!!

i like the way you put it... the VIVA and SEIKO political parties and all. however, the statement following that is so true. it is our duty, having seen and learned well from the past lessons, to change that. no one will do it for us without conditions.

Will a major makeover happen soon? NO. I doubt that it will happen soon and that's reality. That's why I would welcome the idea of being a U.S. state cause all these aspirations will never ever happen.

let us stand in our own two feet for a change. there CAN be one if we want it to. the problem is we dont. even if we do, we look up to another country for help. its too pathetic. we never learn.

It's not that bad as you think diri sa States bai... life is good. I would never go back sa Pilipinas nya ngadto mag buhi ug pamilya. I can never be as successful as I am right now if naa ko sa diha sa Pilipinas.

oh life there is GOOD. no one wants to say that it isnt. all of us want a good life we would sacrifice life and limb for this and for the good future of our children. but most of us would rather take the easier way out by going somewhere else and not coming back, instead of changing what we have here and now.

and i cannot and will not blame you for your choice to leave. i guess more than half of the population (me included) will do so if they can. this country sucks as it is. but this is home and it will always be home as long as we still feel that we are filipinos.

we do not sell a house when its roof has holes in it, or the floor sags, or the wallpapers peel or the boards creak. we do not let in the demolition team to reduce it to rubble. we do renovations and makeovers. renovating countries is different from renovating houses though... instead of instead of infusions of cash from our bank accounts or loans that we get from other people... in renovating a country, what we most need is the sheer force of will.

I may be Americanized or westernized and have adapted the American Culture after 10 years living here but regardless of everything, I will still and always will be a Filipino.

thats the spirit. :mrgreen:

[EZRA]

Joseph and Gareb ... ang inyong gibarogan can be summed up in one word.. HOPE. But all the HOPING and YEARNING can't change the fact na change will never happen in the near future. We can be optimisitic about the possibilities and say yes, change can happen... there's no fee in dreaming anyways.
Agreed that the country needs a major makeover... but who will take the action? how and when? We've talked about this before and this seems redundant but all your hopes and dreams will never come true unless all these questions are answered.
AND... let's say that a major movement is churning.. another question may come to mind. Who's backing this movement?? Do they have their own motives and reasons? Ulterior motives? OF COURSE... and again, the cycle begins.

[josephdc]

But all the HOPING and YEARNING can't change the fact na change will never happen in the near future.

See, you're so pessimistic. We are not given with the ability to predict the future (Present circumstances may indicate that change will not happen in the near future, but you never know. The future is really unpredictable). What we are given with is only the power to choose whether to face the future optimistically or pessimistically. Knowing that nothing will ever happen if we choose to be pessimistic, the wiser choice would be to resolve to become optimistic.

We can be optimisitic about the possibilities and say yes, change can happen... there's no fee in dreaming anyways.

You can also put it that way. Change start as dreams, too.

Agreed that the country needs a major makeover... but who will take the action? how and when? We've talked about this before and this seems redundant but all your hopes and dreams will never come true unless all these questions are answered.

Yes. Who will take the action? We ourselves. Again, it can only come from us, the people. How, when? Like I said, those are very specific questions, and I don't have any answer to them. I only know that something needs to be done and we need to be hopeful always. That at least is one step in the right direction.

[EZRA]

JOSEPH.. do you think the country's future is that unpredictable? Tell me... who's running for Presidency in the next election Who's backing these people?? ... who are you gonna vote for? Would a positive change happen in the next administration?

I'm not being pessimistic... I'm being real. If reality seems that depressing, then that's probably how it really is. .. (although people seems to have enough money to get the latest cellphone out there... lol) .... I would be only lying to myself if I think that the Philippines has a bright future ahead.

[gareb]

Joseph and Gareb ... ang inyong gibarogan can be summed up in one word.. HOPE. But all the HOPING and YEARNING can't change the fact na change will never happen in the near future. We can be optimisitic about the possibilities and say yes, change can happen... there's no fee in dreaming anyways.

i sort of like the idea that i am hoping. hmm... change... if we just yak and do nothing, nothing will ever change. we will forever dream dreams and never realize what we forever seek.

we will do the change. kita. no one else will do it for us. now. it has begun so many years ago. we just do not know it because we are too preoccupied with listening to the false hopes of those who wanted to be elected to power.

Agreed that the country needs a major makeover... but who will take the action? how and when? We've talked about this before and this seems redundant but all your hopes and dreams will never come true unless all these questions are answered.

WE will take the action. NOW is the time to act. EXPOSE the rotten system, and OPPOSE it. ENLIGHTEN the minds of the common masa so that they will not be bought by the false pretenses of the crocodilian politics that we have and for them not to repeat the very same mistakes that all of us have been commiting all along.

AND... let's say that a major movement is churning.. another question may come to mind. Who's backing this movement?? Do they have their own motives and reasons? Ulterior motives? OF COURSE... and again, the cycle begins.

if we can only see what certain people are doing and the true meaning of it all... not just the black propaganda that the status quo is sowing, we will see why certain things exist, why we never learn, and most of all, what we CAN do as a nation...

a genuine movement of the people for change MUST have the people behind it. it will become unsuccessful if the support of the majority wavers. no matter how noble the cause, if the people are not made to understand, then it can never succeed.

it begins with us. it ends with the society.

I'm not being pessimistic... I'm being real. If reality seems that depressing, then that's probably how it really is...

the picture that you paint of the country NOW is a reality. the picture that you paint of the country in the future is a probability. our perception of the future are but probabilities. it is up to us whether to make the choice to change the imminent or to leave it all behind to fate.

we can do it if we want to. we cannot do it if we do not know how, though. and it can never happen if we say 'no' at the first place.

[EZRA]

Thats' really great GAREB.. that you think that way... If only EVEN an EIGHTH of the population shares the same thoughts and have the same enthusiasm as you do.. a change can definitely occur.
Things are easier said than done... "EXPOSE the rotten system, and OPPOSE it. ENLIGHTEN the minds of the common masa" ....... this calls for an uprising.. may even have a violent outcome.. and I hope the administration that replaces the old one possesses a Noble Cause..... Sad to say that this won't be happening soon. The country's future is bleak.. and that will soon become a reality unless an "Uprising" you mention will take place soon. If that uprising would take place... and if it is successful.. then good, a new image of a FILIPINO may be formulated.. something that we can be proud of.
But I'll bet all my underwear that this uprising will never take place in the near future.. not when the people in power are there to prevent it.

[Visual C#]

We have become so damn lazy, people. And what's more disappointing is that there are "people" out there who have never done anything here in the Philippines, yet constantly criticize the system! Why can't you be part of the solution? To quote Jose_Rizal (not the hero), " what have you done for the Filipino people today?

There is hope for our country, and there are solutions, but running away from the problem is definitely not one of them. Hardline pessimists, please, stop it!

[Lady_Death]

i think that statehood of the Phils is not the answer. i think thats a waste of time for the US to do that when the problem itself is the attitude of majority of the people who are either in politics or even just plain workers. I think that the country still has a long way to go and change starts with the people. Whenever im in the phils, it just feels like the [some] people have a lot to learn about diversity, respect, discipline and honesty. I think that the country really reflects the people and how they are and unless they change, the country wont move forward

[EZRA]

VISUAL C : Don't get me wrong.. I do hope that the Philippines will rise up and prosper. Again... I am not being pessimistic, this is reality. If you think what I'm saying isn't true then I'll shut up!