Do you believe in Reincarnation?

[carmicael]

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"Any unexplained phenomenon (in the case of reincarnation) passes through three stages before the reality of it is accepted.
During the first stage it is considered laughable. During second stage it is adamantly opposed.
Finally, during the third stage it is accepted as self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer

therefore, it is unsafe to say that "REINCARNATION IS PROVEN BY SCIENCE", unless it is accepted as self-evident by the scientific community. until then, IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN BELIEF.

[regnauld]

therefore, it is unsafe to say that "REINCARNATION IS PROVEN BY SCIENCE", unless it is accepted as self-evident by the scientific community. until then, IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN BELIEF.

Fo me and millions of people this is more than a belief.


Scientific Proof of Reincarnation
Dr. Ian Stevenson's Life Work

"Either he [Dr. Stevenson] is making a colossal mistake. Or he will be known as the Galileo of the 20th century." Dr Harold Lief in the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease

I just remember Galileo and Copernicus who was persecuted by the chuch for declaring that the earth was not the center of the universe!

[regnauld]

Facts and Figures of Reincarnation Belief in Europe

"Comment is free but facts are sacred". Charles Prestwich Scott

Belief in the migration of souls has taken root in our western culture. This fact is all the more remarkable because of a double clash: a clash with the traditional Christian view of afterlife, and a clash with the secular, scientific world view. Reincarnation seems to defy the logic of the moment.
It is not my task within this forum to analyse the historical development of this belief. Experts from different disciplines will offer their findings, insights and conclusions. I see it as my main task to present a clear picture of how the belief in reincarnation manifests itself in everyday life. What does it mean for people when they believe in reincarnation?
I will adopt more than a phenomenological approach. Rather than merely indicating the external appearance of the belief, I will attempt to analyse its inner psychological structure. I will raise questions about the motivations in which it is anchored, and their implications for our Christian ministry.

Reincarnation Belief in Europe

[regnauld]

Reincarnation: Fact or Fantasy?
An essay that examines it

by Nell Gavin, author of
"Threads: The Reincarnation of Anne Boleyn

http://www.nellgavin.com/reincarnation.htm

[regnauld]

I had been raised a catholic and was taught from an early age that we only have one life to get it all right or there was hell to pay (literally). The church asked me to trust them on this one... they had all the answers and wanted me to place blind faith in their teachings.
However, during the early years of my spiritual awakening, I began to wonder who invented the one-life concept. Up to that point in my life, I blindly believed that religious law. Then one day I wondered where that dogma really comes from. The easy answer was "from my Christian religion." But that wasn't good enough for me. That led to tougher questions such as... at what time in religious history did the one-life law originate? Who came up with this teaching? Why did half the people on this planet believe in something totally foreign to me ... reincarnation? Most importantly, who was right? Today, over one billion Christians on this planet have put their blind faith in this teaching. Can you imagine that... they have taken someone else's word for it.
As I began to dig into this puzzle more and more, I suspected that the answer could be found somewhere between the time Jeshua died (33 A.D.) and 600 A.D. During that time, the Christian religion was born, organized, defined, politicized and "dogmatized." All of this information is available in the libraries and has been well researched over the years. Why don't we hear more about it? The leaders of Western religions don't want you to know this.
It first started with James (the brother of Jeshua), Paul, the early church fathers and others. As a teacher of righteousness, Jesus' seeds of profound spiritual wisdom and universal truths were given to many people. After his death, some of those people brought those seeds to local and foreign lands. Many religious groups or sects were formed based upon his teachings. There was a lot of opinion and disagreement on what to do with them and how they were to be interpreted. One major offshoot was the formation of the Christian (Roman Catholic) religion. Throughout those first 500 years, other man-made laws were added to those that Jesus first taught. After His death, each new generation reinterpreted those original teachings... then they were edited and embellished for many different reasons. Part of His incredible wisdom was put into the New Testament. But, the earliest existing copy we have of that document is dated to the 4th century, almost 400 years after Christ's appearance. We have nothing earlier in writing except bits of pieces here and there found on various ancient parchments.
Sometime during the first 600 years of early Christianity, several major events happened...

Early references to reincarnation in the New Testament had been deleted in the fourth century by Emperor Constantine, when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire.
In the sixth century, the Second Council of Constantinople ruled that reincarnation was a false belief punishable by persecution and death.
At the same time, the Church and the Roman Emperors knew that the concept of prior lives would weaken and undermine their power over their followers since it would give these people too much time to achieve salvation... the threat of a Judgment Day and punishment by an angry God at the end of one's life, worked a lot better to control the masses.
The Roman Catholic church realized it would have more power and influence by becoming not only a religious organization, but a political one. As a result, the church formed powerful alliances with the Roman emperors.
Why did the church form these alliances with the Roman emperors? Because the emperors wanted to make sure that the people didn't riot and an organized religion that controlled the masses through fear could help to accomplish that.
Why did the emperors want to make sure there were no rebellions by the masses? Because the wanted an uninterrupted flow of taxes.

[regnauld]

Listed below is an excellent historical explanation of what happened during those early times regarding reincarnation and the one life dogma. It was given by Nick Bunick who wrote a book (see below) that, in part, deals with this issue. Again, it is offered not to offend but to make one wonder and think. Ultimately, please form your own conclusions.

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"At the time that Jeshua walked the earth, the Judaic religion had three different sects. One was the Sadducees and they professed they did not know what happened to the soul or the spirit upon death. The other two sects were the Pharisees and the Essenes. They absolutely believed in transmigration of the soul, what we call reincarnation.
In the fourth century A.D., Constantine was the emperor of Rome. He appointed a pope named Damascus. In conjunction with that, they founded the Council of Nicaea and made an effort to purge everything out of the Scriptures of the New Testament that spoke of reincarnation as they were translating the Scriptures from Aramaic into Latin, their contemporary language. [Encyclopedia Britannica says the Council of Nicaea, A.D. 325, '... is an event of the highest importance in the history of Christianity. It was the first attempt to fix the criteria of Christian orthodoxy, by means of definitely formulated pronouncements on the content of Christian belief...' - SP]
Then, in the fifth century A.D., when Justinian was the emperor, he called together the Fifth Ecumenical Council. The Council met in Constantinople with the specific purpose of condemning the idea of reincarnation, committing themselves, from that time on, to always speak of life being one experience on earth, that redemption and salvation must take place during this one lifetime.
Pope Vigilius refused to participate in that meeting because he totally disagreed with their trying to change the entire teachings of hundreds and hundreds of years, teachings that did believe in reincarnation, and more importantly, the teachings of Jeshua.
I do not think it was done maliciously. I believe it was probably a decision of mortal people at that time who had good intent, and felt they could better influence the people who were attending their churches by making them believe they must receive redemption and salvation in this one lifetime. But unfortunately, in doing so, they changed dramatically the true messages of Jeshua, and that is that we are all part of God, and being part of God, we are all immortal. We do come back in human bodies in order to experience the material world so that we may become, through the experiences in the material world, pure again. I want to emphasize again, I do not believe it was malicious on the part of the decision-makers at that time. I feel their decision was based on what they thought was in the best interests of the people."

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During the first 300 years of the early church, reincarnation was widely accepted by many of the early Christians, including Origen, whom the Encyclopedia Britannica hailed as "the most prominent of the church fathers with the possible exception of Saint Augustine." In addition, the Gnostic gospel, Pitis Sophia, quotes Jesus as saying that..."Souls are poured from one into another of different bodies of the world."
Leading up to the fourth century, the church evolved into an institution that was ripe for manipulation. It was during this time that the Church-State alliance was born with the sole purpose of achieving blind-faith dependence upon the church by the masses. Belief in reincarnation tended to produce individuals who were more self reliant, freethinking and not very controllable. The church did not want that... and hasn't wanted it up to this very day.
When was the one-life dogma invented? Sometime around 379-395 A.D., Constantine, his successor Theodosious and the early church fathers created new teachings. They said that we were separate from God, we only had one life to live, when we died we either went to heaven or hell and that the only way to save ourselves was through the church.
In the year 553 A.D., Emperor Justinian called for the Fifth Ecumenical Council of Constantinople with the express purpose of condemning reincarnation once and for all. Here's how it was done. A total of 15 Anathemas were created. Think of them as condemnations. The first anathema was "if anyone assert the fabulous pre-existence of the souls (reincarnation), and shall assert monstrous restoration which follows from it, let him be anathema." From that point forward reincarnation was forbidden from Christian beliefs. Individuals who chose to practice reincarnation were persecuted. The church's campaign of terror and slaughter lasted until the 13th century when the last vestige of reincarnation was wiped out... and it has remained so ever since.

Why was reincarnation banned? Simple. Under the concept of reincarnation God does not punish anyone. We are the ones who are responsible for the choices we make. We are also the ones who will decide how any of our negative actions will be healed with love during a future life. This belief system does not require a formal church with doctrines, dogmas and donations. In essence, if someone believed in reincarnation, that individual would not need anyone to serve as an intermediary between himself or herself and our Source. God is within everyone.
It's easy to see why the early church and future popes condemned this belief. There would be no reason to follow their own man-made religion, which was based upon the dogma that God judges, punishes, heaven and hell, etc. And, according to their self-serving teachings, one could miraculously be saved from all of this through the church, especially through generous donations. Over the centuries, these dogmas of fear and guilt have made people totally dependent upon the church. Sadly, it's been that way ever since. Very soon this form of control will end.

One last thing while we're on this general subject. It concerns the divinity of Christ. This dogma states that Jeshua was totally different than us, that He was the son of God and, because of his unique divinity, was separate from us. Who invented this belief? When did it come into existence?... sometime around 325 A.D. when the emperor Constantine ruled over a vast kingdom of millions of people.
During that 4th century, many changes were added/made to the early Christian beliefs by the emperor and the church fathers. The Nicaean Council that formed during this time, declared that Jeshua was a direct part of God and that we were separate from our Source. That is when this belief was invented... again by man. This is not meant to diminish the teachings of love and forgiveness that Jesus brought to us during his visit to Earth. He was a magnificent teacher and healer, among the greatest to walk this planet. But, we are all sons and daughters of God. There is no separation. Even Jeshua said in the scriptures that we would do greater things than he did.

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There is a book in print today entitled "Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation." It was written by Ian Stevenson, M.D. during the 1960's. At the time of that writing Dr. Stevenson was a psychiatrist with the University of Virginia Medical College and had investigated nearly 600 cases of possible reincarnation. The 20 cases presented in his book was a representative sample from the 600.

What makes some of his case histories so compelling is the detailed descriptions given by the individuals studied... especially those of young children (some of whom spontaneously began speaking in a foreign language related to their past life). Dr. Stevenson states... "The case usually starts when a small child of two to four years of age begins talking to his parents or siblings of a life in another time and place." Names of countries, towns, addresses, names of brothers, sisters, parents, descriptions of the homes lived in, etc., etc. were collected. Then Dr. Stevenson went to the places described and verified what the children and others said. There was no way the individuals studied could know such things, especially the young children.

And here is another amazing thing. The prestigious American Medical Association reviewed one of Dr. Stevenson's earlier books on ten meticulously investigated cases of reincarnation specifically from India. They said... "In regard to reincarnation, he [Stevenson] has painstakingly and unemotionally collected a detailed series of cases from India, cases in which the evidence is difficult to explain on any other grounds." - Journal of the American Medical Association.

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Last but not least there is another book on reincarnation recently authored by another psychiatrist, Dr. Brian Weiss...
"Many Lives, Many Masters" by Brian Weiss, M.D.
An excellent book that has sold more than 2 million copies and has been translated into 26 different languages. Dr. Weiss is an eminent psychiatrist who was startled one day by a patient of his who began to remember previous lives while under hypnosis. He was so impressed by what happened he decided to go public with it after years of hesitancy. If you are interested in the phenomenon of past lives this is the book to start with.

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(1) Referenced writings on reincarnation:


"Know that if you become worse you will go to the worse souls, and if better, to the better souls; and in every succession of life and death you will and suffer what like must fitly suffer at the hands of like"
Plato - (582 - 507 B.C.), The Republic

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"Every soul... comes into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of it previous life. Its place in this world as a vessel appointed to honor or dishonor, is determined by its previous merits or demerits. Its work in this world determines its place in the world which is to follow this."
Origen - De Principiis (early church father) (185 - 254 A.D.)

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"We were in being long before the foundation of the world; we existed in the eye of God, for it is our destiny to live in Him. We are reasonable creatures of the Divine Word; therefore, we have existed from the beginning, for in the beginning was the word."
St. Clement of Alexandria - (150 - 220 A.D.)

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"... it is absolutely necessary that the soul should be healed and purified, and if this does not take place during its life on earth, it must be accomplished in future lives."
St. Gregory - (257 - 332 A.D.)

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"The message of Plato, the purest and the most luminous of all philosophy, has at last scattered the darkness of error, and now shines forth mainly in Plotinus, a Platonist so like his master that one would think they lived together, or rather, since so long a period of time separates them - that Plato was born again in Plotinus."
St. Augustine - (354 - 430 A.D.

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Referenced Books:

"In God's Truth" Nick Bunick
"Born Again and Again" John Van Auken
"Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation" Ian Livingston, M.D.
"Many Lives, Many Masters" Brian Weiss, M.D.

http://www.spirit-works.net/christia...ncarnation.htm

[Maikeru]

I think i kinda understand what carmicaeld is saying.. And I think it aint like the case of Galileo's or Copernicus's case. Reincarnation has a real scientific possibility. It might be really happening. And he is keeping an open mind. But what carmicaeld might be saying is it is another story if you claim reincarnation is already a scientific truth. Not saying it's a fallacy either.

What is scientific truth? I found something on the net, hope this explains: Skeptic Friends Network - Scientific Truth

[regnauld]

I think i kinda understand what carmicaeld is saying.. And I think it aint like the case of Galileo's or Copernicus's case. Reincarnation has a real scientific possibility. It might be really happening. And he is keeping an open mind. But what carmicaeld might be saying is it is another story if you claim reincarnation is already a scientific truth. Not saying it's a fallacy either.

What is scientific truth? I found something on the net, hope this explains: Skeptic Friends Network - Scientific Truth

Yes you are right my friend!

[miguelboom]

Hinduism?...heheh! I like this thread.

[regnauld]

Hinduism?...heheh! I like this thread.

not only in hinduism but also in Esoteric Christianity wherein Jesus Christ taught about reincarnation!