learning Cebuano

[fife222]

Getting back on topic a bit, I have just went over all the revisions given here and I do have a few questions I think I forgot to ask earlier.

14. Mudugang unta ko og palit... pero busog pa ko

a. I just noticed that 'dugang' has a verb prefix 'mu-' before it. Why is this and what does it do to 'dugang'? b. The pronoun in this sentence 'ko' and in #18 'ko' is placed BEFORE the verb; why is this so and is this the norm?

15. gibunyag ka

is 'gi-' the passive voice marker?

17.naharos ang ciudad sa sunog
This an example of translation by context. If I translate the sentence back to English literally, it would say "A large part of the city was consumed by fire."

How about ' nakadaot ang ciudad sa sunog.' Is that a better translation then?

18. tulo ko ka higayon gibunyag sa tuig 2001

same as #14, 'ko' is placed BEFORE the verb; what's the grammar rule here?

20.Kung mas nibayad ma siya

I never found out what 'ma' means here?

[chad_tukes]

^^what i meant is that it's hard to speak fluent Cebuano without including any english words. there is a part of our Cebuano speech that when mixed with a few English words, it's easier to get the message across.

For example:

In a very casual setting, it's awkward for a Cebuano to say "Mu hatag kog donasyon para mulambo ang ilang organisasyon". most likely, they will say "Mag DONATE kog kwarta para AT LEAST maka tabang pud ko sa ilang organization."

as to your question about its applicability to other dialects, that i'm not sure since i only speak 3 languages (tagalog, english, bisaya). it's probably awkward for an Ilocano to mix English while speaking but for bisayas and tagalogs, this is pretty normal.

[chad_tukes]

BTW, where are you from @fife?

[fife222]

I'm from paradise, the Hawaiian isles. Plenty Ilocanos in my neck of the woods.

[tools4kools]

well just to share some insights i learn from my prof in college that cebuano or sinugbuanon is not a dialect but a language for people to know knowing that Philippine languages and dialects all came from one Austronesian group of languages. In the case of Cebuano, we don't have any mutually intelligible language, say tagalog to base on. When you try to put a cebuano and tagalog in conversation, they don't understand each other (except for cebuano how knows tagalog taught as filipino in schools) thus, cebuano is another language together with tagalog, ilocano, bicolano, hiligaynon, chavacano, wara-waray, etc. In the case of Bolanon, its mutually intelligible with cebuano/sinugbuanon, although there are some variations, thus we can say that bolanon is a dialect of cebuano/sinugbuano language.

[galenostiel]

I couldn't resist joining in, heheheh.

The most common use of 'mu-' is to designate future action, similar to 'will' or 'shall' or 'going to'. Thus mu + dugang = will + add.

'Will' denotes something definite, 'would' is more tentative. Adding 'unta' after a 'mu-' verb cancels out the resoluteness of the word 'will' and a 'pero' (but) usually follows soon after. Like in 'would...but' sentences in English...

I would sing but...
Mukanta unta ko pero...



Sometimes I find it easier to get the translation of each major word first, of course in relation to the context of the sentence, then take a step back, review, and then arrange or tweak the sentence as a whole to arrive at the best contextual translation. Sort of go about it a methodical way.

If I were to translate # 14...
I = ako/ko
would = unta
buy = palit
more = dugang (as adjective, not verb)
food = pagkaon
but = pero ('apan' would be the more Bisaya term, I think)
full = busog
now = karon

-- Mupalit unta ko og dugang nga pagkaon apan/pero busog ko karon.

However, I think in this context the speaker has bought food and eaten it, and is considering buying more but decided against it since he's already full. I feel busog ko karon translates more into 'I'm full right now'.

So I'm thinking -- Mupalit unta ko og dugang nga pagkaon apan busog na ko.

#15 - the word 'gibunyag' is incorrect.

You are baptized now - if 'baptized' is an adjective, the adjective form of bunyag should be used, which is binunyagan. (correct me if i'm wrong)

The passive form is nabunyagan, I think?

I would translate it this way: Ikaw binunyagan (or nabunyagan) na karon.
Conversationally: Binunyagan na ka ron. - where 'ka' is short for 'ikaw' and 'ron' from 'karon'.

I'm trying to do my own translations of those English sentences right now, just for fun.

[mysap]

wow cool im learning...keep it up guys. wala man koy ma contribute

[therealmacoy]

ok to ha... dayon mo. i'm learning too...

[flextime]

Getting back on topic a bit, I have just went over all the revisions given here and I do have a few questions I think I forgot to ask earlier.
a. I just noticed that 'dugang' has a verb prefix 'mu-' before it. Why is this and what does it do to 'dugang'? b. The pronoun in this sentence 'ko' and in #18 'ko' is placed BEFORE the verb; why is this so and is this the norm?
is 'gi-' the passive voice marker?
How about ' nakadaot ang ciudad sa sunog.' Is that a better translation then?
same as #14, 'ko' is placed BEFORE the verb; what's the grammar rule here?
I never found out what 'ma' means here?

I think part of the problem is .... a lot of the people who replied to this thread forgot that there is a difference between Bisaya and Cebuano. As for Cebuano, there is a huge difference between modern Cebuano and the more archaic Cebuano spoken by our grandfathers. I can barely understand the older version of Cebuano. But I will try ...

14. "ko" is usually placed AFTER the verb if the voice is active. The verb in this sentence is MUDUGANG which is the act of adding and not "PALIT". So it follows the usual rule.

15. "gi" is used to denote something that is being done to the subject. I don't know if that's what you call the passive voice marker. For example : gibunyagan ka would mean that the act of baptism was done to you. gabunyag ka would mean that you are doing the act of baptism. "ga" is used to denote that the subject is doing the act. hahaha this is so hard.

17. I don't think anyone still uses the word haros anymore. I had to ask someone what that meant. "nadaot ang siyudad sa sunog" would be the more appropriate way of saying what you wanted to say although "nadaot" would also be the wrong word. "nadaot" usually applies to things that broke down. Like an appliance or a machine. Or something that was partially marred but not destroyed. Like "nadaot ang painting" or "nadaot ang door". But if the city was consumed by fire, then no you can't use "nadaot".

18. A better way of saying it would be "katulo ko nabunyagan sa 2001" but that would imply that he was baptized 3 times in 2001 and not 3 times BY 2001.

20. That's probably a typo. "ma" doesn't mean anything. It would be better to say "kung mas dako iyang gibayad, magpabilin ko."

Ultimately, the main difference between Bisaya and Cebuano is .... Cebuano is a lazy way of speaking Bisaya (ayaw ko awaya please!) and modern Cebuano uses more English words due to a lack of its equivalent in Cebuano.

Bisaya : ulo Cebuano : o
Bisaya : dalan Cebuano : dan
Bisaya : kalayo Cebuano : kayo

That's just an example.

[Tirong-say]

What's important is to emphasize the message
that you wish to convey.