US Auto Bailout Bill fails!

[Primal]

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they should just leave them be and file for bankrupcty just like any other business. It's there fault they came up with stupid and ugly car designs that anyone don't want and cannot afford. And about the worker, let them be trained to do other form of trade or work for other auto company. I jumped from an employer to another employer (laid off usually), its the nature of the beast here in the US. You have to be creative and find ways to get a job.

[cottonmouth]

Buy a Mustang Bullit or GT. It gets more expensive as it gets older...at least that is what I believe. Or maybe am just a dumb fan of that horse.

[chad_tukes]

OT: i'd buy a mustang if i ever decide to ram it head on with another vehicle.

[cottonmouth]

OT: i'd buy a mustang if i ever decide to ram it head on with another vehicle.

OT too: Then you better buy a Volvo. You have a better chance to be still called a two-legged animal when the smoke settles down..

[Dorothea]

Unsaon naman ni oi kung mag file bankruptcy ning US carmakers? Samot na ni ron kadugay maka recover from recession. Basin 10 yrs pa ta usa maka ginhawa ani. I don't think my nerves can take 10 yrs of stress, looking over my shoulder nga basin mga kick out ko's trabaho. Drat! Being an adult sucks!

My dream car is a Dodge Viper, like the one Angelina's got in "Wanted". If Dodge goes under, they might start selling Vipers on clearance. Basin $100 nalang na brand new. Hmnn...

[cottonmouth]

Unsaon naman ni oi kung mag file bankruptcy ning US carmakers? Samot na ni ron kadugay maka recover from recession. Basin 10 yrs pa ta usa maka ginhawa ani. I don't think my nerves can take 10 yrs of stress, looking over my shoulder nga basin mga kick out ko's trabaho. Drat! Being an adult sucks!

My dream car is a Dodge Viper, like the one Angelina's got in "Wanted". If Dodge goes under, they might start selling Vipers on clearance. Basin $100 nalang na brand new. Hmnn...

Don't worry as soon as they'll file bankruptcy somebody will pick-up the pieces. Bankruptcy can also be a good riddance of many bloated UAW benefits. The result could be a re-make of GM or Chrysler into a more competitive automaker. But for the meantime someone should bite the bullet.

[DEMONOCIETY]

grabeha kung manobra pa ng hitaboa ng downfall sa economiya sa US .... soon US will no longer be called a "1st world country"

[Dorothea]

Here's something I got in my e-mail recently:

Below is an editorial written this morning concerning the current situation in Washington with the Big Three Domestic Automakers. I couldn't have said it better myself. This Ford dealer is from Pittsburgh. Please take the time to read. Forward to whomever it might make a difference.



Editor:
As I watched the coverage of the fate of the U.S. auto industry, one alarming and frustrating fact hits me right between the eyes. The fate of our nation's economic survival is in the hands of some congressmen who are completely out of touch and act without knowledge of an industry that affects almost every person in our nation. The same lack of knowledge is shared with many journalists whom are irresponsible when influencing the opinion of millions of viewers.

Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama has doomed the industry, calling it a dinosaur. No Mr. Shelby, you are the dinosaur, with ideas stuck in the '70s, '80s and '90s. You and the uninformed journalist and senators that hold onto myths that are not relevant in today's world.

When you say that the Big Three build vehicles nobody wants to buy, you must have overlooked that GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the U.S. and Ford outsold Honda by 850,000 and Nissan by 1.2 million in the U.S. GM was the world's No. 1 automaker beating Toyota by 3,000 units.

When you claim inferior quality comes from the Big Three, did you realize that Chevy makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion that were both rated over the Camry and Accord by J.D. Power independent survey on initial quality? Did you bother to read the Consumer Report that rated Ford on par with good Japanese automakers.

Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the 33 mpg Malibu that beats the Accord. And for '09 Ford introduces the Hybrid Fusion whose 39 mpg is the best midsize, beating the Camry Hybrid. Ford's Focus beats the Corolla and Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic.

When you ask how many times are we going to bail them out you must be referring to 1980. The only Big Three bailout was Chrysler, who paid back $1 billion, plus interest. GM and Ford have never received government aid.

When you criticize the Big Three for building so many pickups, surely you've noticed the attempts Toyota and Nissan have made spending billions to try to get a piece of that pie. Perhaps it bothers you that for 31 straight years Ford's F-Series has been the best selling vehicle. Ford and GM have dominated this market and when you see the new '09 F-150 you'll agree this won't change soon.

Did you realize that both GM and Ford offer more hybrid models than Nissan or Honda. Between 2005 and 2007, Ford alone has invested more than $22 billion in research and development of technologies such as Eco Boost, flex fuel, clean diesel, hybrids, plug in hybrids and hydrogen cars.

It's 2008 and the quality of the vehicles coming out of Detroit are once again the best in the world.
Perhaps Sen. Shelby isn't really that blind. Maybe he realizes the quality shift to American. Maybe it's the fact that his state of Alabama has given so much to land factories from Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes Benz that he is more concerned about their continued growth than he is about the people of our country. Sen. Shelby's disdain for "government subsidies" is very hypocritical. In the early '90s he was the driving force behind a $253 million incentive package to Mercedes. Plus, Alabama agreed to purchase 2,500 vehicles from Mercedes. While the bridge loan the Big Three is requesting will be paid back, Alabama's $180,000-plus per job was pure incentive. Sen. Shelby, not only are you out of touch, you are a self-serving hypocrite, who is prepared to ruin our nation because of lack of knowledge and lack of due diligence in making your opinions and decisions.

After 9/11, the Detroit Three and Harley Davidson gave $40 million-plus emergency vehicles to the recovery efforts. What was given to the 9/11 relief effort by the Asian and European Auto Manufactures? $0 Nada. Zip!

We live in a world of free trade, world economy and we have not been able to produce products as cost efficiently. While the governments of other auto producing nations subsidize their automakers, our government may be ready to force its demise. While our automakers have paid union wages, benefits and legacy debt, our Asian competitors employ cheap la bor. We are at an extreme disadvantage in production cost. Although many UAW concessions begin in 2010, many lawmakers think it's not enough.

Some point the blame to corporate management. I would like to speak of Ford Motor Co. The company has streamlined by reducing our workforce by 51,000 since 2005, closing 17 plants and cutting expenses. Product and future product is excellent and the company is focused on one Ford. This is a company poised for success. Ford product quality and corporate management have improved light years since the nightmare of Jacques Nasser. Thank you Alan Mulally and the best auto company management team in the business.

The financial collapse caused by the secondary mortgage fiasco and the greed of Wall Street has led to a $700 billion bailout of the industry that created the problem. AIG spent nearly $1 million on three company excursions to lavish resorts and hunting destinations. Paulson is saying no to $250 billion foreclosure relief and the whole thing is a mess. So when the Big Three ask for 4 percent of that of the $700 billion, $25 billion to save the country's largest industry, there is obviously oppositions. But does it make sense to reward the culprits of the problem with $700 billion unconditionally, and ignore the victims?

As a Ford dealer, I feel our portion of the $25 billion will never be touched and is not necessary. Fo rd currently has $29 billion of liquidity. However, the effect of a bankruptcy by GM will hurt the suppliers we all do business with. A Chapter 11 bankruptcy by any manufacture would cost retirees their health care and retirements. Chances are GM would recover from Chapter 11 with a better business plan with much less expense. So who foots the bill if GM or all three go Chapter 11? All that extra health care, unemployment, loss of tax base and some forgiven debt goes back to the taxpayer, us. With no chance of repayment, this would be much worse than a loan with the intent of repayment.

So while it is debatable whether a loan or Chapter 11 is better for the Big Three, a $25 billion loan is definitely better for the taxpayers and the economy of our country.

So I'll end where I began on the quality of the products of Detroit. Before you, Mr. or Ms. Journalist continue to misinform the American public and turn them against one of the great industries that helped build this nation, I must ask you one question. Before you, Mr. or Madam Congressman vote to end health care and retirement benefits for 1 million retirees, eliminate 2.5 million of our nation's jobs, lose the technology that will lead us in the future and create an economic disaster including hundreds of billions of tax dollars lost, I ask this question not in the rhetorical sense. I ask it in the sincere, literal way. Can you tell me, have you driven a Ford lately?

Jim Jackson
Elkins

[cottonmouth]

Hey @dorothea...thanks girl...a good one.

My love for the Mustang is still as hot as ever. Gonna buy one of those beast someday.

[gnox]

Expect more lay-offs .. Bush is pushing for the Detroit Big 3 to go file for Bankruptcy.
I do not support the Detroit Auto Makers because they make inferior products compared to those of their competitors. They're playing catch-up to the Japanese BUT as long as they continue to cut corners, they'll always be at the back seat. Another thing - the Koreans actually bypassed them just this past couple of years -- shameful truth.


It's funny.. when the BIG 3 CEOs first went to Washington to ask for a bailout, they got on their public jets. That trip alone could've paid a dozen plant-worker's monthly salary. They sure are trying to save money - such a classy way to beg the taxpayers for a bailout.

Here's a thought - if FORD, CHRYSLER, GM, etc.. can make a car using high-end components paired with quality craftmanship yet still manage to keep it affordable, then maybe the public would consider them over their Japanese and European counterparts. It is possible.. HYUNDAI did it. But then again - the economy has to get better for people to start buying cars.




There's really whole lot of things to consider when a consumer invests on a vehicle. One of those things is RESALE VALUE. Let's put Saturn as an example:

A Saturn Vue is priced at 23k up to 29K brand new. A 2004 Saturn Vue (USED with 45k miles) is being sold at 7K ... A 68% loss based on the VUE's entry level sticker price.

Now let's put things into perspective.

A Toyota RAV4 is priced at 21.5K to 24.49 (Limited Edition). A 2004 RAV4 with 61K Miles is being sold at 14K. That's a 37% loss in value after 4-5 years of service.

Another example

A Honda CRV is about 20.7K to 26.7K brand new (depends on the trim). A 2004 Honda CRV 4x4 EX trim with 60K Miles is being sold at 15K (original MSRP for a 4x4 EX is 24.15K) ... A 62% resale value.

Now - would you pick a Saturn over it's Japanese competitors?

Ezra, read Dorothea's post and you will see american cars are not that inferior after all and hey I was surprised to see that the best selling car in america today is F150, read it in yahoo news and it has been for 27 years.

Practicality wise even if the resale value of asian cars is triple than it's american counterpart what's the use if I lose my job? It's easy for people to say look for another job but our visa is a hindrance and there are more lay offs than job hiring.

The price of american cars here in michigan is lower that the other states.
hybrid escape will cost $26,000 here but in california almost $33,000 plus the supplier discount.
American cars has good crash rating and other features like sync and on-star.

regarding the jet escapade of the CEOs we are against it and it is a big mistake from their side.
I have no control over it hehe!
if the big three will file for bankcrupty I pity the retirees of these companies. They are too old to look for another job.