The Eucharist

[papart'z]

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nice one.........

[Alel]

I even thought the the eclipse was a miracle, or a supernatural occurence. The truth was, I was ignorant.

Only through knowledge I knew it was nothing more than a natural occurence - under control of Man or not, it do not really matter. The thing is, I learnt it is not a miracle/supernatural once my model of reality widened.

Same goes with this supposed miracles. I came to learn things and unlocked the code of the spiritual, mystical and the 'supernatural' that made me see these seemingly 'unbelievable', miraculous', or 'holy' manifestations under a totally different perspective/model of reality that I harbored in the past. Now, for me, all these things stops being 'miraculous' and now fits with other things I know is definite and real. These things are nothing more astounding than the constant passing of time: Known to all, but greatly misunderstood. I can only hope knowledge can be so easily be imparted - so that we can afford world peace.

Honestly, Im at fault in trying to straighten out our conflicts of views. Its impossible. You are a believer, but I am not. And all this things just hinge on belief and faith. So its rather useless, since ideologically, 'we live in dissimilar, polar and pretty far-flung worlds.'

We simply differ.

If we continue to argue, its rather pointless.

So lets leave it to that: You believe in the notion that the bread and wine really turns to blood. While I think such notion is outlandish - unless proven beyond reasonable doubt. So far, it still remains unproven to the unbaised eye (non-religious a.k.a. us atheists).


This is, I think, is as far as we can go without stepping on each other's toes and call 'Foul'...


Alel

[Raikage]

I even thought the the eclipse was a miracle, or a supernatural occurence. The truth was, I was ignorant.

Only through knowledge I knew it was nothing more than a natural occurence - under control of Man or not, it do not really matter. The thing is, I learnt it is not a miracle/supernatural once my model of reality widened.

Same goes with this supposed miracles. I came to learn things and unlocked the code of the spiritual, mystical and the 'supernatural' that made me see these seemingly 'unbelievable', miraculous', or 'holy' manifestations under a totally different perspective/model of reality that I harbored in the past. Now, for me, all these things stops being 'miraculous' and now fits with other things I know is definite and real. These things are nothing more astounding than the constant passing of time: Known to all, but greatly misunderstood. I can only hope knowledge can be so easily be imparted - so that we can afford world peace.

Honestly, Im at fault in trying to straighten out our conflicts of views. Its impossible. You are a believer, but I am not. And all this things just hinge on belief and faith. So its rather useless, since ideologically, 'we live in dissimilar, polar and pretty far-flung worlds.'

We simply differ.

If we continue to argue, its rather pointless.

So lets leave it to that: You believe in the notion that the bread and wine really turns to blood. While I think such notion is outlandish - unless proven beyond reasonable doubt. So far, it still remains unproven to the unbaised eye (non-religious a.k.a. us atheists).


This is, I think, is as far as we can go without stepping on each other's toes and call 'Foul'...


Alel

I would suggest you go out on a quest to know .....sometimes its very difficult to convince some1
thru words....deeds and actions would be the best way to explain.

I even witness some faith healers...wearing shirts shouting Jesus Christ...But I believe they were
hoax, it think it was the hand faster than the eye thing. I was amazed by the trick....although I
didnot see how it was done, I can sense that it was a trick....shame on that faith healer.

Faith is a personal thing, it is also subjective. But the RC teaches what we believe is true. And it
is the duty of every RC to defend their faith and to spread it.

And I believe miracles do happen. And the proof is U! how did u come alive? do u hv a soul? well, my dad just died recently and I can say that we really do have a soul, and it is more important than
the body!

Scientists cannot make the dead alive......if they can bring back the dead alive, w/ a conscience
and with free will and thinking, then i would start to question , but till then, all else is shifting sand.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

@ ALEL ... I dont think we argued . I firmly believed that we are more inclined in the sharing of IDEAS on WHAT WE KNOW . Anyways , I also respect your point of views . I myself havent seen this " MIRACLES " but people I know dearly witnessed it . There is no more reason for me to be a more BELIEVER just to BELIEVE .

On your side , if your interested , I would like invite you for a gathering in the near future to showcase you some prints , pictures , books , documents and any types of concrete evidences of the said TRANSFORMATION . Hopefully in the enar future . Bro , this is not a form of choking you to believe me nor a way of trying to convert you . No one can do that other than yourself . My only goal is not even to prove my point but just to " entertain " you rather than enlighten you .

[Alel]

Scientists cannot make the dead alive......if they can bring back the dead alive, w/ a conscience
and with free will and thinking, then i would start to question , but till then, all else is shifting sand.

[/quote]

Well yeah, I agree...No-one can... (At least that is what I think - since I dont believe in all things 'spiritual'.)

I would suggest you go out on a quest to know .....sometimes its very difficult to convince some1
thru words....deeds and actions would be the best way to explain.

Im not gonna claim that I know enough about everything. But I know I know enough about the nature of spirituality, occult, mysticism and the likes. Spending time being a magician and as someone who invited the idea in the past about going 'rogue' and be a faux-psychic, that is one of the things I had to learn. And so far, my knowledge base about these things had satisfactorily answered all spiritual and occult manifestations, to the extent that I am more or less capable of doing them myself.

And again, having an open-mind is a must. But no too open, of course. (Another subjective standard.)

Faith is a personal thing, it is also subjective. But the RC teaches what we believe is true. And it
is the duty of every RC to defend their faith and to spread it.

That's your stand. I understand you. (But whether or not I tolerate it is another question. )

And I believe miracles do happen. And the proof is U! how did u come alive? do u hv a soul? well, my dad just died recently and I can say that we really do have a soul, and it is more important than
the body!

Its 'amazing' that I exist. But IMO, not 'miraculous'...Hehe

I even witness some faith healers...wearing shirts shouting Jesus Christ...But I believe they were
hoax, it think it was the hand faster than the eye thing. I was amazed by the trick....although I
didnot see how it was done, I can sense that it was a trick....shame on that faith healer.

Someone who had faith on that said faith-healer would be blind of what he did.
Suspension of critical thinking and outside beliefs is always the case when it comes to being faithful.

Heck, if I have the most twisted of all morals, I could start my own cult/religion using what I know. All I need is invite those interested (the 'spiritually disturbed/desperate' WOULD take the bait). Then all I need to do is make such a claim that I am a 'messenger', 'prophet', 'angel', or what, and all I need to do 'supernatural' acts that I present as evidence of my claims and feed them to the 'spiritually hungry'. They would gladly swallow it to fill what is 'empty inside them', and then it naturally follows that they would worship me. Its is always this case and it will always be this way. Its human nature.


Alel

[bcasabee]

Bro Alel. If this Eucharistic miracle did happen, then it is really a miracle. What are we supposed to call it then?

I even thought the the eclipse was a miracle, or a supernatural occurence. The truth was, I was ignorant.
Alel

[Alel]

Bro Alel. If this Eucharistic miracle did happen, then it is really a miracle. What are we supposed to call it then?

My point is: Is it really what it seems to be?

Or is it just your perception of what really happened? (Hard to tell which one really, isn't it? )

Just an internal question that you might as well ask yourself thinking about it.


Alel

[bcasabee]

@Alel brod. Well, you said it, its hard to tell which is which. Anyway, my belief isn't really founded on the so called miracles that happened to so and so. My belief is rooted in something more intellectual rather than what the senses can see.

[Alel]

@Alel brod. Well, you said it, its hard to tell which is which. Anyway, my belief isn't really founded on the so called miracles that happened to so and so. My belief is rooted in something more intellectual rather than what the senses can see.

Well, mine is, too.

In my point of view, it would not be hard to tell which is which, since I am 'hardwired' about these things. What I will find impossible to tell which is which is about what others that are not 'hardwired' about these things see. If only I could just directly tap into other people's memory. I can't. Some people here is aware that language can contaminate the communication process in many ways, sadly. Also man's malleable memory can do more harm than good.


Alel

[Raikage]

Well yeah, I agree...No-one can... (At least that is what I think - since I dont believe in all things 'spiritual'.)

Yes! but Jesus Can!


Im not gonna claim that I know enough about everything. But I know I know enough about the nature of spirituality, occult, mysticism and the likes. Spending time being a magician and as someone who invited the idea in the past about going 'rogue' and be a faux-psychic, that is one of the things I had to learn. And so far, my knowledge base about these things had satisfactorily answered all spiritual and occult manifestations, to the extent that I am more or less capable of doing them myself.

And again, having an open-mind is a must. But no too open, of course. (Another subjective standard.)

No one knows everything, this is a given! God created us to question but the challenge is to believe.


That's your stand. I understand you. (But whether or not I tolerate it is another question. )




Its 'amazing' that I exist. But IMO, not 'miraculous'...Hehe

well, I use the word for lack of word which the world could never explain.....



Someone who had faith on that said faith-healer would be blind of what he did.
Suspension of critical thinking and outside beliefs is always the case when it comes to being faithful.

Heck, if I have the most twisted of all morals, I could start my own cult/religion using what I know. All I need is invite those interested (the 'spiritually disturbed/desperate' WOULD take the bait). Then all I need to do is make such a claim that I am a 'messenger', 'prophet', 'angel', or what, and all I need to do 'supernatural' acts that I present as evidence of my claims and feed them to the 'spiritually hungry'. They would gladly swallow it to fill what is 'empty inside them', and then it naturally follows that they would worship me. Its is always this case and it will always be this way. Its human nature.


Alel[/QUOTE]


That's my point...being subjective. and it is the duty of the RC head, the successor of Peter to align it according to the truth and teaching on which we believe.