No Longer Under a LAW?

[brownprose]

---

hmmm.. bro, haven't you read the story about

Abraham? your views sound opposite to what the story shows, right?

Abraham felt sad. He had waited so long for a son, and he didn't want to give

Isaac away. But Abraham Obeyed God.

What did God said to Abraham?
Genesis 22:18 - and through your offspring [b] all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have Obeyed Me."

1. Do you really think that Abraham did it out of MECHANICAL OBEDIENCE?
2. Was it a case of obedience to The Law? (Remember, there wasn't any Mosaic Law yet)

If you say NO to any of the above, it only means that you're use confused with your example about OBEDIENCE OF THE LAW.

If you really read your Bible well enough to understand the significance of ancient Jewish tradition and their socio-political structure, The Law (rituals and the decalogue) was as a necessary promulgation to establish order (or least some form of government) since they were just fresh out of Egypt. However, Moses chose for the Israelites a theocratic government in which it combines both the ritual/ceremonial and legal/moral (The Decalogue) framework to govern their social, religious and even political life.

All through time, the Israelites never understood the essence of those promulgations as if the law was all that mattered that they even thought that the achievement of absolute moral perfection was only through those laws. That's why Jesus clarified that it is love not the law that will make one justified before God.

Also, the law was not meant to be the final and complete set of God's instructions to mankind. Otherwise, it becomes obligatory/perfunctory like what the Pharisees did. The same is true for Christians, if it takes to just follow The Law in order to be justified, then a Christian can just sit around all day and do exactly what the law or the ten commandments say.

Thus, mere observance of the laws is no evidence of virtue at all. In fact, The Law is not to be made as a reason for justification because it is like boasting. Romans 2:7 "Now if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast of God."

Second, Jesus taught that the proper way to keep any commandment was to fulfill the purpose for which it was given. Thus, when Jesus said, "If you love me keep my commandments" he did not mean doing what you are told to, but keeping the the essence of what you're told to do -- which is to love. That is why it is called the NEW (John 13:34) and THE GREATEST (Matthew 22:36-40) COMMANDMENT that it is even greater than the law. This is precisely the truth and refutes all those who think that by being a "law-Keeper" makes one morally safe.

Third, The Law was originally designed for the ancient Israelites and that Paul even clarified that it is not right to force the law (Moses Laws, Sabbath, circumcision etc...) since for practical reasons, Gentiles would never be able to observe them as the Jews. Romans 2:29 "Rather, one is a Jew inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart, in the spirit, not the letter; his praise is not from human beings but from God."

Fourth, God is equal to law-keepers and non-law keepers (Rom 11:4-5). So, it doesn't matter whether you're a keeper of the law or not (Jew or Gentile) 4 There is no partiality with God. 5 All who sin outside the law will also perish without reference to it, and all who sin under the law will be judged in accordance with it.

Fifth, the law has been done away with by Christ. In Galatians 3:10, 10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." 1) 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 2) 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." 3) 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."[d] 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Paul describes succinctly that Jesus broke the curse of the law by becoming a "curse" himself so The Law (rituals and the Sabbath/Decalogue) may not be a burden/rigid to NON-JEWS/Gentiles like us. Besides, and as I have said, the law was originally intended for the Jews not for the Gentiles.

So between The Law and Love do you think the law makes you any better?

I would rather see a loving atheist than a christian who follows the Bible to the dot yet who doesn't even know how to love an atheist.

if you were Abraham? could you do such and obey God without Love?
it simply emphasize that Obedience is a sign of Loving God.

What Abraham did wasn't all about obedience of/to the law at all. Abraham's case was a test of Abraham's loyalty that obedience was all that was necessary to validate his faith even under extreme stress. The story about Isaac's sacrifice was highlighted to provide a shining example the triumph of the human will to fulfill the will of God in face of an impossible test.

On another note, have you ever wondered how many occasions David disobeyed God and yet God knew how he loved Him? Being "disobedient" at times doesn't mean you are not loving God at all. It's a recognition of our human tendency to fall or the fact about our imperfection. That's why I said, that absolute moral perfection cannot be attained by being too biblically legalistic or too "Law" oriented. We need to transcend beyond mere obedience for it is not how many laws one has complied with it but by how much love you give that defines a christian.

it's another story brother and it's all about "Presumptuous". if you may read

the Bible there's a lot of lines regarding presumptuous.

God Bless.

That's exactly my point. Mere obedience (to the law) is another measure of being too presumptuous. In practical terms, to be patriotic isn't always being obedient to Philippine laws. There are too many Filipinos who are very law-abiding but not necessarily patriotic at all. The same with the law-keepers...there's just too many of them that it dilutes/reduce the essence of devotion to and love for God to merely compliance.

[r3roble]

ipadayon ang pagbasa ayawg hunong sa verse 34 diba makasabot lagi nganong nakaingon si Cristo ana...

Mat 10:34 Do not have the thought that I have come to send peace on the earth; I came not to send peace but a sword.

Mat 10:35 For I have come to put a man against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law:

Mat 10:36 And a man will be hated by those of his house.

Mat 10:37 He who has more love for his father or mother than for me is not good enough for me; he who has more love for son or daughter than for me is not good enough for me.

Mat 10:40 He who receives you receives me.

[newtonscousin]

1. Do you really think that Abraham did it out of MECHANICAL OBEDIENCE?
2. Was it a case of obedience to The Law? (Remember, there wasn't any Mosaic Law yet)

If you say NO to any of the above, it only means that you're use confused with your example about OBEDIENCE OF THE LAW.

If you really read your Bible well enough to understand the significance of ancient Jewish tradition and their socio-political structure, The Law (rituals and the decalogue) was as a necessary promulgation to establish order (or least some form of government) since they were just fresh out of Egypt. However, Moses chose for the Israelites a theocratic government in which it combines both the ritual/ceremonial and legal/moral (The Decalogue) framework to govern their social, religious and even political life.

All through time, the Israelites never understood the essence of those promulgations as if the law was all that mattered that they even thought that the achievement of absolute moral perfection was only through those laws. That's why Jesus clarified that it is love not the law that will make one justified before God.

Also, the law was not meant to be the final and complete set of God's instructions to mankind. Otherwise, it becomes obligatory/perfunctory like what the Pharisees did. The same is true for Christians, if it takes to just follow The Law in order to be justified, then a Christian can just sit around all day and do exactly what the law or the ten commandments say.

Thus, mere observance of the laws is no evidence of virtue at all. In fact, The Law is not to be made as a reason for justification because it is like boasting. Romans 2:7 "Now if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast of God."

Second, Jesus taught that the proper way to keep any commandment was to fulfill the purpose for which it was given. Thus, when Jesus said, "If you love me keep my commandments" he did not mean doing what you are told to, but keeping the the essence of what you're told to do -- which is to love. That is why it is called the NEW (John 13:34) and THE GREATEST (Matthew 22:36-40) COMMANDMENT that it is even greater than the law. This is precisely the truth and refutes all those who think that by being a "law-Keeper" makes one morally safe.

Third, The Law was originally designed for the ancient Israelites and that Paul even clarified that it is not right to force the law (Moses Laws, Sabbath, circumcision etc...) since for practical reasons, Gentiles would never be able to observe them as the Jews. Romans 2:29 "Rather, one is a Jew inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart, in the spirit, not the letter; his praise is not from human beings but from God."

Fourth, God is equal to law-keepers and non-law keepers (Rom 11:4-5). So, it doesn't matter whether you're a keeper of the law or not (Jew or Gentile) 4 There is no partiality with God. 5 All who sin outside the law will also perish without reference to it, and all who sin under the law will be judged in accordance with it.

Fifth, the law has been done away with by Christ. In Galatians 3:10, 10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." 1) 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 2) 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." 3) 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."[d] 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Paul describes succinctly that Jesus broke the curse of the law by becoming a "curse" himself so The Law (rituals and the Sabbath/Decalogue) may not be a burden/rigid to NON-JEWS/Gentiles like us. Besides, and as I have said, the law was originally intended for the Jews not for the Gentiles.

So between The Law and Love do you think the law makes you any better?

I would rather see a loving atheist than a christian who follows the Bible to the dot yet who doesn't even know how to love an atheist.



What Abraham did wasn't all about obedience of/to the law at all. Abraham's case was a test of Abraham's loyalty that obedience was all that was necessary to validate his faith even under extreme stress. The story about Isaac's sacrifice was highlighted to provide a shining example the triumph of the human will to fulfill the will of God in face of an impossible test.

On another note, have you ever wondered how many occasions David disobeyed God and yet God knew how he loved Him? Being "disobedient" at times doesn't mean you are not loving God at all. It's a recognition of our human tendency to fall or the fact about our imperfection. That's why I said, that absolute moral perfection cannot be attained by being too biblically legalistic or too "Law" oriented. We need to transcend beyond mere obedience for it is not how many laws one has complied with it but by how much love you give that defines a christian.



That's exactly my point. Mere obedience (to the law) is another measure of being too presumptuous. In practical terms, to be patriotic isn't always being obedient to Philippine laws. There are too many Filipinos who are very law-abiding but not necessarily patriotic at all. The same with the law-keepers...there's just too many of them that it dilutes/reduce the essence of devotion to and love for God to merely compliance.

Got your entire point bro and thanks. What I’m trying to picture out about Abraham is clearly the importance of obedience. Yes it’s not about obeying to the Law but it’s about obeying what did Jesus Christ telling us to do even though we have enough to reason out.

Remember what happened in the Garden of Eden? We suffer now because of that simple disobedience.

James 2 (about faith)
23 - And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 - Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Are you done watching the video? Your views explain that the Royal Law written by God was also gone away after His death but the Bible explain clearly that a group of laws were done away with and a group of laws are still standing. There is the Mosaic Law, written by Mosses on paper and put next to the ark, and there is the 10 Commandment Laws, written by God Himself on stone and put with in the Ark of the Covenant.

The Mosaic Laws are laws full of types and symbols that pointed forward to the coming of Christ. Yes these were done away with. For example, the sacrificial offerings were part of the Mosaic Law. The lamb being offered as a sacrifice for sin represented Christ Himself as our eternal sacrifice. Thus, when Christ died on the cross all these ceremonies, sacrificial services and specific holidays were all nailed to the cross. When the veil in the temple at Jerusalem, separating the Holy from the Most Holy place, tore from top to bottom this was an indication that the Mosaic Laws were no longer binding. So we know that Jesus was not talking about these laws because He Himself came to fulfill them. The 10 Commandments contain no symbols and therefore could fulfill nothing in the death of Christ.

So the 10 Commandments of Jesus Christ is still in effect even when the new Heaven and Earth come and it only means that His Law is futuristic.

Your comments is very much welcome for my further study. Thanks in advance.

God Bless.

[Hellblazer 2.1]

pastilan oi.. manigbas na sad nang imong kristo?

what he quoted in the bible verse is exactly what it says. though, nobody has ever explained it accurately. could it be that jesus the christ was a radical leader also?

[Pein]

what he quoted in the bible verse is exactly what it says. though, nobody has ever explained it accurately. could it be that jesus the christ was a radical leader also?

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

spiritual kung musulti si Cristo. mao nang kung nakabasa mog "sword" sa Mat. 10:34, ayaw i literal ang inyong hunahuna kay masayop jud mo...

sampol:

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

kung imong literalon pagsabot na nga verse ang labas sa mga Cristiano puro mga buta ug pungkol...

ang "sword" nga buot ipasabot ni Cristo sa Mat. 10:34 is "word of God". dia ang proof:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

atong balikon ang Mat. 10:34 ha:

Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword(word of God).

kinsay motutol?