Everything about : RH Bill ( Reproductive Health Bill)

[mannyamador]

Why do you keep attacking my thick skull when you cannot even show me what I've always asked from you as a favor?

First, you don't ask a for favor by insulting people. I find that you are emotional, arrogant, and have no tolerance for disagreement. Why should you be getting any favors from me?

Second, follow the links. Stop being lazy. The link to Postfertilization Effects of Oral Contraceptives and Their Relationship to Informed Consent has the full text of the study. This is a peer-reviewed document. The links to the Physician's Prescribing Info contain the full texts of approved documentation (to which, I may add, Bayer (the manufacturer) can be held legally liable). There are many other studies cited in the first document alone. If you want all the parameters of those, read them.

Third, you have demonstrated that you do not have the objectivity or rational capacity to evaluate the studies. The studies I have cited have been subject to peer review and have withstood the test. You, on the other hand, have not even been able to meet your own standards for proof.

Fourth, YOU have to comply with your own standards. You demand for proof, but YOU have NOT shown a single study that backs up your claims. NOT A SINGLE ONE. So, show me the same things that YOU demand: Show me the study DETAILS, study parameters, post all the info here. And please give me the guidelines of what PERFECT usage really means. Did the "researchers" put the women in CONTROLLED conditions for one whole year to ensure 100% PERFECT compliance? Can the researchers RULE OUT any other factor that could have affected the integrity of their research?

Of course you can't do any of that because you have nothing. You're only full of hot air. So where's YOUR proof?. Oh.... zero.... bwahahahaha!!!!

Now, will you just give me more EXCUSES?

Did you even read a single statement from medical literature that said that ABORTION happened DEFINITIVELY, because of the use of OCs?

You really have no clue as to how these studies are conducted, do you? Many drug mechanisms are not directly observable. Even mechanisms of early pregnancies are not directly observable either and are deduced from indirect effects. This is a common scientific practice. Sub-atomic particles are not directly observable either, but we deduce their existence and properties through indirect means. Now, tell me how you account for the difference in breakthrough ovulation rates and detected breakthrough pregnancy. Did fairies snatch them?

I DID CUT UP those mice and SAW WITH MY OWN EYES what I wanted to see.

Bwahahaha! And you saw the contraceptive in action? Moving around in there eh? You're seeing things. .

The thing is, if you want to advocate BANNING something, MIGHT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Are you out of your mind? A great many chemicals are banned because they MIGHT cause cancer or some adverse effect in humans. Red headlights are banned on motor vehicles because they MIGHT cause accidents (not that any such accidents have ever been recorded in the Philippines). Even paper cutters are banned on our airlines because they MIGHT be used as weapons. Get your head out of your ass and look around you.

Substances and devices get banned NOT because of absolute certainty but because of low but still unacceptable levels of probability. If a substance is going to be used by millions of people, and the suspected effect is grave (such as death or some dreaded disease) the threshold of acceptability gets lower.

In the case of abortifacients, tens of millions of women use them and the grave effect that might occur is death of a unborn human being. Even a single death is one too many, and the calculated probability is that there will be millions of such deaths after a few years.

You are deliberately being absurd and unreasonable. But let's get real. The real reason your giving this BS is because you just can't stand being proven wrong. You just can't stand the fact that I KICKED YOUR ASS and BURIED YOU IN EVIDENCE. Get off your throne and stop being a pompous queen.

It is good that you asked me that because, as far as I know, REDUCES THE LIKELIHOOD is not exactly an unequivocal statement, is it.

That's another logical error. For example, contraceptives do not ABSOLUTELY ELIMINATE ovulation. They only reduce the likelihood of ovulation. In fact, some low-dose POPs reduce it only around half the time. Does that mean contraceptives don't stop ovulation at all? You've just contradicted yourself again.

And besides, not to nitpick or anything, even in the use of the word BAN, I don't think you're being entirely appropriate.

You seem to have this habit of not reading entire sentences. Do you difficulty handling more than two words at a time? I said Abortifacients should be banned as contraceptives or birth control methods. Is there a part of that you can't understand?

As for me being SEXIST, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? After all, you were the one who used these famous words: "And a LOT of men know far more about the scientific and ethical issues involved than women..."

I made a statement of fact. There ARE a lot of men who know the issues involved more than women. That does not mean there aren't also a lot of women who know the issues too. And you also left out the important part: that gender has nothing to do with being able to make such a discernment. Is it asking too m uch of you to just NDERSTAND what's being said before you make silly comments?

The truth is that you are SEXIST, which is a form of prejudice. Disgustingly so.

I did say I am not gonna comment anymore on this matter. But I COULDN'T HELP IT!

And you made a hilarious spectacle of yourself once again. All twisted reasoning, NO PROOF! Ever thought of becoming a clown? Then we both can have a good laugh. (ejoks!)

That really was a joke ok? Look, if you want to continue this in a more civil manner, let's do it over coffee. My treat. Any good coffee spot in Cebu City. Send me a PM here. Fair enough?

[wng]

pero bro correct me if i'm wrong..i have talked to a few men...dili nuon daghan a handful lang so basin dili to sila representative sa general opinion jud sa mga lalaki...pero against kaayo sila sa vasectomy...for some reason they believed "makuhaan ilang pag ka lalaki"...which we know is foolish...pero ask lang ko as a man...unsa imong opinion sad sa vasectomy? nya unsa sad kadaghanan opinion sa mga guys ani if you know...kindly share...

kay you know what ...naa sa Sacred Heart Hospital...no scalpel vasectomy....almost painless...FREE pa jud....didto nako gi pa higot akong bana he he he

I think what he said was not vasectomy but castration as a birth control method.

Feedback nako about vasectomy, well-informed man hinuon most guys ana nga di gyud unta na maka affect. Pero even if it's not physical, there's always a psychological and emotional effect. If you ask my opinion, prefer lang ko ug lain method, because naa pa man lain choice...

[cottonmouth]

Is the Philippines overpopulated?

By Mong Palatino
Column: Peripheries

Manila, Philippines — The Philippines is the 14th most populous country in the world and third in the Southeast Asian region. Young dependents comprise 34 percent of the population, 62 percent belong to the working-age group and 4 percent are categorized as elderly dependents. Scholars have estimated that the large youth population will continue until the year 2040, but the working-age population and the number of senior citizens will increase much faster.
The Philippines has one of the fastest-growing populations in the world. During the 1980s, the Philippines and Thailand had the same population level of around 55 million. Today, Thailand has 60 million while the Philippines has 88 million. A European diplomat recently noted that 200 years ago there were more Scots (1.7 million) than there were Filipinos (1.6 million). Today, Scotland has a population of only 5 million.

Many economists insist that a high population growth results in lower per capita income and higher poverty incidence. High fertility rates result in poor education access and quality, malnutrition, environmental degradation, resource depletion, a decrease in household resources, limited economic opportunities for women, an increase in maternal and child mortality and abortion rates. In short, as family size increases, there is reduction in investment in human capital.

But there are groups led by the Catholic Church which maintain that a high population growth is not a problem. There is even a respected politician who once asserted that 88 million Filipinos could live in the small island of Bohol. There are scholars who view the young population of the Philippines as the most valuable resource of the country. They remind the public how many governments of developed countries are encouraging their citizens to bear many children to offset the negative consequences of an aging population.

They assert that poverty is not caused by overpopulation. They blame corruption in society, especially in government, which deprives the poor of vital social services. That the income share of the richest 10 percent of the population is more than 20 times the income of the poorest 10 percent proves that inequality, not overpopulation, is the principal problem of the country.

The population policies of the government claim to promote responsible parenthood, respect for life, birth spacing and informed choice. But there is still no comprehensive and well-defined population management program in the country. Politicians are afraid to antagonize the Catholic Church which rejects all artificial methods of family planning. There are many local government officials who removed funding support for reproductive health services, which denied the people their right to choose the appropriate family planning method for their families.

Scholars are appealing to the Catholic Church hierarchy and other religious groups "to take a more tolerant and humane position on the need for a state-supported population policy backed by a responsive family planning program."

Dr. Ernesto M. Pernia, an economist, has a provocative comment on the link between religion and economic growth. He said that religion in terms of belief in afterlife and fear of hell is good for economic growth while mere church attendance has the opposite effect. He compares the Philippines and the Catholic-dominated Latin American societies with East Asian Buddhist countries. He noted that the wealth, economic performance, political instability, boom-and-bust cycles and lavish spending on fiestas in the Philippines and Latin American countries are strikingly similar. Pernia thinks the Philippines is more suited to belong to Latin America than East Asia.

The Philippines' lower economic standing than Latin American countries seems to be the only notable difference. Pernia asks a daring question: Could it be that in the Philippines the Catholic Church hierarchy has been overly conservative and intolerant, while those in Latin American countries are more liberal and tolerant, with respect to population policy and family planning programs?

Politicians should listen to the sentiments of the people rather than blindly obeying the sermons of priests. Recent surveys reveal that more than 90 percent of the population thinks that ability to control fertility and plan a family is important while 89 percent thinks that government should provide budgetary support for modern methods of family planning including the pill, IUD, condoms, tubal ligation and vasectomy.

It is correct to emphasize that the economic problems of the Philippines are not rooted in rapid population growth alone. We can cite corruption, inequity and bad economic policies as major factors why the country has not progressed. But we cannot also deny the link between population and poverty. Slowing down population growth will enable the country to invest more in human capital.

Managing population should not be equated with abortion as some religious leaders claim. Promoting reproductive health rights is a social justice issue. Respecting the family size preference and family planning method of couples affirm the human rights of women.

[mannyamador]

Why blame family size?
By Malou Guanzon-Apalisok
Cebu Daily News
First Posted 13:07:00 10/02/2008

In pushing for a national population policy, advocates of the Reproductive Health Bill emphasize the relationship between family size and poverty. They point to statistics such as three babies born every minute, 225 Filipino children dying daily from poverty-related diseases and 10 mothers who succumb every day due to pregnancy and childbirth-related complications. They point out that the situation highlights the relevance of family planning because a high population growth rate takes a toll on resources and hinders human development.

The views derive from the United Nations Development Programme assumptions that see a correlation between human development index and annual population growth/total fertility rates.

Based on UNDP theory, the Philippines cannot hope to achieve high human development if it fails to check population growth currently pegged at 2.3 percent. There is a tendency to compare us with countries in Europe, which, although Catholic, have embraced artificial family planning methods including abortion.

I assume the stats to be fairly accurate and realistic but according to the World Health Organization, 99 percent of maternal and infant deaths due to childbirth complications are preventable. In other words, the deaths could have been avoided had there been adequate medical intervention by government health workers.

It would be kind for legislators to tell the public how much pork barrel was spent in the construction of new hospitals or the upgrading of old ones because that would have gone a long way in reducing infants and maternal death toll.

Still, we need only to look around us. Flyovers, reclamation projects, highways, bridges, government offices dot cities and the countryside. The construction of this type of infrastructure will most likely continue next year judging from the breakdown of the proposed P1.415-trillion national budget for 2009.

A huge P120 billion has been allocated for the Department of Public Works and Highways but the Department of Health gets only a measly P27.8 billion. No wonder fewer hospitals are being built. In fact, while private hospitals boast of modern medical equipment, public institutions are poorly staffed and ill-equipped.

Instead of addressing the pressing needs of the public health system, RH bill proponents would rather commit government funds in family planning commodities.

Under HB 5043, artificial family planning methods like tubal ligation, vasectomy, and intrauterine device insertion will be made available in all public hospitals. Government will purchase hormonal contraceptives, condoms, intrauterine devices, and other "essential medicines" to implement the state policy. Artificial family planning services will become the focus of public health service to the detriment of the country’s primary health care system.

The poverty that stalks our land is not because of overpopulation but misuse of public funds and unchecked government corruption. A classic example is the controversial purchase of decorative lamps used during the 12th ASEAN Summit. The project was clearly overpriced and unjustified but government went ahead with the purchase. Now some sectors want the lampposts taken down because they’re an eyesore. I say don’t, so voters will be reminded about the shameless waste and the people responsible for it.

The claim that big families take a toll on resources is a fallacy because if people are educated and have equal access to jobs and business opportunities, they become engines of economic growth. Human resource has made China (population: over 1.3 billion) and India (1.1 billion) major players in the elite nations of the world. On the other hand, Italy (0.2 percent population growth), Spain, Poland, Austria and Ireland (0.3 percent) France (0.7 percent), face staggering problems brought about by a graying population.

“Population growth is a multiplier of wealth; it is a driver of economic growth and creates opportunities for entrepreneurs,” states Steven Mosher, president of the Population Research Institute and long-time critic of United Nations policies that attack population growth in poor countries. Mosher stressed one need only to “cast a glance at dying Europe or moribund Japan, to be proven wrong.”

--
No to Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043) Petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/xxhb5043/petition.html

Kill Bill 5043
http://www.prolife.cfcinternationalmissions.com/

[Gwynhuever]

I think what he said was not vasectomy but castration as a birth control method.

Feedback nako about vasectomy, well-informed man hinuon most guys ana nga di gyud unta na maka affect. Pero even if it's not physical, there's always a psychological and emotional effect. If you ask my opinion, prefer lang ko ug lain method, because naa pa man lain choice...

thanks for sharing...curious ko sa psychological/emotional effect nga imo gi mention kay naa man gud ko mga pamangkins nga i-encourage jud unta nako ani...instead nga ang wives ang mag pills....pero morag gahi man kaayo ang mga lalaki pa agree-hon ani nga option....

[wng]

Why blame family size?

For the simple reason that the family sizes of poor Filipinos are very large. And if you ask most of them, they were born into poverty and will also die in poverty. Most people who open their eyes and ears know that.

The views derive from the United Nations Development Programme assumptions that see a correlation between human development index and annual population growth/total fertility rates.

Of course they assume that, because there is no country which achieved both very high human development growth rate and population growth rate at the same time. Can you even cite which countries (aside from microstates or those that have very low population density) which experienced an economic boom and a natural population boom (not caused by migration) simultaneously in modern times?

I assume the stats to be fairly accurate and realistic but according to the World Health Organization, 99 percent of maternal and infant deaths due to childbirth complications are preventable.

Which is why this bill covers maternal care and other services that are part of Reproductive Health, not only contraceptives. This bill will actually increase budget. And don't know where this guy got his sources, but 99% preventable is definitely skewed if applied in the Philippines.

A huge P120 billion has been allocated for the Department of Public Works and Highways but the Department of Health gets only a measly P27.8 billion. No wonder fewer hospitals are being built. In fact, while private hospitals boast of modern medical equipment, public institutions are poorly staffed and ill-equipped.

Instead of addressing the pressing needs of the public health system, RH bill proponents would rather commit government funds in family planning commodities.

Those who are living and already born in this world need the highways, roads, and flyovers. And don't forget that a LOT of us pay for our own health care expenses including whatever birth expenses, child rearing expenses, education expenses, and contraceptive expenses. Of course we're not going to DIRECTLY pay for the construction of a flyover! It is only appropriate that the government considers paying for contraceptives rather than having the rest of the tax payers pay for these expenses of an UNWANTED child from a couple who do not pay any taxes and cannot afford to raise 2 children, but somehow have 7!

Under HB 5043, artificial family planning methods like tubal ligation, vasectomy, and intrauterine device insertion will be made available in all public hospitals. Government will purchase hormonal contraceptives, condoms, intrauterine devices, and other "essential medicines" to implement the state policy. Artificial family planning services will become the focus of public health service to the detriment of the country’s primary health care system.

That means then that there will be a larger budget for each baby born, rather than have a measly budget because of uncontrolled birth rates.

The poverty that stalks our land is not because of overpopulation but misuse of public funds and unchecked government corruption. A classic example is the controversial purchase of decorative lamps used during the 12th ASEAN Summit. The project was clearly overpriced and unjustified but government went ahead with the purchase. Now some sectors want the lampposts taken down because they’re an eyesore. I say don’t, so voters will be reminded about the shameless waste and the people responsible for it.

Yes, the only thing we agree on is that there is corruption in the government. But it's about RESPONSIBLE parenthood. Again I say, yes, our government is corrupt enough to overprice lamp posts during the ASEAN Summit. And you can cite so many other corruption scandals. But that does not mean that people should just breed like rabbits because the government is corrupt. A couple asking government assistance for raising one child because they are so poor may be justifiable, but a couple having 6 children and asking government handouts or having their children beg on the streets, is just too much.

The claim that big families take a toll on resources is a fallacy because if people are educated and have equal access to jobs and business opportunities, they become engines of economic growth. Human resource has made China (population: over 1.3 billion) and India (1.1 billion) major players in the elite nations of the world.

Which begs the question because the government also cannot afford more public education funds. And thus, no hope for EQUAL access to jobs and business opportunities. India and China both have lower population growth than the Philippines now.

On the other hand, Italy (0.2 percent population growth), Spain, Poland, Austria and Ireland (0.3 percent) France (0.7 percent), face staggering problems brought about by a graying population.

They have problems as every country or every family does, but staggering? Compared to scandals and riots in China and India? Not really.

“Population growth is a multiplier of wealth; it is a driver of economic growth and creates opportunities for entrepreneurs,” states Steven Mosher, president of the Population Research Institute and long-time critic of United Nations policies that attack population growth in poor countries. Mosher stressed one need only to “cast a glance at dying Europe or moribund Japan, to be proven wrong.”

An increase in population may increase GDP as you mentioned. But the GDP per capita will surely decrease if your only criteria is the person can produce more than he consumes. Are you advocating a subsistence existence? Just produce enough so people can eat? I am for the improvement of the Philippine economy, so that we will have a GDP per capita comparable to our Asian neighbors. Not millions who are on a hand-to-mouth existence like so many in Bangladesh and Ethiopia. Dying Europe? Moribund Japan? Who is this guy kidding? Their economies might not be that vibrant this year or even this decade. Their human development index and GDP per capita remain sky high compared to the Philippines. To say that Europe is "dying" while Bangladesh and Ethiopia are flourishing should surely be a joke.

[ronaYo]

The poverty that stalks our land is not because of overpopulation but misuse of public funds and unchecked government corruption. A classic example is the controversial purchase of decorative lamps used during the 12th ASEAN Summit. The project was clearly overpriced and unjustified but government went ahead with the purchase. Now some sectors want the lampposts taken down because they’re an eyesore. I say don’t, so voters will be reminded about the shameless waste and the people responsible for it.

I do believe in your argument that 1 BIG factor that contributes to poverty is misuse of public funds and CORRUPTION! The GMA gov't FAILED to address this problem, Corrupt public officials Prospered!
On the other hand, while it is true that Philippines as a whole is not really overpopulated, Its Urban Centers are OVERPOPULATED! (as what i've argued before in my previous post)
With the gov'ts INABILITY to provide jobs & basic services and the Damning Corruption continous, the Quality of Life of people living in Urban centers would continously DEMINISHED, and at such situation, it would only take a few years to convert these Urban Centers to SLUM Centers....
I don't think the corruption issue will be addressed soon! Corruption has become a Way of Life in the Gov't already! Many ordinary citizen are also "used to it"!!! Thats the Reality! Kung maghuwat ta kanus-a mawagtang nang kurapsyon maabtan lang tag siyam-siyam!
Why NOT lay on the table all possible methods of family planning? The Church preferred method and the Gov'ts...
And have the public decide which one is "hiyang", makadiyos, effective, safe, or whatever personal preference they may have...
Let the church raise it's awareness among it's flock on the issue, same with the gov't... I think this is FAIR enough...

“Population growth is a multiplier of wealth; it is a driver of economic growth and creates opportunities for entrepreneurs,” states Steven Mosher, president of the Population Research Institute and long-time critic of United Nations policies that attack population growth in poor countries. Mosher stressed one need only to “cast a glance at dying Europe or moribund Japan, to be proven wrong.”

Well, this may NOT be true... it all depends on the situation...
Lets put it in OUR situation, Our Urban Areas are OVERPOPULATED, CORRUPT gov't, Deminishing Quality of Life, Education, Healthcare, Shelter, Food...
An inadequately educated, masakiton, way puy-anan, ug gigutom nga population WON"T be a wealth...
It's a DISASTER...

[mannyamador]

Yiu won't solve the problems of urban centers with birth control. That's because these problems are caused by MIGRATION!

The fertility rate of Manila is already BELOW REPLACEMENT LEVEL. The population grows NOT because of births but because of MIGRATION.

The solution, therefore, is to convince people to stop coming ot Manila. To do that you must develop the coutnryside, the rural areas, and the smaller urban centers. But of course this is very difficult to do because of MASSIVE CORRUPTION (plus our *****ic lawmakers want to waste millions on population control).

People are producers, not just consumers. When they work together, they produce more. When te population density is high enough, they produce more efficiently. When the population grows, the economy grows. And when a growing population makes possible an increasing number of interactions, you have innovation. But population control fanatics ignore all of this.

Overpopulation is a myth. HB 5043 will only serve to perpetuate that myth while ignoring the real causes of our problems: bad governance, corruption, mismanagement.

@wng:

because there is no country which achieved both very high human development growth rate and population growth rate at the same time.

You seem to have forgotten all about the United States. It's no microstate. it achieved some of its greatst economic growth whiler it had rapid population growth. Do your homework!

Like Sheldon Richmann said:

The catastrophists' cliche that a growing population is an obstacle to development is especially barren. Studies show a strong correlation between affluence and longevity; as the late Aaron Wildavsky liked to say, wealthier is healthier. The lengthening life expectancy in the developing world is evidence that population growth cannot be increasing poverty.

History makes the same point. The West grew rich precisely when its population was increasing at an unprecedented rate. Between 1776 and 1975, while the world's population increased sixfold, real gross world product rose about 80-fold.

In our own century we have seen a replay of the Industrial Revolution. After World War II the population of Hong Kong grew more quickly than that of 19th-century England or 20th-century India--at the same time that resource-poor island-colony was growing rich.

The increases in population and wealth have not been merely coincidental. They are causes and effects of each other. Today, with few exceptions, the most densely populated countries are the richest. Any mystery in that is dispelled by the realization that people are the source of ideas. The addition of people geometrically increases the potential for combining ideas into newer, better ideas. As the Nobel laureate and economist Simon Kuznets wrote, "More population means more creators and producers, both of goods along established production patterns and of new knowledge and inventions." A growing population also allows for a more elaborate division of labor, which raises incomes. Those who wish to stifle population growth would condemn hundreds of millions of people in the developing world to the abject deprivation that characterized the West before the Industrial Revolution.

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No to Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043) Petition
No to Reproductive Health Bill (HB5043) Petition

Kill Bill 5043
FILIPINO FAMILY | Under Siege

[Bill Whatcott]

This bill is the first step towards legalized abortion in the Philippines

Look at Russia if you want to see where destroying your own race by not having children will take you.
Free North America • View topic - "March for Russia" Will Protest Abortion, Homosexuality in F

Look at my country too. Our families are ruined in Canada.
Aging Population, Low Birth Rate Will Place Massive Economic Burden on Younger Canadians: Report

Better to listen to God than Western elites (who are funding Filipino population control lobbies).

"Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD,
The fruit of the womb is a reward.
Like arrows in the hand of a warrior,
So are the children of one’s youth."
Psalm 127:3,4

[wng]

This bill is the first step towards legalized abortion in the Philippines

Look at Russia if you want to see where destroying your own race by not having children will take you.
Free North America • View topic - "March for Russia" Will Protest Abortion, Homosexuality in F

I know my country and my countrymen. There is absolutely no connection towards legalized abortion. Who even told you about such a connection? I know what's happening in Russia, but the Philippines is so far off in culture, religion, government, etc. that there's no need for any further comparison.

Look at my country too. Our families are ruined in Canada.
Aging Population, Low Birth Rate Will Place Massive Economic Burden on Younger Canadians: Report

Yes, I know what's happening in Canada. I also know the same phenomenon is happening in Japan and Singapore. But look at the numbers and you will be assured that the Philippines is the complete opposite and there's absolutely no danger of us having the same problems in the near future.

Better to listen to God than Western elites (who are funding Filipino population control lobbies).

"Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD,
The fruit of the womb is a reward.
Like arrows in the hand of a warrior,
So are the children of one’s youth."
Psalm 127:3,4

With all due respect, I would rather listen to the Western elites who FUND Filipino population control rather than Western elites like Sheldon Richman who WILL NOT FUND any population control programs. Actually I DO NOT NEED to listen to any Western elites. I know the Philippines, and I know what the population problems here. Filipinos should know better compared to foreigners, some of who haven't set foot here. With respect to the verses you posted, it's just a matter of interpretation. I personally don't see it as having any particular relationship with the use of contraceptives. I'll leave it to the more religious forumers to comment if they want to.