Will Clones Have Souls?

[diehard96]

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i quite understand the difference, point was, if gene alteration is possible and a fact, then cloning is also a fact..

cloning HAD been done in the past. but i don't know if it is still being done at present. biologically i don't see any necessary benefit it may bring.

at topic: a basic question would have been whether "soul" really exists. if it does, what it is and how it comes to existence. there are many different ideas about this from different religions, but i seriously doubt if there had been any empirical evidence --or whether there will ever be.

[diehard96]

if we are going to be theological about it (making philosophy as a more stable state of reference) ST. Thomas Aquinas on the concept of man would likely be in disagreement with genetic technology right now more specifically on cloning human beings. St. Thomas believes that man is a substantial unity of body and soul. Man is both body and soul. but the soul is not the body nor the body the soul. the soul's existence is solely independent on the existence of others. thus, it exists in itself (this, by simplest word, describe the meaning of a substance). what st. Thomas is trying to say is that, man as substance (which is the soul) needs a another substance (which is a body) to give form to matter. the soul gives form to the body and the body which gives matter to the soul. this is philosophy of st. Thomas gives an ethical implication on the importance of man to his soul and the soul to her material form (the body). what do these things got to do with man and cloning? the answer is everything. you see, man's existence is both a material existence and a spiritual existence. man is both a material substance and a spiritual substance that make him a unique existing being. without these two substances, man is only a word. in contrary to this, cloning, as a scientific breakthrough( this I do not know..if its really taken as an achievement) forfeits the Thomistic idea of a substance that exists independently; and needs no other things to exist as such.
if man then can be cloned is such a way that his souls are also cloned and distributed evenly (if not shared commonly to other clones) would it not affect man's state as a single entity both matter and form. if so, then isn't it unfair for one to suffer and let the other clones live just because the former is no longer functioning and could easily be abandoned since the replicas are fresh already and may as well be practical of the seemingly new being from the same genetic structure? if, let's say, the original composite being is sick and tired of his life, can the cloned souls resort to a new reason to cling into just to continue living? what if, the personal experiences of the former, which are taken as the life of the self, may now be treasured for eternity as to give way for death to take its course, will it affect the clones new disposition in life? Is the former's experiences engraved on the latter? if not, then the soul of the former is of different stance to that of the latter. if man can be cloned a thousandfold, just to escape mortality and death or whatever insane reason would there be, can a soul be replicated as well to follow the same footsteps of the former. "no one can step at the same river twice." if change then is what the scientists have in minds, then change ( of various degrees) is what they'll be getting. if man be genetically controlled nowadays, the soul will never be controlled, for it belongs to the ULTIMATE SUBSTANCE whose power controls all substances in the world and beyond ours. and for all stupid substances, who by their earthly lives, play the folly role of the gods... i see no mature reason ( and never would i entertain one) for them to create an uncreated cloned beings without a soul. if St. Thomas would have risen back from the grave, he'll be the first one to protest on this seemingly odd concept of enhancing the structure of a HUMAN PERSON.

so much talk about dualism. while it supports the idea that soul exists, it doesn't answer the original question.

a person, regardless how many times he is cloned, is still mortal. cloning can't be a way of escaping death.

and please, cloning has nothing to do with "enhancing the structure of a HUMAN PERSON" in the same way that having a book photocopied would not enhance it in anyway.

[tokidoki]

i don't think souls are cloned when a human body is cloned. each clone is capable of independent thought and may even make different decisions from the original. I believe it is a different soul for every new life created. Artificial or otherwise.

[YellowSubmarine]

With all these technologies and science is getting more advanced, what do you think about cloning? First off, science is started cloning animals... the next thing we know, they are cloning humans... really functional humans that live, breath, eat, sleep, reproduce, work, feels pain and oh not to mention... the will to worship and the will not to worship.

p.s. by the way, it does not limit to humans only.

Thanks... God bless!

if the clone lives then it probably have a soul and spirit

[JX]

cloning HAD been done in the past. but i don't know if it is still being done at present. biologically i don't see any necessary benefit it may bring.

at topic: a basic question would have been whether "soul" really exists. if it does, what it is and how it comes to existence. there are many different ideas about this from different religions, but i seriously doubt if there had been any empirical evidence --or whether there will ever be.

1.)point is?
2.)TS's chooses the basic question, but its never too late, you can always open a thread for that..

[tripwire]

i don't think souls are cloned when a human body is cloned. each clone is capable of independent thought and may even make different decisions from the original. I believe it is a different soul for every new life created. Artificial or otherwise.

True.

IMO, soul is an individual thought process and/or a constant awareness of living full of energy. So, once a person is created (cloned) that person will have the same thought process and awareness.

[diehard96]

1.)point is?
2.)TS's chooses the basic question, but its never too late, you can always open a thread for that..

the point is: it is given that cloning is a fact, and that has nothing to do with genetic engineering. therefore, the previous statement:

"...if gene alteration is possible and a fact, then cloning is also a fact.."

is a non sequitor of coincidentally true ideas.

[JX]

the point is: it is given that cloning is a fact, and that has nothing to do with genetic engineering. therefore, the previous statement:

"...if gene alteration is possible and a fact, then cloning is also a fact.."

is a non sequitor of coincidentally true ideas.

really now.. big word..

Genetic engineering (or bioengineering) is a general term referring to any alteration of an organism’s genes for practical purposes. Cloning is one aspect of genetic engineering, the part that allows scientists to use a variety of methods to duplicate copies of already existing organisms or genetic material. But the term "genetic engineering" is much broader, encompassing a wide range of procedures designed to alter genetic material, not only copying genes, but in some cases, making completely new proteins. -library

just to add, two types of bioeng:
1.) genetics
2.) subset of mech eng

[harris]

Its like putting a sperm into an ovary! same process!!! wala lai orgasm!!!!hehehehehe

[tripwire]

Quick questions guys/gals:

1. If having a soul makes us human then cloning should have one. If not, what then?
2. If living and breathing is to be human, human cloning is to have every right to have one (soul). If not, what then?
3. If humans live both moral and immoral standards, human cloning shouldn't have one? If yes, why not?
4. If humans live by dignity and ethics, then cloning shouldn't have them? If not, why should we strip them with dignity and ethics as a living breathng being?
5. Imagine if you are a clone and to hear all these dignified people talking about you as if your very existence were a crime against humanity. What will you do?