Salvation

[NASYO]

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Jesus Saves..

God Saves..

[Mr.Ho_chia]

bro nahan gyud ta ko mutubag anang imo inquiry but i dont think i have enough knowledge... But i know that it's His business to give us such freedom of our will. You should ask someone about your concern and this is not the right place for you to ask, maglibog lang ka dri bro...

tanawa they're arguing about blood thing... for me, those are part of the old testament sacrifices.. the time Jesus Christ died and rose from dead, it was very different but they are still pushing things that they're not even sure. only their pride is really driving them. We are suppose to be hanged on that cross or whatever process we may call it as long as it is painful to us to the point of death. we should be the one suffering and not Jesus Christ, and now they're arguing as if they knew the very mind of God..

Sorry sir if you think Im boastful or proud, i was just taking the shedding of blood thing in context and I never suggested that we need to die and shed our blood these days, kay I understand fully that the sacrifice of Christ was the Ultimate sacrifice. I think I mentioned that also in my few other posts.

I have rectify the implication/s of my post/s, I hope it is clearer now. Thanks to all

[FISHPEN]

I believe that the salvation question been answered. The only question left is If you believe or not? If you believe that there is God or no God?

God Bless Us all

[bahiista]

NO prob Mr.Ho_chia...besides is not you that im pointing of..i never really read all the post here but i know that there is argument going on...peace bro..it's kinda depressing.

i just dont know why we should keep on arguing about Christ. I mean we can reason out but not to the point of argument.. The Bible clearly said that some people will think of these things in the Bible as foolishness..i hope you get my point...Christianity is humility as well.

[bahiista]

Perhaps you know the mind of god sir.

no bro...i cant even understand all that the Bible is saying to me...but what i have is an intimate relationship with my Saviour. And with that i knew who my Saviour is.
Paganism was already practiced before Moses's time.If you Remember "Promise Land", it is because of the wickedness of the people that are staying on that land that the Lord, God of Israelites want them to wiped out of the earth and gave the lands to the Israelites as their home.

[Reason2believe]

In rejecting something in the absence of absolute evidence is made by votes depending on the degree of that evidence based on who view them, that is not an irresponsible act at all but of truth and practice. Rejecting one thing and embracing another one does not define the truth but rather it define the leaning one has. Questioning one expertise based on a reasonable argument is not irresponsible, a lot of these so called learned people who studied everything all there lives change their views over night, we are humans and we do change our mind. THis is why democracy is great, we don't swallow what people shove down our truth, we think and clarify, we ask them to resolve issues that are important and seek absolute evidence before we make life changing decisions. I am not gonna follow someone blindly just because he has a phd, md, eed attached to his name, he is as fallible as I am. shaddy area like the earth is millions of years old? i have no access to it and therefore we nod every time they stroke their hand?

sorry I have access to information some of which i have posted already and to add to that, did you know that the earth spinning is slowed down each year? for the earth to be millions of years old the spinning should be really crazy fast that before you sleep it's morning already, I doubt if we can even stand up at all.
where they able to answer such a valid argument? of course not, because, we just have to swallow what they shove down our truth, is that what we want? Definitely not!

really more reliable because of experimentation? kindly post those experiments and experiences sir, not that we don't trust you, I just want to exam the integrity of that experiment/s you are talking about. Show also the mathematical computations regarding earth spinning and the furthering away of the moon, let's see that. both creationist and evolutionist are not empirical science, that's why we have to make a choice and believe as we see evidences, and to a certain extent faith is there.

YOup, mainstream science and scientist reject creation time line I agree, but look at these scientist behind them, most of them are atheist, they don;t believe in GOD, so to accept the creation time line is a mockery to their character, therefore it would be better to mock GOD than themselves. Rejecting interpretations is not new, it is neither exclusive to the christian belief, it is as well evident in business, marketing, politics and even science. funny how you zeroed it in to christianity sir.


Surely your not, otherwise you would see that the GOD of the Bible is not a blood thirsty god but a Holy and JUST one who is willing to pay for yours, mine and our sins.

Whether Abraham is Jewish or not (I know he is, by virtue of their linage traceable in scriptures) is irrelevant, what I am trying to say is that From the time of creation GOD is there already, and is worshiped by different people from adam downwards, that each time in the recorded history of the Bible, GOD raise a person for HIS name sake. True there are idols and pagan worshipers your golden calfs came in much later, in the time of Moses the egyptians but remember the shedding of the innocent blood came much earlier in the garden of eden. remember?

we might be talking of the same thing yet misunderstood each other big time. I am not suggesting that we need to shed our blood anymore, that we people have to shed our blood in the payment for our sins. THat is no longer necessary sir. GOD did that already. that is why there is no need to hurt ourselves and shed our own blood to achieve salvation, GOD did it already.

I still maintain that My GOD whom I serve is not appeased by the shedding of Blood, HE is a Holy and Just GOD, HE SHED HIS OWN BLOOD not to appease HIMSELF but for the payment of our sin, more like buying ourselves ones again from the enemy.

Knowing GOD and desiring HIS nature and character is learning thru scriptures, otherwise each one will have their own concept and own image of GOD through our own humanistic view which is highly dangerous and misleading. Read your Bible and see how awesome GOD is.

I answered you already, JESUS CHRIST has blood, He shed them in the cross of calvery, HE is my GOD. Have a nice day sir.

Sir we are talking Science here, They dont just vote whimsically, behind them is knowledge gained thru experience and extensive studies. Questioning these credentials is like running towards a solid wall. Dont hang religion and any affiliations upon their neck sir, becuase you are already judging their motives w/c you have no access. They made a decision w/c one to accept and reject base on objectivity,knowledge,and experience and for all you know these people believe in god but choose to set aside their affiliation for the sake of objective conclusion.

of course anyone can question their expertise but dont you think that the people in this community had already done it? In Fact the verdict is already made. But of course we have persistent losers such people do exist in this world,sure they can continually push their theory but they need more evidence if they want to smash the present accpeted theory,thats how science work sir. Now since what Creationist are proprosing isnt as strong and convincing as they think,rational people must resort to objective thinking and accept the present model theory.

Sure people's mind do change but these people are scientist sir,maybe they will change their mind when a convincing evidence is already laid out in the open.

i really dont want to drag this discussion to creation vs evolution kind of thing because thats not our topic.


of course he is a blood-thirsty god,your scripture suggest so, He can be holy,just and at the same time a blood-thirsty god according to your bible,he even commanded Moses to ripped off the wombs of thepregnat woman and dash the innocent child to a wall.


I dont know why you keep on denying it when the obvious fact is written in your bible.


oh hehe,thats not the answer that i want sir, If you can prove that Abraham was there during the formation of judaism in your bible then i will accpet that i am wrong BUT since you cant provide one then my im correct in saying that Abraham was not jewish. Can the Arabs also say the same thing? that Abraham is an Arab by virtue of lineage traceable in scriptures?

Correct,that shedding of blood started even before Moses who formed Judaism and thats my point. To say that the shedding of blood is originally from Judaism is incorrect. To claim that Adam n Eve and according to you the shedding of blood is not a pagan ritual is really doubtful. You see any religion would always trace their roots to the beginning of time(creation) and claim that the ancient rituals are part of its present rites. My point is even pagan can claim that Adam n Eve are their first parents and the rituals they observe came from them. In other words sir,its anybodys ball game,why? beacuase organize religon came in late and history can prove that Pagans have more right to say that any rituals(including God shedding blood for adam n eve) and concepts of belief that existed before any highly organize religon such as Judaism is part of pagansim.


no sir, i am not suggesting that any more blood must be shed.


Fine with me, if you want to maintain that position. But i just want to say this to you, you are in flagrant violation of one of the major doctrine of christianity. I might then be talking to the wrong person,why? because i am questioning a certain principle of that doctrine w/c you have no idea at all.


I have read the bible sir and rejected its barbaric conception of who god is. I believe that god is holy,just,love and kind and i also believe that he can pardon sin w/o any blood being shed because his power is not dependent on any blood or any material sources.


humanistic point of view? Do you really understand those words? Making God into a man and giving him human attributes such as blood, and leveling his mindset that of a man by proposing that He gets so angry and demands blood is to me perceiving god through a humanistic point of view.


So god has a blood,what a humansitic and pagansitic point of view. Greeks believe that god can become man. Jews have a very different idea of what the title son of man is. The idea that a god can become man came from greeks w/c paul and other early gentile christian adapted because of the influence of the greek philosopers who were the trend setter of that time.

[Reason2believe]

no bro...i cant even understand all that the Bible is saying to me...but what i have is an intimate relationship with my Saviour. And with that i knew who my Saviour is.
Paganism was already practiced before Moses's time.If you Remember "Promise Land", it is because of the wickedness of the people that are staying on that land that the Lord, God of Israelites want them to wiped out of the earth and gave the lands to the Israelites as their home.

so you dont understand what the bible is saying to you? wow,so where are you basing your faith? In your emotions? not very rational sir.

any sane person must first understand kung unsa ng iyang gi sudlan before jumping into it.

[Reason2believe]

You know what Reason2believe. 1. You Keep in using Timeline as one of the basis of your arguement but have you notice? even the time line that you are using is based on the Death of our Savior Jesus Christ? Like A.D and B.C. thing? Like one 1million BC and 600 AD? even scientist is using that timeline.

2. You said that paganism started in the time of moses.. How about the shedding of blood in Cain and abel story? that happend before moses, what do you call that nothing? it means to say that religion is already present but they don't have name. But they know God for sure and I'm sure with that.

1. Yes it is based on AD and BC, BCE n CE too. so whats the problem? i have no problem with this because thats the timeline that i was referring to. It is scientific and formulated outside any religious book. The bible never mentions any dates like 30 Bc or 220AD,so what do we do we go outside the bible and formulate a timeline. Para dili ta maglibog sa mga dates. Creation timeline sir is base on the bible. Ambot gi unsa kaha ni nila ug formulate. This is the timelione that i was talking about w/c Mr.ho_chia questioned its validity.

2. Actually i dont understand your point here sir,sorry.

[bahiista]

so you dont understand what the bible is saying to you? wow,so where are you basing your faith? In your emotions? not very rational sir.

any sane person must first understand kung unsa ng iyang gi sudlan before jumping into it.

come on boy, you're acting like a child, READ MY POST CLEARLY and UNDERSTAND THE WORDS IN IT.
just making it very clear to you. then we can continue with what's on your mind. as long as you will open your narrow mind, you'll going to learn new things, else you'll stay who you are.

[Super Bisdak]

tanawa they're arguing about blood thing... for me, those are part of the old testament sacrifices.. the time Jesus Christ died and rose from dead, it was very different but they are still pushing things that they're not even sure. only their pride is really driving them. We are suppose to be hanged on that cross or whatever process we may call it as long as it is painful to us to the point of death. we should be the one suffering and not Jesus Christ, and now they're arguing as if they knew the very mind of God..

pasensya na bro ha kung "bloody arguement" na inyong tan-aw ani nga thread. pero maayo baya ang discussion, hinaya lang pod ug basa basin gasingka pod unya mo'g basa diha.

dili pod baya "pride" ang gapursege nako nga mutuki sa pulong sa Ginoo. Ang ako lang nga mapahayag nako ang pulong sa Ginoo nga maoy iyang gitisuk sa akong kasing-kasing. Dunay panahon sa matag butang. Tingali bulawanon ang pagpakahilum sa usa kapanahon, apan akong nabati ka kining higayuna bulawonon ang pagpadayag sa pulong sa Ginoo.

1Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Ako lang gibati ang pulong sa ibabaw bro.

and now they're arguing as if they knew the very mind of God..

Walay tao nga makatugkad o makasusi sa huna-huna sa Ginoo. Kay maiingon man nga hataas ang langit kay sa yuta, mao man pod ang Ginoo kung itandi sa tawo. Ug ako wala magbutang sa akong kaugalingon nga daw labaw ni bisan kinsa dinhi, apan akong gi-isip ang akong kaugalingon nga pinaka-ubos ug dili batid sa pakiglantugi kay akong nasabtan nga dili kini mao ang kabobot-on sa Ginoo sa Iyang pagluwas kanako. Mao lamang nga kinahanglan mapahayag ko ang pulong nga Iyang gipadayag kanako.

Sa makausa pa, pasensya kung dunay inyong makaplagan nga makapandol sa inyong pagtoo sa Ginoo tungod niini nga discussion. Ato lang i-ampo nga ang Ginoo mamuhat sa atong kinabuhi, kinsay nasayod nga mahimo ni nga makabukas sa salabutan nga nangitngitan kay ang Ginoo mamuhat bisan pa sa butang nga wala nato hisayran.

Ang Ginoo magpanalangin kanatong tanan!