Everything about : RH Bill ( Reproductive Health Bill)

[pandisal]

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^^^ Well as I said, common sense... just compare a decade of changes, how the overcrowded our major cities... One example also, our farm used to be farmed by one family, now it is divided by multiple of families but still has the same output. Thats the difference between you and me, you want hard evidence that are published somewhere (even a decade document) just to prove your point and cut&paste over the forum while in front of you, the overpopulation effects already felt and real. It seems your intelligence blinded you in reality. (Sa bisaya pa, Pagmata Nong!)

[wng]

We have the world's most densely populated city district and the world's most densely populated city. So what if we are not the world's most densely populated country or that we do not have the world's most densely populated metro area? We're still not overpopulated because we're not #1 in all aspects? And how does corruption cause overpopulation? There's no proof of that! Maybe some government or church official took away the money for the poor couple to buy their condoms? Or we'll just wait 10 more years for a Catholic writer sanctioned by the Vatican to prove that Tondo is not overpopulated.

Overpopulation is not a myth.

On the other hand, Abraham in the Bible is a myth. I don't know why people are choosing what they choose or not to believe in the Old Testament. And using the Bible to justify that people have to multiply as numerous as the stars. Even if it did happen (in which we do not have any proof), you want to apply a 4,000 year old thought to today's problems? I should then follow Abraham and Jacob? So for guys out there, if your wife is infertile, what should you do so you can do your duty to multiply? Do not choose IVF, the church does not approve. Go do it with your maids as Abraham and Isaac did. There, you have it, you followed the biblical teachings!

Johnny and pandisal, di na lang siguro ni nato tubagon ni siya oi, kay wa gyud use oi? We'll leave it to the other forumers to judge what they read and their own observations. Whether they believe in overpopulation, or whether they believe they should follow a polygamous guy who may not have existed four millenia ago.

Enough said.
I'll just talk to my fishes who are in need of a new tank because they can understand what overpopulation means.

[shaven.poodle]

@mannyamador

Sir, i noticed that maayo kaayo ka sa pag cut and paste ug figures, but murag di ka kakita sa things that are happening around you...Look around you. Look at real life in the face.

This is from the NSO page:
Final results of the latest Census of Population (POPCEN 2007) conducted by the National Statistics Office (NSO) placed the Philippine population at 88,574,614 persons as of August 1, 2007. Said results down to barangay level were made official with the signing by President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo of Proclamation No. 1489 on April 16, 2008.

The total population of the Philippines in 2000 (based on the 2000 Census of Population and Housing) was 76.50 million while it was recorded at 68.62 million in 1995 (based on the 1995 Mid-Decade Census).
Census Year Census Reference Date Philippine Population (in millions)
2007 August 1, 2007 88.57
2000 May 1, 2000 76.50
1995 September 1, 1995 68.62

Kulangan to imong statistics kay metro manila ra man kaha to.. Population growth is very obvious, ma-feel namo kay daghan daghan na pud mi ug gipaanak. And if you look around you, wa ba ka kanotice sa kalisud karun? Look at the people lining up to buy rice every morning sa bigasan ng bayan.. The increasing number of children on the streets.. And they only allot a few kilos each week per family. Imagine!
CORRECT INFORMATION on responsible ***, parenthood and family planning as well as birth spacing is very important and should be taught to all, especially the young people... As i've said, the bill does not encourage abortion..

[shaven.poodle]

That's caused by corruption, greed, and indiscriminate debt servicing. NOT overpopulation. Do you read the evidence in the previous posts?

By the way, you're only talking of the City of Manila with your population density figures. If you talk about Metro Manila the population density is only 12,550 people/km² in a land area of 1,334km² (dropping from 1st to 85th place). It is less densly populated than Cebu City (which places 80th), The City of Manila is a thriving business district, and a lot of Manila "residents" actually live in other cities like San Juan or Quezon City. Many other Mnaila "residents" are transients, who work there during the week but actually have homes elsewhere. Considering the mobility of Manila residents, the density for Metro Manila is a much better measure.

And yet, birth control will solve NOTHING since the Total Fertility Rate of Manila is already BELOW REPLACEMENT LEVEL!

Metro Manila's population growth rate has been dropping for years! It practically crashed during 1995-2000. Just look at the NSO's figures:



The City of Manila actually experienced a NEGATIVE average annual growth rate (-0.97%) in 1995-2000. Other cities in Metro Manila experienced a similar problem. The City of Makati had a population growth rate of -1.8%, City of Mandaluyong: -0.63; City Of Muntinlupa: -1.12%; Malabon: -0.54; Pasay City: -2.97; San Juan: -1.15%. The average for all of Metro Manila is only 1.06%. That's not overpopulation at all!

It is pretty OBVIOUS that birth control will NOT solve the "overcrowding". Elimination of corruption so that the rest of the coutnry can be developed, on the other hand WILL.

@Johnny22aa


That's right, Johnny. But, as usual, you are UNABLE to show that it is overpopulatuion that is causing this. I can claim that other factors -- such as corruption -- cause this. Unless you are able to eliminate these other factors as plausible causes, then the probability that overpopulation is the cause is logically diminished.

Do you have any concept of logic at all? Simply pointing out alleged "effects" doesn't prove that a certain factor caused the effect. You must show the causal relationship. Or, at least, present evidence from others that prove the causal relationship. If you cannot (and so far you HAVEN'T), then your assertions are all hot air and nothing more.

@diatabz


Please see my reply to Johnny22aa above. Diatabz, you make the same mistake as Johnny. Yes, you're changing terms, but the failure in logic is still the same. You have the same false premiss. Population pressures do NOT necessarily lead to poverty. In fact, they rarely do. Other factors are more likely the cause. Your "fact" is actually a MYTH, unsupported by evidence.




Well then we're not talking about the same proposed Bill either. The Bill does not limit itself to barrier contraceptives only. It promotes abortifacients. It is also coercive and forces conmscientious objectors to lead people to those who will dispense contraceptives, making them cooperators in the evil. Have you actually read the Bill?

Condoms only aggravate the situation because, like all artificial contraceptives, they encourage promiscuous behavior and a fasle sense of security.

In Africa, condoms have NOT stopped or even slowed down AIDS. Condomprograms are a total FAILURE. Only Uganda has had much success, and that country promotes ABSTINENCE. That is the only solution that seems to work.

Compare condom-pushing Thailand to Catholic Philippines. Thailand has a smaller population but close to 100 times as many more AIDS cases! The Philippines has around 10,000 cases; Thailand has over a million! That's an example of the catastrophic results of condom promotion.

If Thailand had promoted abstinence, it probably would have fared much better. But the condom pushers wouldn't hear of it!

Contraceptive promiotion encourages its use and promiscuous behavior. Then they fail im massive numbers. Then people start calling for abortion as a solution. That's a vicious cycle that has been replayed many times in other countries. No one in his right mind would want that vicious cycle here.

@mannyamador:
sir, *** is a big part of life. Wa unta ta managhan if gasige ug abstain ang mga tao. As if tanan pari ga-abstain pud, hehe... MISINFORMATION and PROPAGANDA and maka mislead sa public. It's better to go with the flow, adjust sa changing times. And arm the people with RIGHT INFORMATION to cope with the realities of life.

[shaven.poodle]

I don't speak Cebuano so I can't reply to everything you wrote. But I will reply to the two parts above that I understand.

The Bill promotes abortifacients

First, while it is true that the Bill claims it will not change anything about the law on abortion, that is actually just a clever legal ploy. The bill doesn't legalize abortion, but it promotes abortifacient contraceptives. Atty. Jose C. Sison pointed this out in his July 18 article in the Philippine Star ("A Bishop's Courageous Stand"):

It is true that Section 3 of the substitute bill approved by the Committee on Health states that "nothing in this act changes the law on abortion, as abortion remains a crime and is punishable". This is precisely where the deception lies. Such declaration merely means that abortion is not being legalized. There is a great distinction between promoting abortion and legalizing it. In fact the bill is actually promoting abortion, something that remains illegal, because in another section, it gives women the right to choose between the artificial and natural family planning means of birth control and makes available a wide range of contraceptives

It has been repeatedly pointed out by medical tests and actual experience, especially in the USA where the powerful International Groups pushing for this bill are based (Planned Parenthood, UNFPA), that some of these contraceptives cause abortion. The IUD prevents a fertilized egg - "a new little human being" - from implanting in the uterine wall. The pill does not always stop ovulation but sometimes prevents implantation of the growing embryo. The new RU 486 pill works altogether by aborting a new fetus, a new baby.

I also pointed out something similar about a specific provision of the Bill in my blog post on May 26, entitled "Railroading a Deadly Agenda":

Section 9 (Hospital-Based Family Planning) specifically subsidizes the use of IUDs (insertion of the device is performed in a hospital). The IUD, however, is NOT just a contraceptive. It is also an ABORTIFACIENT. The IUD does not only prevent ovulation. Rather, it also works by affecting the uterine wall so that it prevents a fertilized ovum — which is already a human being — from implanting. The Philippine Constitution specifically protects human life from the moment of conception. The IUD clearly violates that principle.

Sources and evidence

As for my sources, I have already pointed out that the abortifacients have not changed their function. The NFP studies are not out of date because the methods tested are still used, Economic arguments span decades so there's no question about them going out fo date. And i have used the latest Philippine population statistics.

In contrast, I have not seen any contrary evidence submitted at all! If you think my sources are outdated, then why haven't you been able to show me any whatsoever? I have shown evidence, no one else has shown any.

Others

As for barrier contraceptives, take note that the Bill does not limit itself to the promotion of barrier contraceptives. it promotes ALL kinds of contraceptives, which includes abortifacients. it is deceptive to focus only on those when the Bill itself does not.

Sir, you are missing the point here. Bitaw, kalisud mag-argue with someone who doesn't see reason. Nakamention man gud ka about provera being a barrier contraceptive, when in fact it isn't. Di pud maayo sige ug quote from various sources if you don't know the different mechanisms of ALL TYPES OF CONTRACEPTIVES. And the bill indeed does not focus on barriers alone, but an all types. Those who are not comfortable with barriers may use the rhythm method, if they prefer it. Unsaon na lang sa girls nga irregular ug periods?! And the husbands who do not care kung safe ba or dili.
Natural method or not, the intention is still the same, di ba? Maayo sa "celibate" priests who do not have kids to feed or to send to school. How about those who are married?
If interested ka mutan-aw, kuyugan pa taka sa paanakan, so that you'll know what it's like for these families..

[diatabz]

@diatabz


Please see my reply to Johnny22aa above. Diatabz, you make the same mistake as Johnny. Yes, you're changing terms, but the failure in logic is still the same. You have the same false premiss. Population pressures do NOT necessarily lead to poverty. In fact, they rarely do. Other factors are more likely the cause. Your "fact" is actually a MYTH, unsupported by evidence.

But its not helping the situation either. I never said that population pressures are the sole cause of poverty. Its one of many factors along with corruption, greed and many more. Please, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that our economy is no longer fit for our growing population. You don't need statistics, graphs and charts to understand.

Well then we're not talking about the same proposed Bill either. The Bill does not limit itself to barrier contraceptives only. It promotes abortifacients. It is also coercive and forces conmscientious objectors to lead people to those who will dispense contraceptives, making them cooperators in the evil. Have you actually read the Bill?

Thats why I said that if we had congress streamline this bill, maybe it'd work. If it means limiting it to condoms, then so be it. As I've said, it's a much important step.

[diatabz]

Sorry, double post.

[diatabz]

Condoms only aggravate the situation because, like all artificial contraceptives, they encourage promiscuous behavior and a fasle sense of security.

You talk as if you've never had *** before. Do you think it easy to tell almost 100 million people to abstain from having intercourse? *** is as much a part of our daily lives now more than ever. Promiscuity is already prevalent, even before we dreamed of this bill. Even if married couples stayed faithful, you can't stop the youth from having and enjoying ***. It is my right to know that aside from abstinence, there are other ways of preventing STDs.

In Africa, condoms have NOT stopped or even slowed down AIDS. Condomprograms are a total FAILURE. Only Uganda has had much success, and that country promotes ABSTINENCE. That is the only solution that seems to work.

Convenient of you to leave out the fact that Uganda had this success not only thanks to abstinence but condom usage as well. Did you know that Uganda used to promote ABCs? Abstinence, Being Faithful and Condom Usage? Only 4 years ago did the Ugandan President start to condemn the use of condoms. Uganda's policy is alienating it's youth by denying them information to condom usage. What's happening now is that AIDS is again now on the rise. Even with all the funding Uganda is getting for abstinence-only programs.

It's supposed to be a complete package Manny. You have to promote both contraception and abstinence as well as comprehensive sexual education for the program to work. That's what happened in the 90's and that's why their solution clicked.

Oh, and in Africa, unsanitary medical practices, such as the repeated use of dirty needles, have helped spread AIDS. Not just ***, but needle sharing as well. Up to this day it is still a problem that plagues the continent. So don't put all the blame on their programs.

Compare condom-pushing Thailand to Catholic Philippines. Thailand has a smaller population but close to 100 times as many more AIDS cases! The Philippines has around 10,000 cases; Thailand has over a million! That's an example of the catastrophic results of condom promotion.

If Thailand had promoted abstinence, it probably would have fared much better. But the condom pushers wouldn't hear of it!

Did you also know that according to World Bank reports, if Thailand had not pursued such an effective AIDS prevention campaign since the 1990s, 7.7 million more people would have been infected? Ever heard of Mechai Viravaidya? His AIDS prevention campaign was so effective that it earned him the praise of not only the UN, but other nations as well. Sadly during the late 90's, Thailand grew complacent and public education on AIDS disappeared. But Mechai's back though, and he's doing some marvelous work right now. Between January and November 2004, nearly 6,600 people died from AIDS. During the same period of 2005, the number of deaths dropped below 1,500. Good stuff yeah? And all he does is promote condoms and more condoms. Of course, his charisma doesn't hurt either.

Stopping people from having *** won't work. Just ask President Bush.

[cebu-future]

That's caused by corruption, greed, and indiscriminate debt servicing. NOT overpopulation. Do you read the evidence in the previous posts?

By the way, you're only talking of the City of Manila with your population density figures. If you talk about Metro Manila the population density is only 12,550 people/km² in a land area of 1,334km² (dropping from 1st to 85th place). It is less densly populated than Cebu City (which places 80th), The City of Manila is a thriving business district, and a lot of Manila "residents" actually live in other cities like San Juan or Quezon City. Many other Mnaila "residents" are transients, who work there during the week but actually have homes elsewhere. Considering the mobility of Manila residents, the density for Metro Manila is a much better measure.

And yet, birth control will solve NOTHING since the Total Fertility Rate of Manila is already BELOW REPLACEMENT LEVEL!

Metro Manila's population growth rate has been dropping for years! It practically crashed during 1995-2000. Just look at the NSO's figures:



The City of Manila actually experienced a NEGATIVE average annual growth rate (-0.97%) in 1995-2000. Other cities in Metro Manila experienced a similar problem. The City of Makati had a population growth rate of -1.8%, City of Mandaluyong: -0.63; City Of Muntinlupa: -1.12%; Malabon: -0.54; Pasay City: -2.97; San Juan: -1.15%. The average for all of Metro Manila is only 1.06%. That's not overpopulation at all!

It is pretty OBVIOUS that birth control will NOT solve the "overcrowding". Elimination of corruption so that the rest of the coutnry can be developed, on the other hand WILL.

@Johnny22aa


That's right, Johnny. But, as usual, you are UNABLE to show that it is overpopulatuion that is causing this. I can claim that other factors -- such as corruption -- cause this. Unless you are able to eliminate these other factors as plausible causes, then the probability that overpopulation is the cause is logically diminished.

Do you have any concept of logic at all? Simply pointing out alleged "effects" doesn't prove that a certain factor caused the effect. You must show the causal relationship. Or, at least, present evidence from others that prove the causal relationship. If you cannot (and so far you HAVEN'T), then your assertions are all hot air and nothing more.

@diatabz


Please see my reply to Johnny22aa above. Diatabz, you make the same mistake as Johnny. Yes, you're changing terms, but the failure in logic is still the same. You have the same false premiss. Population pressures do NOT necessarily lead to poverty. In fact, they rarely do. Other factors are more likely the cause. Your "fact" is actually a MYTH, unsupported by evidence.




Well then we're not talking about the same proposed Bill either. The Bill does not limit itself to barrier contraceptives only. It promotes abortifacients. It is also coercive and forces conmscientious objectors to lead people to those who will dispense contraceptives, making them cooperators in the evil. Have you actually read the Bill?

Condoms only aggravate the situation because, like all artificial contraceptives, they encourage promiscuous behavior and a fasle sense of security.

In Africa, condoms have NOT stopped or even slowed down AIDS. Condomprograms are a total FAILURE. Only Uganda has had much success, and that country promotes ABSTINENCE. That is the only solution that seems to work.

Compare condom-pushing Thailand to Catholic Philippines. Thailand has a smaller population but close to 100 times as many more AIDS cases! The Philippines has around 10,000 cases; Thailand has over a million! That's an example of the catastrophic results of condom promotion.

If Thailand had promoted abstinence, it probably would have fared much better. But the condom pushers wouldn't hear of it!

Contraceptive promiotion encourages its use and promiscuous behavior. Then they fail im massive numbers. Then people start calling for abortion as a solution. That's a vicious cycle that has been replayed many times in other countries. No one in his right mind would want that vicious cycle here.

I guess you have to update your data about AIDS cases in Thailand. I think you haven't been out the country yet.

Thailand, though, is also a reminder that success can be relative. Its well funded, politically supported and comprehensive prevention programmes have saved millions of lives, reducing the number of new HIV infections from 143,000 in 1991 to 19,000 in 2003. 2 Nonetheless, more than one-in-100 adults in this country of 65 million people is infected with HIV, and AIDS has become a leading cause of death. 3

HIV and AIDS in Thailand

[diatabz]

I guess you have to update your data about AIDS cases in Thailand. I think you haven't been out the country yet.

Thailand, though, is also a reminder that success can be relative. Its well funded, politically supported and comprehensive prevention programmes have saved millions of lives, reducing the number of new HIV infections from 143,000 in 1991 to 19,000 in 2003. 2 Nonetheless, more than one-in-100 adults in this country of 65 million people is infected with HIV, and AIDS has become a leading cause of death.

What made it really work was that everyone was involved, every ministry, businesses, even religion was involved, everyone.