MERGED: CPP-NPA-NDF Discussions (Issues, Updates, etc.)

[emow]

Communism has not contributed much to the world. I never heard of a communist who has donated or providing charitable causes. That's maybe because Capitalism has overshadowed these people? Maybe. But the truth of the matter is, capitalism has given oppotunities for people like henry ford, henry sy, john gokongwei, andrew carnegie, and many other successful people who started life with nothing. Many of these capitalists have contributed to the progress of the world. Communist only preach how the world should be run, how wonderful it would be to be a comunist, and all other stuffs denouncing capitalism. They just keep on talking doing nothing. They even ask for taxes from the people. Did i say ask? i meant force to pay revolutionary tax! Though there may be many awful things capitalism has brought into this world, but most likely those awful things came from awful people. We can not ignore that capitalism has produced many capitalist who contributed to try to better this world. Communists, quit your yappin! all you do is trying to sell an outdated product which nobody,except lazy uncreative self-absorbed conceited people, will buy. The very things you enjoy right now are brought about by capitalists! if you are not enjoying then why not leave the country and go to communist nations! Such ingrates should be punished severely by capitalists! just like communists. punishing people for following capitalism. But unlike communists, capitalists can be so forgiving!

[rodsky]

Some "loving and caring" fathers have raped their daughters.

It doesn't follow that if a system of government/economics can be "forgiving", that it is automatically a fair and just system of running things.

-RODION

[emow]

the world is unfair. Who said to you that everything should be fair? Why such a feeling of having the right of fairness? These governments try tu put thing in order. The key word there is TRY. It's not perfect. but it allows people who are motivated to pursue their ambition. They choose who they can be. Fairness? Nonsense! Are you that weak of a person to beg for fairness?? thats why you want communism! If life is unfair then one must strive and work smartly to put him on the advantage. I'm happy what capitalism has given to mankind. we have all the opportunity in the world! all we need is action with clear direction! Don't trouble yourself in trying to better the world by your ideaologies. if you can't put your stuff in order, quit preaching ideaologies which sounds cool or try be different from the rest! Focus on yourself first and if you have proven our communistic ways is successful, then maybe people will be willing to hear what you have to say. Stop denouncing capitalism!

"Some "loving and caring" fathers have raped their daughters." - are you blaming this to capitalists? why? communists fight "for (loving and caring)" the people while raping them for revolutionary taxes which the people never consented to in the first places! i call that, stealing in disguise!

[rodsky]

the world is unfair. Who said to you that everything should be fair? Why such a feeling of having the right of fairness? These governments try tu put thing in order. The key word there is TRY. It's not perfect. but it allows people who are motivated to pursue their ambition. They choose who they can be. Fairness? Nonsense! Are you that weak of a person to beg for fairness?? thats why you want communism! If life is unfair then one must strive and work smartly to put him on the advantage. I'm happy what capitalism has given to mankind. we have all the opportunity in the world! all we need is action with clear direction! Don't trouble yourself in trying to better the world by your ideaologies. if you can't put your stuff in order, quit preaching ideaologies which sounds cool or try be different from the rest! Focus on yourself first and if you have proven our communistic ways is successful, then maybe people will be willing to hear what you have to say. Stop denouncing capitalism!

Did you ever hear me call those people in the mountains you refer to as "communists" communists? They're people trying to fight for something they believe in, but I personally wouldn't want to call them communists--if they like to call themselves that, I have no argument against them. After all, if someone else calls them thieves, their act of thievery is only defined by the viewer, and which side of the fence the viewer of the act is in.

Where oh where have I been denouncing Capitalism? I simply said Please read up on "means of production" before you take sides...it's a very good way to understand why both sides believe in the system of living they choose to believe in (take note I said believe, rather than do or act upon).

Like I have said many times in this thread, true communism cannot be attained in an immature society. It's nice to dream about it, and before you say "Right! Communism is only for dreaming! It's a fantasy that cannot happen!" remember, the ability to fly across the sky in a heavier than air machine (i.e. airplane) was also a dream before the 1900's. So what made the airplane work after 1903? Simple...time, technology, and the evolution of human knowhow and understanding of how the world works (i.e. aerodynamics paved the way for a solution on aerofoils). Ergo, the more we begin to comprehend and understand the dynamics of how we as humans relate with each other, the more we can arrive at possible alternate means of existence than the "comfy" ones we adopt today sa kaning atong gitawag nga kahimtang. There is a branch of knowledge that focuses solely on these things--it's called the social sciences.

So you don't equate "fair" and "just" then? They mean two different things to you?

"Some "loving and caring" fathers have raped their daughters." - are you blaming this to capitalists? why? communists fight "for (loving and caring)" the people while raping them for revolutionary taxes which the people never consented to in the first places! i call that, stealing in disguise!

Have you any concept of the term "analogy"?

-RODION

[giddyboy]

Did you ever hear me call those people in the mountains you refer
Like I have said many times in this thread, true communism cannot be attained in an immature society. It's nice to dream about it, and before you say "Right! Communism is only for dreaming! It's a fantasy that cannot happen!" remember, the ability to fly across the sky in a heavier than air machine (i.e. airplane) was also a dream before the 1900's. So what made the airplane work after 1903? Simple...time, technology, and the evolution of human knowhow and understanding of how the world works (i.e. aerodynamics paved the way for a solution on aerofoils). Ergo, the more we begin to comprehend and understand the dynamics of how we as humans relate with each other, the more we can arrive at possible alternate means of existence than the "comfy" ones we adopt today sa kaning atong gitawag nga kahimtang. There is a branch of knowledge that focuses solely on these things--it's called the social sciences.
-RODION

sorry, but i will just have to say, "Yeah Right!"...

if we take ur analogy that in technology, there was once a dream to fly across the sky that resulted into the invention of the airplane, and we parallel this to the dream on true communism as a social science? is that the only best dream for a perfect or least imperfect gov't system?

all i can say is that this analogy sucks...

why? in technology, we dream of things that could still happen. that would still hold true for social science. and not the things that happened already but still wanna dream on it again.

my point is that, communism has already happened, been tried but failed. it is HISTORY already and not to be dreamt on again. it is like dreaming of reviving a kalesa to solve our global warming & oil crises.

mind u, these communist countries like China & N. Korea haven't been dreaming of a true communism coz they already did it (maybe almost). but thinking forward, they resorted to post-modernism to adjust to our changing times.

System of governance could evolve. We have already the UK, UAE, and even EU for example. Countries are even going global representation like in the U.N. and ASEAN.

How capitalism is applied could evolve. we even already invented Entrepreneurship and Networking Sales for cryin out loud.

heck, maybe in the future evolvings, communism and capitalism would be already passe 'coz we would somehow always find new ways of doing things...

take again for example the airplane. the first is the dream to fly. next is the invention of the first airplane. dreaming on further we invented the jet plane. further we invented the stealth bomber. it is no longer just called an airplane but a stealth bomber AIRCRAFT.

now taking communism in context, people first had the dream. then out comes communism. further out comes post-modernism. now they are supposed to dream back to communism? i don't think so.

here's more. let's take democracy in the Phils. People first had the dream. They fought for it, died for it, then out comes democracy...no matter how imperfect it is as of now, and now we are supposed to dream on changing it to communism? i don't think so. not only it would take us steps backwards, it's far worse. coz it would take us back to square one...

[The_Child]

Seriously, Have anybody considered Distributism as an alternative to Capitalism, in which most people overrate Communism as the only alternative?

[giddyboy]

Seriously, Have anybody considered Distributism as an alternative to Capitalism, in which most people overrate Communism as the only alternative?

i totally agree that some people usually overrate communism as the only alternative. I even don't see it as an "alternative" for an already democratic country like ours for cryin out loud.

it's like somebody offering u a cat to replace your lost dog, pero bsan pa unsaon, the purpose is to have a pet ra gihapon. Problem is, i hate cats. worse, i'm allergic to cats...toink!

in the same breadth, why change it when u can fix it? why do we have to change a Toyota car's engine w/ an Isuzu engine (surplus pa gyud) if the problem is only the spark plugs and the distributor system?...hikhikhik (sorry, can't help it)

well, Distributism is a good theory, though it is still more of an aspiration. It's a third-way economic philosophy. Though it started to be espoused by some people in European countries only, but hey, we will never know.

[rodsky]

sorry, but i will just have to say, "Yeah Right!"...

if we take ur analogy that in technology, there was once a dream to fly across the sky that resulted into the invention of the airplane, and we parallel this to the dream on true communism as a social science? is that the only best dream for a perfect or least imperfect gov't system?

all i can say is that this analogy sucks...

why? in technology, we dream of things that could still happen. that would still hold true for social science. and not the things that happened already but still wanna dream on it again.

my point is that, communism has already happened, been tried but failed. it is HISTORY already and not to be dreamt on again. it is like dreaming of reviving a kalesa to solve our global warming & oil crises.

mind u, these communist countries like China & N. Korea haven't been dreaming of a true communism coz they already did it (maybe almost). but thinking forward, they resorted to post-modernism to adjust to our changing times.

System of governance could evolve. We have already the UK, UAE, and even EU for example. Countries are even going global representation like in the U.N. and ASEAN.

How capitalism is applied could evolve. we even already invented Entrepreneurship and Networking Sales for cryin out loud.

heck, maybe in the future evolvings, communism and capitalism would be already passe 'coz we would somehow always find new ways of doing things...

take again for example the airplane. the first is the dream to fly. next is the invention of the first airplane. dreaming on further we invented the jet plane. further we invented the stealth bomber. it is no longer just called an airplane but a stealth bomber AIRCRAFT.

now taking communism in context, people first had the dream. then out comes communism. further out comes post-modernism. now they are supposed to dream back to communism? i don't think so.

here's more. let's take democracy in the Phils. People first had the dream. They fought for it, died for it, then out comes democracy...no matter how imperfect it is as of now, and now we are supposed to dream on changing it to communism? i don't think so. not only it would take us steps backwards, it's far worse. coz it would take us back to square one...

I have, time and time again been stressing that Marx and the others before him envisioned a way of running things devoid of the current problem of who owns and controls the means of production. Why is it that none of you have brought back that issue to me? Tell me about the means of production and why people at the bottom of the food chain are so adamant on changing this status quo.

Again, you constantly use the framework of the current global social maturity, a framework which I seriously think is light years from a maturity that should bring better lives for most if not all people. The communism that you imply in your statement "communism has already happened" was applied during a period in human history when social consciousness was still emerging from a post-Victorian (in the West) and post-Feudal/Colonial (in the eastern countries) era, a point in human consciousness where freedom was still being grasped and craved for by people who were previously denied/deprived of it--just like a child who was prohibited from eating candy for a month, and then you gave him that candy, do you think in that first few seconds while he's eating, what you say when you talk about, say, a new pair of shoes, will stick into his mind? No--all his full attention will be on eating the candy. You have to wait a little bit longer until the child gets tired of eating candy, and then talk to him about shoes. Same thing happened when socialism/communism was then introduced into this young "free" world--it simply wasn't ready for it. And I still believe the current world maturity level is still not ready for it.

I'll give you a good example of the entire world "not being ready" for a big change in how they perceive the world. Take classical Greece and Rome. During those times, slavery was perfectly fine. Even people like Aristotle supported it. Hundreds of years after the classical age, men and women have fought and died to abolish this cruel system, yet it prevailed. Then, in the mid-1800's, in the United States, one group of people decided that slavery was not right, and thus the US Civil War erupted, and after that, not only did slavery massively diminish worldwide, but a certain level of maturity has been globally attained as to why slavery should not be allowed.

Frankly, in a world where when people still keep on watching American Idol, or endlessly debating whether Obama or Clinton or McCain should be the next US president, or trying to keep abreast with what Paris Hilton's next boo-boo is, just keeps telling me that the world is a looong ways off to the kind of social maturity I wish for it to have.

-RODION

[giddyboy]

I have, time and time again been stressing that Marx and the others before him envisioned a way of running things devoid of the current problem of who owns and controls the means of production. Why is it that none of you have brought back that issue to me? Tell me about the means of production and why people at the bottom of the food chain are so adamant on changing this status quo.

Again, you constantly use the framework of the current global social maturity, a framework which I seriously think is light years from a maturity that should bring better lives for most if not all people. The communism that you imply in your statement "communism has already happened" was applied during a period in human history when social consciousness was still emerging from a post-Victorian (in the West) and post-Feudal/Colonial (in the eastern countries) era, a point in human consciousness where freedom was still being grasped and craved for by people who were previously denied/deprived of it--just like a child who was prohibited from eating candy for a month, and then you gave him that candy, do you think in that first few seconds while he's eating, what you say when you talk about, say, a new pair of shoes, will stick into his mind? No--all his full attention will be on eating the candy. You have to wait a little bit longer until the child gets tired of eating candy, and then talk to him about shoes. Same thing happened when socialism/communism was then introduced into this young "free" world--it simply wasn't ready for it. And I still believe the current world maturity level is still not ready for it.

I'll give you a good example of the entire world "not being ready" for a big change in how they perceive the world. Take classical Greece and Rome. During those times, slavery was perfectly fine. Even people like Aristotle supported it. Hundreds of years after the classical age, men and women have fought and died to abolish this cruel system, yet it prevailed. Then, in the mid-1800's, in the United States, one group of people decided that slavery was not right, and thus the US Civil War erupted, and after that, not only did slavery massively diminish worldwide, but a certain level of maturity has been globally attained as to why slavery should not be allowed.

if u believe that the current world is still immature for true communism, mura2x ra sab ko mkaingon nga the current world is not yet mature to be ready for true democracy.

if u say that there were Marx, Lenin, and others espousing communism/socialism, there were also great men who espoused diff. forms of democracy. you cannot say communism is right and democracy is wrong, or vice versa. they could be both right, or wrong, or something in between. whichever u choose, that's the path that u will have to take. either u evolve the communism u had before and now or the democracy u have before and now into something post-modern.

i know that u r stressing "means of production". but talking about this subject will still lead u to the same issue on communism, democracy, or capitalism. how the means of production is applied is vital to knowing what path to whatever system of governance u want.

Frankly, in a world where when people still keep on watching American Idol, or endlessly debating whether Obama or Clinton or McCain should be the next US president, or trying to keep abreast with what Paris Hilton's next boo-boo is, just keeps telling me that the world is a looong ways off to the kind of social maturity I wish for it to have.
-RODION

watching American idol? what's wrong with that?
debating whether who should be the next US president? what's wrong with that?

those don't make a person socially immature...for pete's sakes.

[arubinkun]

my thoughts on this... any form of governance, as long as it is headed by a corrupt leader, may it be communism, republican, democratic, hierarchy or the likes will never prosper. The only time that a government will be perfect if the laws of the land are ordained by God and that the leaders are God-fearing people themselves...