The Roman Catholic Church~ Questions

[shimiyu]

---

God is not here.
If He is, He would not let bad things happen to good people.

But God is not here simply because we are not that significant to Him.
He can not waste His time watching us all the time.

There are Millions of galaxies in the universe,
God would not watch each galaxies all the time.

I don't get it. If God is so unknowable, and we are wayyy out of His league in knowing Him, why all these claims Mr. Stingray?

[Hellblazer]

is God here?

God is in a different thread. not here.

[entrepreneur101]

LOL

[mordecai_327]

well, Brother, i respect your side and my answers are there already. Its our Faith.

Peace and may God Bless us all!

...sure, no prob.

:: One just have to learn the Church's history to know what really happened. Otherwise one's own claim(s) is/are unsubstantiated and the understanding is baseless.

After all, God has commanded us to 'love Him with all our heart and with all our soul and with all our mind (emphasis mine) and with all our strength.' [ Deut. 6:4,5]

...lest one's faith is blind. :mrgreen:

[carmicael]

Hm, these discussions have become quite steamy.

Kyahaha... Nice exchange of ideas, pero let us remember, this topic was created to clarify people on the Catholic Faith.

No offense, but let us not try to make steamy arguments here, this is to enlighten, not to destroy. If you beg to disagree with some of this religion's practices, then place it on another post.

Now, to the Catholics who got quite pissed with some of the posts here, let us try to keep our cool and respond in a good manner, hehe, I am a Catholic myself.


@mordecai_327:

I really appreciate the information that you have brought upon us. But, let me point out that you cannot force us to reject the papacy. Hehe, no offense.


Here's our assertion:

In the Old Law, the High Priest had the highest jurisdiction in religious matters (Deuteronomy 17: 8-12). St. Paul tells us that Judaism was the type or figure of Christianity in 1 Corinthians 10:11: "Now all these things happened to [the Jews] in figure...". Logic dictates that a supreme head would be necessary in the Christian Church.

In the New Testament Jesus changes Simon's name to Peter. Elsewhere in Scripture such a name change always denotes a change in status (e.g. Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, and Saul to Paul). In the Greek text, Simon's name is changed to Ï€Î*Ï„Ï�ος (Petros), and in the second half of the verse the "rock" in the phrase "on this rock" is the word Ï€Î*Ï„Ï�α (petra).

However, while the genders are different, this is purely a grammatical requirement of the Greek language, an artifact of the translation into Greek of the Aramaic that Jesus spoke, and an attempt to preserve a pun. It is not an attempt to make a distinction (that is mainly confined to Greek poetry) between "rock" and "small stone" or "pebble", as some Protestants interpret it to be. In the classics, including works by Plato and Sophocles, there are also many occasions of Ï€Î*Ï„Ï�ος used to designate "rock".

A male given name should be masculine (-ος), whilst Ï€Î*Ï„Ï�α, the word for "rock", is feminine (-α). In Aramaic, the word for rock is (variously transliterated into the Latin alphabet as "Kefa", "Kepha", "Cephas", and also transliterated into the Greek alphabet as Κήφας;, in the Gospel of John chapter 1 verse 42). In Aramaic, the same word would have been used in both places, and Jesus is directly referring to Peter when stating "on this rock will I build my church". (This is supported by the fact that the Peshitta, written in Syriac, a language cognate with Aramaic, makes no distinction between the two words.) Jesus thus declares the primacy of Peter amongst the Apostles, and a proper English translation in the style of the King James Version, if translated from the original context, would be "Thou art Rock, and upon this rock will I build my church".

The Gospel of Matthew was written in the Koine dialect of Greek, where there was no distinction between the words petros and petra; both simply meant "rock". Some Protestants point to a distinction present in a different form of Greek, but not in the one actually used by the author of the Gospel.

Translating the Gospel of Matthew into French incurs no problem as ordinary translation into English does, as Tu es Pierre, et sur cette pierre je bâtirai mon Eglise, et les portes de l'enfer ne prévaudront point contre elle equally preserves the asserted original Aramaic sense. A better English translation, ignoring the tradition of naming the saint Peter in English, would be you are Craig, and on this crag I shall build my church..., relying on English use of the Gaelic name Craig (meaning rock) instead of using the name Peter.

A precise English translation would be "Thou art Rock, and upon this very (or same) rock will I build my church", since Matthew uses the demonstrative pronoun taute, which means "this very" or this same, when he refers to the rock on which Jesus' church will be built. When a demonstrative pronoun is used with the Greek word for "and", kai, the pronoun refers back to the preceding noun. The second rock Jesus refers to must be the same rock as the first one; and Peter is the rock in both cases.

Jesus also said to Peter in verse 19, "I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven." Especially for the Hebrew people, keys were a symbol of authority. Indeed, Jesus declares in the Book of Revelation, that He has the "keys of death and hell," which means that He has power over death and hell; Isaiah 22:21-22 also supports this. Cardinal Gibbons, in his book The Faith of Our Fathers, points out that keys are still a symbol of authority in today's culture; he uses the example of someone giving the keys of his house to another person, and that the latter represented the owner of the house in his absence.

Another source of Peter's supremacy can be found in John 21:15-17, where Christ tells Peter three times to "feed His sheep" and "feed His lambs." The "sheep" are understood to be the stronger portion of Jesus' flock (the clergy), and the "lambs" are understood as the weaker portion (the laity). From this, Catholics believe that Peter was given charge over Christ's whole flock, that is, the Church.

Moreover, Peter is always named first in all listings of the Apostles; Judas is invariably mentioned last. In Matthew 10:2, Peter is described as the "first Apostle". It is important to note that Peter was neither the first Apostle in age nor election; therefore, Peter must be the first Apostle in the sense of authority.

Both Latin and Greek writers in the early church (such as the St. John Chrysostom) referred to "rock" as applying to both Peter personally and his faith symbolically, as well as seeing Christ's promise to apply more generally to his twelve apostles and the Church at large.

This is reflected in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

424 Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.

552 Simon Peter holds the first place in the college of the Twelve; Jesus entrusted a unique mission to him. Through a revelation from the Father, Peter had confessed: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Our Lord then declared to him: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." Christ, the living Stone, thus assures his Church, built on Peter, of victory over the powers of death. Because of the faith he confessed Peter will remain the unshakable rock of the Church. His mission will be to keep this faith from every lapse and to strengthen his brothers in it.

Regarding the Roman Catholic interpretation of Matthew 16:18-19, Jaroslav Pelikan writes, "As Roman Catholic scholars now concede, the ancient Christian father Cyprian used it to prove the authority of the bishop—not merely of the Roman bishop, but of every bishop," referring to Maurice Bevenot's work on St. Cyprian.

Eastern Catholics agree with the above, but also consider Peter to be representative of all bishops. In this, they represent a middle-ground between the Roman Catholic position and that of the Eastern Orthodox in the next section.

Though among the Twelve Peter is predominant in the first chapters of Acts, James "the brother of the Lord" is shown to be a leader in his own right in later chapters. Some assume James outranks Peter because he speaks last in the Council of Jerusalem and suggests the final ruling (concerning Gentile converts and Jewish practices such as circumcision) agreed upon by all, and because Paul mentions him before Peter and John when he calls them pillars of the church in Jerusalem. James was indeed the first bishop or patriarch of Jerusalem according to tradition. However, Roman Catholics believe the bishop of Jerusalem was not by that fact the head of the Christian church, since the leadership rested in Peter as the "Rock" and "Chief Shepherd". It is believed Peter entrusted the Jerusalem community to James when he was forced to leave Jerusalem due to Herod Agrippa's persecution.

For Catholics, the fact that the new name for Simon is Peter is in fact itself very significant. In the old testament God is frequently referred to as a Rock or stone. Jesus refers to himself as the corner stone. The book of Daniel contains a prophecy that a Rock or stone from the mountain of God (heaven) will come down to earth and destroy the pagan kings. The rock will then grow itself until it covers the entire earth. Protestants consider this prophecy to allude to the end times but Catholics consider the prophecy to refer specifically to Jesus as the Rock from Heaven. Further, Catholics see the fact that the Rock does not leave but stays to until it covers the entire earth to mean that the Church, built of the Rock of Peter, is the body of Christ, the Rock from Heaven, and that the Rock will eventually cover the entire Earth which is why the term Catholic (universal or worldwide) is the most common designation for the Catholic Church.



This is what we believe in, now, and forever.



Peace, bro, not here to argue, just here for the clarity of my fellow Catholics, and so you may have a better view on our assertions, not to convince you in any way, for I know, a man with a faith of that caliber, is hard to change. hehehe. Let Christ be our guide, as always.

Peace in Christ!

[bcasabee]

Peace in Christ

[connection2wealth]

amen

[Soul Doctor]

I don't get it. If God is so unknowable, and we are wayyy out of His league in knowing Him, why all these claims Mr. Stingray?

What claim?
Which one?

[carmicael]

God is not here.
If He is, He would not let bad things happen to good people.

But God is not here simply because we are not that significant to Him.
He can not waste His time watching us all the time.

If you have an aquarium,
you can not watch your fish all the time, right?
What if you have a million aquaria?
Would you watch each aquarium at a time?

There are Millions of galaxies in the universe,
God would not watch each galaxies all the time.

God is omnipotent and omniscient, he watches, all that time.

[NASYO]

Imagina kon walay mga nasud
Dili kaayo ni lisud buhaton
Walay mupatay ug pakamatyan
Ug walay relihiyon sab
Imagina tanang tawo
Nabuhi sa kalinaw