"Habemus Pappam" No More?

[brownprose]

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ona different note. Try and research about the 9/11 prophecies, daghan man d ay...

yah...zillions. and unfortunately they are mostly esoteric attempts to find a connection to an event. Doomsday mongering has been an avocation since the olden days to those who see God like a "berdugo."

it is man who ordains his own destruction...there has never been so much man-made killings in history than the fortuitous events (acts of God) that man encountered.

[HoundedbyHeaven]

Yes...which brings me to my previous answer [and to the assertion of the catholic church about "repentance or wrath"] that prophecies only happen when things go wrong. Prophecies (as you pointed out) are "warnings" of what is yet to come when people choose to stay or lead a sinful life.

That's interesting. Though I did point out that prophecies have conditions, I was indeed referring only to those with conditions, and not all kinds of prophecies.

I maintain that there are (and have been) prophecies that are unconditional and that are certain (and have indeed) to happen. Do you deny these kind of prophecies exists, Sir?

Peace.

Thanks.

[brownprose]

That's interesting. Though I did point out that prophecies have conditions, I was indeed referring only to those with conditions, and not all kinds of prophecies.

I maintain that there are (and have been) prophecies that are unconditional and that are certain (and have indeed) to happen. Do you deny these kind of prophecies exists, Sir?

Peace.

Thanks.

I don't consider unconditional prophesies as prophesies per se but interventions.

Allow me to explain. For me or for us to understand a prophecy, let me compare it to like driving your car and a traffic sign. When you ignore a sign like "No Left Turn" you could: 1) Get hit 2) Hit someone or 3) Get a ticket.

Prophecies are primarily signs or warnings that man should not dismiss otherwise he could be in trouble later.

But why are we seeing a zillion prophecies in the bible that came true? did God really fix all these things to happen? No. God can also see events in the future that's why He assigns prophets to let people know not to mess up with their life now or else they will pay for it.

What about those things or prophecies spoken of by the Bible about Jesus during their time? Can they be considered part of an "inevitable history"? Not exactly -- but this is what I call an example of a "necessary intervention" by God in our history as a means to reveal himself and his participation towards redemption to past and present peoples.

Even before man was created, God knew already of what is going to happen to man. That's why we notice a great deal in our history of God's intervention. Events like the 10 plagues during Moses' time, the people sent in by God like Jesus and other great characters in the Bible were all examples of interventions and they too were spoken of by the prophets. Perhaps we can consider them as "unconditional prophecies" as you mentioned. But i don't consider them to be technically a prophecy.

I think we only vary in semantics but in concept we may have the same view.

[HoundedbyHeaven]

I don't consider unconditional prophesies as prophesies per se but interventions....I think we only vary in semantics but in concept we may have the same view.

Apparently (though I might point out that the word "prophecy" is still the common theological term to what you refer as "intervention").

As a sort of opposite to a prophecy, what is your opinion of to claims of having been shown exactly how biblical events unfolded in a mystical vision hundreds of years after they took place?

Peace.

[HoundedbyHeaven]

[On a personal note, what if things go right? and when that happens, it would make the prophets become false prophets, wouldn't they? ]

Hey, I seem to have missed this one. Hmm, let's see, if God sends prophets to warn sinners of the punishments He has prepared for them and they indeed repent (as in the case of Nineveh), then I think the purpose of the prophecy was accomplished, right? If so, then they're still not false prophets (hehehe).

Peace.

[brownprose]

As a sort of opposite to a prophecy, what is your opinion of to claims of having been shown exactly how biblical events unfolded in a mystical vision hundreds of years after they took place?

Peace.

Just visions.

Most of what I read about those "visions coming true", were mostly from out of faulty understanding of literature or exaggerations.

[pijavier]

yah...zillions. and unfortunately they are mostly esoteric attempts to find a connection to an event. Doomsday mongering has been an avocation since the olden days to those who see God like a "berdugo."

it is man who ordains his own destruction...there has never been so much man-made killings in history than the fortuitous events (acts of God) that man encountered.

Oh for me doomsday is different, those are worst. I recieve free literature about that, I don't believe it but i just read and gather info anyhow.

Some americans are crazy and saying all sorts of things about the end of the world and that the anti christ will come from europe. some do connect and some don't but i don't want to live my life in fear and afraid that something like what they say will happen.

if it happens, it does, what's impt is we got God.

[brownprose]

Oh for me doomsday is different, those are worst. I recieve free literature about that, I don't believe it but i just read and gather info anyhow.

Some americans are crazy and saying all sorts of things about the end of the world and that the anti christ will come from europe. some do connect and some don't but i don't want to live my life in fear and afraid that something like what they say will happen.

if it happens, it does, what's impt is we got God.

absolutely!

[pijavier]

Hey, I seem to have missed this one. Hmm, let's see, if God sends prophets to warn sinners of the punishments He has prepared for them and they indeed repent (as in the case of Nineveh), then I think the purpose of the prophecy was accomplished, right? If so, then they're still not false prophets (hehehe).

Peace.

Anything is always possible, but we do not need to worry if we are prepared. most of the time, because prophecies and visions are rampant, it is hard to tell which is real and which is not, and it is close to crossing the line of predictions.

Better wait for the future to revel itself rather than go ahead and know what it is.

as long as were prepared

[brownprose]

prophecies are not predictions. one time i was in a meeting (Bible study) and the guy leading it said somting to this visitor and tumpak kaayo, the guy broke down in tears.

he simply said something like, God is going to take you to different places, i see you on an airplane and someone who cares about you will you to the airport in the family car. You have a gap between this person but you will mend things up before you leave.

The guy tells us that his work is taking him to Japan tomorrow and that his dad was taking him to the airport but they were in a big fight and he was thinking of moving out of the house.

It gave us goosebumps after knowing that.

The guest speaker did not know the visitor, they just met there.

Is that classified as prophecy?

i missed to answer this one.

dunno, the guy/leader was probably too nosy about somebody else's life.

levity aside, i don't dismiss the possibility but I'm really skeptical. I think he's just too good a guesser or must have known the guy or the guys father. who knows?