Gays and Lesbians in Churches

[FK]

...god created humans to be superior than any amphibians, animals or mammals...we are higher and more powerful than them...and comparing ourselves to them is human descrimination itself....

ot: wot i reli min is bein' an animal lover is good....bot...it seems that u understand animals more that human bein's...gays..lesbians are humans whattheck you were comparing them to any chimpanzees n the like...?..

nag too sab ko nga man is way superior than animals, but it seems karon nga ang atong pagka bright wala na hinoon gigamit sa kaayohan. Nga maka ingon na hinoon ko mas maau pa ang animal nga bisan tuod dili bright nagtoman pa sa onsay normal, dili pareho sa taw nga tungod sa ka bright maghimo og ilahang sakto.

...for me natural law is flexible...it is not constant..and therefore bein' homosexual is not against to it... nature forces is the cause why some people became lesbians or gays...

wot i reli min is...homosexuals are natural...kay dili tinuyo ng mahimo kang bayot or tomboy...toink

wa gi toyo or mao na ila gipili? Ngano man lagi naa man mga bayot nga nalalaki.
kanang isulod nimo ang imong buhi sa lubot Natural na? Onsay gamit sa lubot bai?

kong mangamatay ang tanan straight... homosexuals na lang mahabilin onsa kaha mahitabo?

[giver_bert]

...for me natural law is flexible...it is not constant..and therefore bein' homosexual is not against to it... nature forces is the cause why some people became lesbians or gays...

wot i reli min is...homosexuals are natural...kay dili tinuyo ng mahimo kang bayot or tomboy...toink

if homosexual behavior is to be considered "normal" what does human science have to say about it? are there verifiable facts to support the contentions of the homosexual movement that their "orientation" is somehow genetic? like a person being born white or black, male or female? should we fundamentally alter our society's laws for a "chosen behavior"? if we make this paradigm shift, what behavior will someone want to normalize next??

when we talk about what is normal, we are talking about what is in accordance with the norm.. what is common.. when we talk about what is natural, we are talking about what is in accordance with nature.. most arguments favoring homosexuality as normal and natural, therefore, are aimed at creating an impression that homosexuality is extremely widespread, that it occurs everywhere in nature..

@SPRINGFIELD_XD_40

All person are wether pari ka o dili are all subjected to being GAY for I consider it a DISEASE

-...huh? a disease? so...wots the medical term of such disease?(Bayotosis and Tomboyosis?..hehehehe) who discovered it?...ehem..i know now...daddyy Garfield!....heheheheeh..pagkaimmoral...NAH, it's NOT a disease...for me...it's a Feelin'...yeah...an emotional condition that is stable and very agressive....a mental condition that triggers a helluva different lifestyle....It's not a disease because it doesn't malfunctioned the immune system of a human bein'.....that's y am favor for gays/lesbians to hold positions n church coz i believe that they have a helluva lot of things to offer....but as what i have said above...there's no use for me to say YES...because i know that.... still... mah argument is not winnable(sorry...cant find any words...hehehe)...pax

the burden of proof should be with those who say it is normal and natural.. i say this because the only hard evidence that we have.. that is, the biological evidence - clearly indicates that it is a disorder, in that homosexuality represents a tendency to want to use body parts for some purpose other than that for which they were designed.. the ***** and vagina are certainly constructed for male - female intercourse.. their complimentary shapes, the location of highly sensitive nerve endings show, without a doubt, the divine intent..

[lindsay]

na di gyud na maayo kay manlaki/ mamabaye unya na...mau lang ug di bata ang mabiktima. kabawo na baya ka sa atong culture basta pari or madre kompyansa kau ta kay too lagi mahadlokon sa ginoo.

[Empress_Of_Drac]

@daddy garfield

Lastly ... di nako cge post diri na topic oi .... swito ra ba kaau ko nyhahahaha ..... basin ma-aan ko na BAYOT .... di pa ko bayot ra ba PRE CURIOUS pa lang nyahahaha kana si AGUY NERZ post curious na siya na stage !! Nyahahahaha

ot: wahahaha..toink..smell somethin' fishy here...uhhmmnn..smells like pH..toink..hehehehee

[Empress_Of_Drac]

@FK

wa gi toyo or mao na ila gipili? Ngano man lagi naa man mga bayot nga nalalaki.

kanang isulod nimo ang imong buhi sa lubot Natural na? Onsay gamit sa lubot bai?

kong mangamatay ang tanan straight... homosexuals na lang mahabilin onsa kaha mahitabo?

...la jud na gitoyo..kay kinsa mang tarung nga straight nga lalaki nga gusto mavayot para lait laiton sa mga tawo?..kinsa man?...maong ila ng nabuhat kay mao nay gidektar sa physical and psychological aspect sa ilang pagkatawo...n bayot nga nalalaki?..hmmnn..ingna nuon nga bayot nga nagpakalalaki...ilang gipugngan ang ilang pagkabayot...mah fwend's father is a gay...and he's proud of it...nga gay siya..pero gay siya nga naay anak....see?...bayot japun siya pero la lang siya nagbuhat ug mga malaw ay(kuno) susama sa gibuhat anang ubang mga bayot...getch ma point?...
unsay gamit sa lubot?..di paslakanan sa gusto nimong ipaslak...change is the only constant thingy in this world...d pa ta ana nakadiscover ang mga bayot ug new *** strategy..wot's wron' wd usin' ur anus in sexual activity?...naa bay balaud nga nagdili sa paggamit ana?....the problem s some pweeps are just very closeminded...they are afraid of changes...they want the old ways ol the time...hehehehe...that's one of the things i cudnt understand wd some people....they are very conservative....to the point of bein' so righteous dot they see themselves as perfect and stainfree...dheck...just wonderin'.....

ot:wot i reli min s...f mamatay tanang straight? then dots the end of the world...wot dyo think? unsa kahay buhaton sa bayot ug tomboy aron dili mapuo ang race sa tawo?.....they wod have *** maybe..but then that's for the purpose of propagation'...not that they like it...but in dot situation you gave..they have no choice..but stil they wud remain gays and lesbians..ol their lives.....

[FK]

see they stop being homosexual to preserve human kind.
kay kahibaw sila nga kong magpadayon sila og jer2x sa pareho nilang laki or pareho nilang babae mangahurot sila, now wala gihapon ka kita onsa ang sayop sa homosexual?

na mao... hala sige ipaslak ng tanan nimong ganahan sa imong lubot, dili nimo apilon imo ilong?

gawasan kana sa hugaw... wala ka kahibaw ana?

close minded thing again... puol na baya ana inyo battle cry oi. Sige mo reklamo nga kami self-righteous, kamo dili? nga ga too man sab mo sakto na inyong pagka homosexual.

[dacs]

...or lemme say..not practical...8's very obvious that in the time of christ, males were the more dominant animels...so that may explain why he chooses males for his disciples.....

It may be quite obvious from the Gospels that Jesus Christ would not follow 'conventions' if it is not in accordance with the law of God. It is prohibited for Jews to have any contact with Samaritans. Yet, Christ did make contact a couple of times. (It may be deduced that He did this more often than what is recorded in the Bible.) Moreover, it is God - the God of Abraham - who approved such heirarchy within His Chosen People. Ever heard of the rebellion of Korah? You should read Numbers 16.

but aren't they very close-minded?...?....by just assumin' that thats what God wants?...do they really know what God is thinkin'..do they really know that what our bros and sis gays and lesbians are doin' are immoral acts?

Let's face it. You are making your own assumptions here. Can you do that? Isn't it your obligation to really know if these things are really just 'assumptions' of the Church? Did you try to find out if the stand of the Church is objectively reasonable? Your last question works both ways : how do you know that it is not an immoral act? Because you say and feel so? So, you become your own pope and say to yourself 'I would not submit/serve'. Please try to learn why the authority of the Church as vested by Christ Himself is a matter of doctrine for Christians.

-for me...God's plan for his church is to be of good service..to His people....not to choose genders or ***...as basis if you can serve or not...old traditions or traditions sometimes is not a good foundation for faith or belief

What authority do you have? How many 'for me' opinions are there? Nothing is right just because you say it is. Have you read about the basis of each of the traditions you are against? There are traditions and there are Sacred Traditions. I honestly believe that you don't understand what the Church mean about Sacred Traditions. The Bible itself is one of its Sacred Traditions - things that had been passed on.

...what if...a holocaust would occur...that would annihilate all male specy on this planet?...what will happen to the church?......there are nuns..ryt..but still...can't female be priest?...for me yes...if and only if our church is not that closeminded...

That is improbable. Yet, you want to use the improbable to prove your point. Touche!

for me, lesbians and gays are like females in old times...all the things they do are considered immoral acts...just like females before...

Really? Prove please.

the bad thing is...filipino lesbians and gays are just less fortunate becoz they are filipinos...filipinos... who are bounded wd this some freakin' traditions and cultures...

What is so freakin' about them? In effect, you are saying here that our ancestors are freaks. I don't agree.

...livin' in this country wd people sooo righteous...so...perfectionists...that for bein' so..they forget to see their own flaws and mistakes...a very sad thing to say...but that's the common thing that happens nowadays...

Now I doubt if you have truly studied what is demanded for being a Christian. The Old Testament and Christ categorically called us to perfection (Genesis 17:1, Deuteronomy 18:13, 2 Kings 22:24, Luke 6:40, 1 Corinthians 1:10, John 17:23, Matthew 5:4.

The law is not nullified just because those who implement them are sinners themselves. Christ said to his disciples to do what the scribes and the Pharisees tell them, but not to do what they do.

what i really mean when was talkin' 'bout bein' true to oneself is when u r able to express what you feel RESPONSIBLY...that..u hurt no one in doin' so...u step no ryts or dignity in doin' so....it's a matter of conception and interpretation..really...

As the Mystical Body of Christ, the Church is one. When one of its members disobey a commandment of God, the whole Church suffers. What you are suggesting here is that the Church should cease and desist. The Church says - with good reasons, by the way - that it is immoral to have homosexual relationship, and that applies to the whole Mystical Body of Christ. By disobeying, you are hurting the Church and each individual members.

lesbians and gays who express themselves by havin' affairs is bein' true to themselves...as long as they hurt nobody....and they don't violate any laws on this land...then i can tell them to go on....normally...it's normal..and it's human instinct to search for a mate who would give love to him in return...so what's wrong wd that?...

Let me point you to the definition of morality I agree on. You want people to be subject only to the law of the land. What if the land is a Catholic land and therefore adheres to Catholic morality? Instead of adherring to the law, you would want to change it. They have first violated the law of the Church - of which they are subject to if they are members. Second, you would want to change the law so that the violation would be nullified. Your statement and situation would then be untenable.

...that's y am a devoted catholic...eventhough i dislike some teachings in our church... i was born catholic...i will die catholic...that's how loyal i am to this religion....but mah loyalty is not blind...and when time comes...when i still have the oppurtunity...i'll still raise up what i think...without disrepecting them.....that...lesbians and gays...can hold positions in church...but as for now...i have no choice but to say NO..

Your loyalty is admirable. But is it really loyalty or do you just want to call it that? Being loyal is being unswerving in allegiance. You don't have that. Loyalty is being faithful to a cause, ideal, custom, institution. You questioned the very ideals of the Church; you don't want to subject to its laws (at least, to some of it). My loyalty to the Church is not blind - as you may call it. I personally studied her reasons for such a stand. I try to find out if the issue (any issue) have been infalliably taught or not. If not, then I - as any other Catholic - am free to give my opinion based on what I have learned from the writing of the early Christians and Fathers and Doctors of the Church.

[splendid moonlight]

would you believe that a gay or lesbian myt change his/her lifestyle when in church service?

but they should. even straight men and women should. my idea of serving the church by becoming a priest or nun is to cease to be anything else other than being the servant of God and of his people. any person's - straight or gay - sexuality should be inconsequential if one should choose this path.

[PissKhanXXX]

here's a point to ponder on.

we are nobody to condemn sinners as we are all sinners... just leave them be and do your own thing.

[potterboy]

updated list:

PRO

luvmebabhe!
tarsus
kremlin
wiwiwab
clarkhent
chitgoks
Nonon
tolstoi
PisskhanXXX

CON

brod SPRINGFIELD_XD_40
giver_bert
luthienne(?)
mannyamador
FK
dacs
dudoyjoie
Von!-x
P-Chan
roselyn
robearthFX
Empress_Of_Drac
jerx d great(?)
Burby_dull