The Roman Catholic Church~ Questions

[brownprose]

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Some answers on the question taken from: http://www.zenit.org/article-14559?l=english


Funeral Masses for a Suicide


ROME, NOV. 15, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Answered by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University.

Q: What is the current stand of the Church regarding the possibility of funeral Masses "in corpore presente" of persons who are said to have committed suicide? Is it true that there already are mitigating circumstances, like the possibility of irrationality at the moment of taking one's life (even if there was no note), whereby it would be possible to suppose that the person was not in his right mind, and that therefore it is licit to let the funeral entourage to enter a church and a funeral Mass be said? -- E.C.M., Manila, Philippines

A: In earlier times a person who committed suicide would often be denied funeral rites and even burial in a Church cemetery. However, some consideration has always been taken into account of the person's mental state at the time.

In one famous case, when Rudolph, the heir to the throne of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, committed suicide in 1889, the medical bulletin declared evidence of "mental aberrations" so that Pope Leo XIII would grant a religious funeral and burial in the imperial crypt. Other similar concessions were probably quietly made in less sonorous cases.

Canon law no longer specifically mentions suicide as an impediment to funeral rites or religious sepulture.

Canon 1184 mentions only three cases: a notorious apostate, heretic or schismatic; those who requested cremation for motives contrary to the Christian faith; and manifest sinners to whom a Church funeral cannot be granted without causing public scandal to the faithful. These restrictions apply only if there has been no sign of repentance before death.

The local bishop weighs any doubtful cases and in practice a prudent priest should always consult with the bishop before denying a funeral Mass.

A particular case of suicide might enter into the third case -- that of a manifest and unrepentant sinner -- especially if the suicide follows another grave crime such as murder.

In most cases, however, the progress made in the study of the underlying causes of self-destruction shows that the vast majority are consequences of an accumulation of psychological factors that impede making a free and deliberative act of the will.

Thus the general tendency is to see this extreme gesture as almost always resulting from the effects of an imbalanced mental state and, as a consequence, it is no longer forbidden to hold a funeral rite for a person who has committed this gesture although each case must still be studied on its merits.

Finally, it makes little difference, from the viewpoint of liturgical law, whether the body is present or not. If someone is denied a Church funeral, this applies to all public ceremonies although it does not impede the celebration of private Masses for the soul of the deceased.

The same principle applies to funeral Masses of those whose body is unavailable for burial due to loss or destruction. Certainly the rites are different when the body is present or absent, but the Church's public intercession for the deceased is equally manifest in both cases.

[knockout]

hehe thanks a lot bro...at least klaro gyud, hehe. ana nalng tana permi ang mga pare oi, aron inig ingon sa mga members nga Amen, dili sila mag duha duha ba, basin lain ang pasabot ato sa pare then Amen lang gihapon ang tubag. hehe

[jntio]

[brownprose]

hehe thanks a lot bro...at least klaro gyud, hehe. ana nalng tana permi ang mga pare oi, aron inig ingon sa mga members nga Amen, dili sila mag duha duha ba, basin lain ang pasabot ato sa pare then Amen lang gihapon ang tubag. hehe

On a personal note, I am not a Catholic (although I was once)...I am of the belief that no doctrine can make a person beautiful in the eyes of his Creator. The measure or standard our God (as I know him and don't take my word for it) is one that is eternally compassionate. God's mercy is open to even those who even commit suicide.

Many suicides are results of desperation. Martin Luther once was angry of the church back then when a carpenter killed himself and was denied a Catholic burial. He personally did the rites and said that the man succumbed to the devil's schemes.

[dartzed]

Naa ko nabasa sa Chick Publication

Praying For The Dead
Can the living help the dead by praying for them? According to Catholic doctrine, they can:

"Communion with the dead. In full consciousness of this communication of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and because it is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins she offers her suffrages for them. Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping them, but also of making their intercession for us effective." Pg. 250, #958

Three statements here contradict the Bible. Let's look at each:

1. "It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead."

According to God's Word, it is neither holy nor wholesome to pray for the dead. Christians are instructed to pray for the living, but not one example exists of true Christians praying for the dead. This is another tradition of men.

2. Praying for the dead can help loose them from their sins.

Here is a tradition built upon a tradition. The Scriptures never suggest that this statement is true. As we have already learned, one must be loosed from their sins before death.

3. Our prayers make their intercession for us effective.

Like building blocks, they keep piling, tradition on top of tradition, all without any scriptural foundation. Now, we have reached a peak, where our prayers are supposedly capable of:

"...making their intercession for us effective."

The obvious question is: Why do we need others interceding for us? Isn't it enough to have God the Son interceding for us? Does the Creator of the Universe need the help of mortal men and women to persuade the Father on our behalf?

What a degrading attitude towards Jesus Christ. The Catholic position insults the Lord by portraying Him as an incapable, powerless bystander who needs the help of anyone He can grab to persuade the Father. This is not the picture of Jesus presented in the Bible. Jesus declared of Himself:

"...All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matthew 28:18

Here's another Biblical portrait of Jesus Christ:

"Which he (God) wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church," Ephesians 1:20-22

How different this is from the Catholic picture of Jesus, which reduces the Lord to a spiritual weakling devoid of power and authority. Dear Catholic friend, Jesus Christ does not need help from anyone! He is well able to do the job:

"Wherefore he (Jesus) is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25

Before you pray for another deceased loved one, please understand that these are all man-made rules. God never asked you to pray for the dead, nor did He promised it would do any good.

As a young Catholic, I always assumed that all these rules were somehow coming from God. But they' re not! Read the Bible and see for yourself. The Catechism teaches traditions of men, not commands of God.

The Same Pattern

Surely, you have noticed that Jesus has taken yet another serious demotion. From the One and only Divine Intercessor at the Father's right hand, Jesus is hurled down into the crowd of dead humans and is relegated to being one of many intercessors. Why does the Catholic religion keep doing this to the Lord Jesus Christ?

Conclusion

Once again, you are faced with several important decisions:

Will you continue praying for the dead, knowing that it is a tradition of men and not a command of God?
Will you cling to a doctrine which degrades the Lord Jesus Christ so that church tradition can be exalted?
Will you knowingly reject the Word of God to follow man' s traditions?
These are decisions you must make. As you ponder these things, remember the words of Jesus:

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Matthew 15:9

kita ka ani sa non-roman catholic na site; pangitaa ang tubag sa catholic ana...
para mkabaw ka noh ask an apologist sa romano na simbahan ai.. nya iprint ni imo gpost.. ipakita nila..

hehehe

[dartzed]

Some answers on the question taken from: http://www.zenit.org/article-14559?l=english


Funeral Masses for a Suicide


ROME, NOV. 15, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Answered by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University.

Q: What is the current stand of the Church regarding the possibility of funeral Masses "in corpore presente" of persons who are said to have committed suicide? Is it true that there already are mitigating circumstances, like the possibility of irrationality at the moment of taking one's life (even if there was no note), whereby it would be possible to suppose that the person was not in his right mind, and that therefore it is licit to let the funeral entourage to enter a church and a funeral Mass be said? -- E.C.M., Manila, Philippines

A: In earlier times a person who committed suicide would often be denied funeral rites and even burial in a Church cemetery. However, some consideration has always been taken into account of the person's mental state at the time.

In one famous case, when Rudolph, the heir to the throne of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, committed suicide in 1889, the medical bulletin declared evidence of "mental aberrations" so that Pope Leo XIII would grant a religious funeral and burial in the imperial crypt. Other similar concessions were probably quietly made in less sonorous cases.

Canon law no longer specifically mentions suicide as an impediment to funeral rites or religious sepulture.

Canon 1184 mentions only three cases: a notorious apostate, heretic or schismatic; those who requested cremation for motives contrary to the Christian faith; and manifest sinners to whom a Church funeral cannot be granted without causing public scandal to the faithful. These restrictions apply only if there has been no sign of repentance before death.

The local bishop weighs any doubtful cases and in practice a prudent priest should always consult with the bishop before denying a funeral Mass.

A particular case of suicide might enter into the third case -- that of a manifest and unrepentant sinner -- especially if the suicide follows another grave crime such as murder.

In most cases, however, the progress made in the study of the underlying causes of self-destruction shows that the vast majority are consequences of an accumulation of psychological factors that impede making a free and deliberative act of the will.

Thus the general tendency is to see this extreme gesture as almost always resulting from the effects of an imbalanced mental state and, as a consequence, it is no longer forbidden to hold a funeral rite for a person who has committed this gesture although each case must still be studied on its merits.

Finally, it makes little difference, from the viewpoint of liturgical law, whether the body is present or not. If someone is denied a Church funeral, this applies to all public ceremonies although it does not impede the celebration of private Masses for the soul of the deceased.

The same principle applies to funeral Masses of those whose body is unavailable for burial due to loss or destruction. Certainly the rites are different when the body is present or absent, but the Church's public intercession for the deceased is equally manifest in both cases.

hehehe salamatz...

[necrotic freak]

Some answers on the question taken from: http://www.zenit.org/article-14559?l=english


Funeral Masses for a Suicide


ROME, NOV. 15, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Answered by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University.

Q: What is the current stand of the Church regarding the possibility of funeral Masses "in corpore presente" of persons who are said to have committed suicide? Is it true that there already are mitigating circumstances, like the possibility of irrationality at the moment of taking one's life (even if there was no note), whereby it would be possible to suppose that the person was not in his right mind, and that therefore it is licit to let the funeral entourage to enter a church and a funeral Mass be said? -- E.C.M., Manila, Philippines

A: In earlier times a person who committed suicide would often be denied funeral rites and even burial in a Church cemetery. However, some consideration has always been taken into account of the person's mental state at the time.

In one famous case, when Rudolph, the heir to the throne of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, committed suicide in 1889, the medical bulletin declared evidence of "mental aberrations" so that Pope Leo XIII would grant a religious funeral and burial in the imperial crypt. Other similar concessions were probably quietly made in less sonorous cases.

Canon law no longer specifically mentions suicide as an impediment to funeral rites or religious sepulture.

Canon 1184 mentions only three cases: a notorious apostate, heretic or schismatic; those who requested cremation for motives contrary to the Christian faith; and manifest sinners to whom a Church funeral cannot be granted without causing public scandal to the faithful. These restrictions apply only if there has been no sign of repentance before death.

The local bishop weighs any doubtful cases and in practice a prudent priest should always consult with the bishop before denying a funeral Mass.

A particular case of suicide might enter into the third case -- that of a manifest and unrepentant sinner -- especially if the suicide follows another grave crime such as murder.

In most cases, however, the progress made in the study of the underlying causes of self-destruction shows that the vast majority are consequences of an accumulation of psychological factors that impede making a free and deliberative act of the will.

Thus the general tendency is to see this extreme gesture as almost always resulting from the effects of an imbalanced mental state and, as a consequence, it is no longer forbidden to hold a funeral rite for a person who has committed this gesture although each case must still be studied on its merits.

Finally, it makes little difference, from the viewpoint of liturgical law, whether the body is present or not. If someone is denied a Church funeral, this applies to all public ceremonies although it does not impede the celebration of private Masses for the soul of the deceased.

The same principle applies to funeral Masses of those whose body is unavailable for burial due to loss or destruction. Certainly the rites are different when the body is present or absent, but the Church's public intercession for the deceased is equally manifest in both cases.

"This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: 'Therefore [Judas Maccabeus' made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.' From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almogiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead.

[brownprose]

"This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: 'Therefore [Judas Maccabeus' made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.' From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almogiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead.

That's according to the Deuterocanonical verses. But I'm not saying you're wrong. I feel that one cannot be so dogmatic to accept the rationality of a doctrine pertaining to rites and practices of the dead. Having said that, one can just easily call on God and pray for the dead (if you will) than go through such kind of rigid ritual. After all, we all know that God is just a prayer away, right?

[necrotic freak]

That's according to the Deuterocanonical verses. But I'm not saying you're wrong. I feel that one cannot be so dogmatic to accept the rationality of a doctrine pertaining to rites and practices of the dead. Having said that, one can just easily call on God and pray for the dead (if you will) than go through such kind of rigid ritual. After all, we all know that God is just a prayer away, right?

very right! :mrgreen:

[pijavier]

the Deuterocanonicals are not important. that's why some Bibles don't have them. I agree with the post ni Necrotic Freak.

walay gamit nang mga rituals and traditions. if cge ta pamugos nga pwede ra ampoan ang patay para malangit, maypa dili nalang ta musalig sa kaluwasan sa Ginoo ky pwede rman d ay kita kita...