What is the basis of your salvation?

[circles122345]

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@rcruman

since hilig man kaau ka ug illustration na koy illustration harun masabtan pa nimo...

for example naka minyo ka sa osa ka anak nga babaye sa Royal Family sa england so matawag na pod ka ug part sa ilang pamilya therefore puede pod ka tawagun ug prince kay connected naman ka sa royal blood. Now sa imong pagminyo sa prinsesa naninguha ba ka nga mahimong royalty? or ang imong pagka royal automatic na kay nagminyo naman ka sa prinsesa? kasabot ka ani?

did you strive to become a prince or automatic ang imong pagka prince kay nagminyo naman ka sa princess? automatic diba.

Now kay prince naman ka you are expected to live like a prince so naay mga ETIQUITTES(sp?) or good works nga imong buhaton harun worthy ka sa title nimo nga prince. pero w/ or w/o these etiq princve gihapon ka kay imong asawa princess man pero bati sab tan-awon nga dili ka mo subay sa etiq sa osa prince kay salwayaun man pod.

Same thing w/ REAL CHRISTIANITY and salvation. Na christian not because of the etiquittes but because of the connection(grace) given by God through Jesus and kanang etiq (good works) mo follow na lang na.

klaro pa sa hayag sa buwan...

[IdontCare]

ikay nagsulti dili ako.

Peace!

Sa kadaghan nakong gisulti mao ra ng pontoha imong gi tubag,tsk tsk.

Ang gitubag dili pa jud major issue. cge oi sabton na lang nako.

@Circles122345

[Ironside]

First, rcruman bai i would like to apologize publicly to you for my pungent remarks i said to you before in the previous exchanges we had. I realized that I was not living up to these verses in 2 Timothy 2:24-25:


2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not strive, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, forbearing


2Ti 2:25 in meekness setting right those who oppose, if God perhaps may sometime give them repentance to acknowledgment of [the] truth,


I was wrong, i dont have any excuse for those things. It was unChristlike of me. Can you forgive me?



I would also apologize to my fellow believers here........i was not being a good witness to our faith in some of my replies to rcruman.

Did the verse mentioned or the bible mentioned that He accomplish our salvation and we are all saved?

God made salvation available to all but effectual only to those who trust in Christ for salvation. He came the first time to give His life as a ransom. In the cross and His subsequent resurrection three days after, you can pretty much see that He accomplished the work of salvation.

When Christ said that "It is Finished" He is referring to the prophecy that is written.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Hebrews 10:5-7

Ah yes, He was fulfilling that prophecy all right my friend. But if you look closely at the context rc.....if you just move two verses down......he was talking about salvation [even in that texts you posted, reading it would pretty much intimate to you the idea of salvation right? I mean...just look at verse 6 and 7]:


Heb 10:10 by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


"Once for all"------never to be repeated again. Christ offered His body for the atonement of sins once for all.

Saved from what? from eternal damnation? was Ephesians 2:8-9 mentioned about eternal damnation? read it from verse 5 it says that we are saved from sins.

Rc, sin can damn you. That is a gimme. If you dont have any sin, you wont be condemned. Spiritual Salvation in the Bible is salvation from the penalty, power and presence of sin. And look at verse 6 rc...God not only made me alive together with Christ [i was dead to God remember because of my sin? He made me alive together with Christ. When Christ resurrected I resurrected in God's reckoning], He also made me sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.


Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Eph 2:6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,


If you can believe it rc...A saved person is already in heaven in God's reckoning now. In himself, the saved person is here on earth. But IN CHRIST JESUS.....He is now in heaven sitting together with Him.


Looks like he is delivered from condemnation rc. If [for example] you are reading the Bible for the first time and you read verse 6 above, looks like you can almost say: "So there is no condemnation now to those who are IN CHRIST JESUS?"

Because before Jews or Greek consider their works as good works and it can't saved them so by Grace they are saved and on verse 10 it says:

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Saved sinners rc are new creations in Christ Jesus<-----[ah those wonderfu and refreshing words again]. They are God's workmanship. What are they created in Christ Jesus for? UNTO GOOD WORKS RC.

l .

to be born-again is the first step.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:5

reads like its the only step to me rc. and when your born again, changes will happen rc: You wont keep on practicing sin:


1Jo 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Then my Question to you IRONSIDE:
What is SIN?

Peace!

sin is lawlessness rc


1Jo 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.



Come to Christ rc....you need the salvation of the Savior rc. You wont find salvation in you or in someone else. If you can save yourself rc, Christ's death would only be optional. But its not option B rc. What He did on the cross is your only choice.....................IF you only trust in Him salvation will be yours. God is that good rc....


Yes, we are saved by WORK [His work on the cross] not by our works.


I prayed for you friend

[rcruman]

God made salvation available to all but effectual only to those who trust in Christ for salvation. He came the first time to give His life as a ransom. In the cross and His subsequent resurrection three days after, you can pretty much see that He accomplished the work of salvation.

Would you give the MEANING of TRUST in the BIBLE not the TRUST in dictionary?
because in the bible TRUST has a deep meaning that we should understand.
Its not by words but by actions.
Can you give me a verse that saying "Christ made our own salvation".

[color=blue]
Ah yes, He was fulfilling that prophecy all right my friend. But if you look closely at the context rc.....if you just move two verses down......he was talking about salvation [even in that texts you posted, reading it would pretty much intimate to you the idea of salvation right? I mean...just look at verse 6 and 7]:
Heb 10:10 by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Exactly, the prophecy tells about the things that Christ should do, even Christ want it not to happened but Christ submitted to God, to God's will.

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Matthew 26:39.

[color=blue]["Once for all"------never to be repeated again. Christ offered His body for the atonement of sins once for all.

Yes, og mao bitaw ingon ni Apostle Paul:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6

so ang tawo nga naluwas na nya mulikoy kay dili na siya puede luwason pagbalik ni Cristo kay kausa ra gilansang si Cristo og Kausa ra ta angay luwason og kausa ra ta angay bautismuhan.

[color=blue]
Rc, sin can damned you. That is a gimme. If you dont have any sin, you wont be condemned. Spiritual Salvation in the Bible is salvation from the penalty, power and presence of sin. And look at verse 6 rc...God not only made me alive together with Christ [i was dead to God remember because of my sin? He made me alive together with Christ. When Christ resurrected I resurrected in God's reckoning], He also made me sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

This is a give-and-take relationship, not all people resurrected in Christ or Crucified with Christ.
Are all types of sins can condemned us?

[color=blue][Saved sinners rc are new creations in Christ Jesus<-----[ah those wonderfu and refreshing words again]. They are God's workmanship. What are they created in Christ Jesus for? UNTO GOOD WORKS RC.

Yes unto good works, but is there any instance in the bible that a born-again or a Christian drew back or failed to continue?
What's the purpose of the Law of Christ if all we do is good works?
Let me ask you again, thus Christians committed sins?
by your understanding or implications Born-again/Christians works Good Works all the time because of Holy Spirit, so if they committed sins who is liable, humans or the Holy Spirit given to Christians?
And by the way what is the purpose or function of Holy Spirit to us humans?

[color=blue]

sin is lawlessness rc
1Jo 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
Come to Christ rc....you need the salvation of the Savior rc. You wont find salvation in you or in someone else. If you can save yourself rc, Christ's death would only be optional. But its not option B rc. What He did on the cross is your only choice.....................IF you only trust in Him salvation will be yours. God is that good rc....

So you mean if we come to Christ as you've explained will it shows that we "can't" commit sins? Or I mean we are not capable of committing sins? asa ni sa bible?

[color=blue]
Yes, we are saved by WORK [His work on the cross] not by our works.

So after the death of Christ in the cross we are sure saved?
SO no need to do good works?
How come Christ said this:

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:19-20

so in this verse Christ ordered the APostles to teach people to observe or do all things whatsoever he commanded.

a piece of advise, when you hear not by good works you should clarify what kind of good works, good works that man consider or good works that God consider.

I leave everything to GOd towards your understanding and even to people who believed in OSAS or by Grace and not by good works.

PEace!

[barcode 999]

@ ironside

amen bro!
i belive it takes a real man to admit hes wrong!
IDOL na tika bro! :mrgreen:

[Ironside]

Bai rc.......molain sa ko og topic .....peru related gihapon sa OSAS. I think the verse in 1 John 5:16 [ concerning the sin leading unto death] is not only vital but crucial sa atong discussion about OSAS.


I would like to submit a position about it and it is up to you. I can understand where you’re coming from rc. Actually, this issue has also been raging in our ranks for years. There are those that believe that salvation can be lost while there are others who believe that salvation is yours forever.



1Jo 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.


What is the death referred here? Is it physical death or spiritual-eternal death?


I would like to toss in my two cents worth rc. [you can take it or leave it….no problem my friend]. As I see it Rc, there is strong evidence that the death referred here is not a spiritual one but a physical one. In 1 John 3:14 it is stated:



1 Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.



One sign that one has truly trusted in Christ for salvation [and therefore have life in His name] is that he has love for his brethren. The verb “passed” here Rc in Greek [if you will allow me] is in the perfect tense.



Perfect tenses in Greek are actions that began in the past that was completed and its effects continue permanently. In other words, it denotes permanency. John was saying: “We know that we have permanently passed from death to life………..”



Obviously, the “death to life” here refers to spiritual death and spiritual life. I was dead to God then and alive to sin and now I am dead to sin and alive to God IN CHRIST JESUS.
And my spiritual life is safe and secure with Christ in God:


Col 3:3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.






God could chasten His erring children with physical death but this is not unto condemnation:


1Co 11:30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.


If self judgment were exercised, these physical disciplinary judgments [that included physical death] would not have arisen:


1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.


But we can rest and be assured that these judgments are not punitive and penal. All these have been exhausted in the death of Christ. These judgments are not from God to a criminal but from a Father to an erring son:



32 But when we [saved in Christ] are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.



This can be beautifully illustrated in God’s promise to David about his son Solomon [who was a type of Christ]. Solomon however, in God’s mercy was not chastened with physical death:




2Sa 7:12 "When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom.

13 "He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

14 "I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.

15 "But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you.





God commanded Jeremiah not to pray for Israel as a people, as a nation. His punishment to them as a nation, as a people [the sword, pestilence, banishment to Babylon etc.] will surely come. Individually of course they are accountable to God and must answer Him for every lawless deed they committed. But here we are talking about Israel as a nation, as a people:


Jer 14:11 Then the LORD said to me, "Do not pray for this people, for their good.


Jer 15:1 Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before Me, My mind would not be favorable toward this people. Cast them out of My sight, and let them go forth.



And yet after uttering these words, it was He who spoke words of hope to Israel as a nation, as a people:


Jer 23:5 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.

6 In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

7 "Therefore, behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "that they shall no longer say, 'As the LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,'

8 "but, 'As the LORD lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I had driven them.' And they shall dwell in their own land."



Jer 31:35 Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The LORD of hosts is His name):

36 "If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the LORD, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever."



Of course you are free to disagree with it my friend.

[circles122345]

@ ironside

amen bro!
i belive it takes a real man to admit hes wrong!
IDOL na tika bro! :mrgreen:

I Agree with you bro, usahay sakto ni rcruman sakto pero mawa man pod..

[Mr.Ho_chia]

I second the motion. To humble oneself is indeed a reflection of true character. Salute you sir Ironside.

[geoseph]

None of us created the universe therefore, the One who did (or does) has the final say for the salvation of each one of us.

Since, we can't be the Creator's equal (else, we be creator ourselves of the same caliber), we are totally dependent on Divine Revelation.

Every religion, one way or the other, believes to inherent some revealation (or a glimpse of the Truth). Therefore, each one has some prescription for us to follow, in light of their faith. Which one you believe in, is your personal choice.

However, why do we need to be saved in the first place? And saved from what? Depending on the answer, there we can proceed.

Let us take one answer: to be saved from sin. Then, what is sin? Let us branch once more to another answer: sin is disobedience from God. Therefore, to be saved from sin, or rather, to start to be saved from sin, we need only obey God. How do we obey God, that is, how do we know what he asks of us? This again, we are dependent on Divine Revealation. And since, it is our religion that represents or holds the copy of Divine Revealation for us, we follow it. Going back, what of the consequences of past sins? That is, even if we start to obey God and sin no more, are we still not saved, in this sense, of having committed sins before? Regarding this, it is only God's call if we be saved or not. It is for God alone to decide it. Hence, we invoke God's mercy for our salvation from past sins.

(Some consider our conscience as literally, the voice of God, and hence, is Divine Revealation.)

To answer the question, "What is the basis of your salvation?" That is, what I believe to be the basis of my salvation, it is God's Infinite Mercy and Love but, I have to do my part also, and it is to love God above all and others as myself. If one is true to this, the rest will naturally follow. Not easy though.

[rcruman]

What is the death referred here? Is it physical death or spiritual-eternal death?

of course its SPIRITUAL DEATH.
as mentioned by apostle Paul:

6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.
1 Timothy 5:6

and Christ mentioned about spiritual death or destruction:

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28


in 1 John 3:14 well it give you an answer that in 1 John 5:16 is a physical death?

read it again:
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

by your understing with your statement:

I would like to toss in my two cents worth rc. [you can take it or leave it….no problem my friend]. As I see it Rc, there is strong evidence that the death referred here is not a spiritual one but a physical one. In 1 John 3:14 it is stated:

1 Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.

are you sure about this, I will give you time to edit it my friend.
How come you believed that in 1 John 5:16 is referring to physical death and you supported it with 1 John 3:14. Do you mean that on this verse Christian has risen from physical death?
Can Christians abide in Physical Death?
bro just read again 1 Timothy 5:6 and on this verse Apostle Paul explained what is Death mentioned by the apostles of Christ particularly JOhn.

6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.
1 Timothy 5:6

Sins makes us dead spiritually but alive in physical, so in 1 John 3:14 "He who does not love his brother abides in death." not loving your brother is a sin. and if you just continue it on verse 15 it says that its not a physical death because it says:

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

the word or action "hate" is the sin that makes a Christian abided in death.
and abiding in sin is death.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:6-13

Peace!