Hello Deism

[Ivan James]

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I think I already answered this and I pointed to the uniqueness of the bible.

The bible might be unique but not necessarily the truth.

These are not acceptable to God that's why theses people, if they will not repent, will give an account on judgment day. There is no one who does good. That is also one of the unique teachings of the bible. All other religions teach that man can do good in and of himself. The bible teach that man cannot do good in and of himself, it must come from outside of man.

Because that's all we can do, to try to be good the best we can be. If choosing religion means to condemn people how bad they are. Putting fear in people's mind about a condemnation the bible only knows and how to escape that condemnation then I would rather be an atheist. I just hate thinking that I have to fear all my life because of Hell. That all my life, I have to deal with either going to heaven or hell. Thinking have I finally get the favor of god. If only God made it clear in the beginning to follow this truth and destroy all other truths then I would gladly follow. Maybe God doesn't really care about running his creations lives.

It's not pointless, that's how man is redeemed. That's the payment of his sins. The atonement, the appeasement of the wrath of God on man because of his sins. Why can't you accept it? Why can't you accept justice? How is it selfish and naive?

Yeah, it is unfair. there are other people out there who all their lives tried to be the best human and because they don't believe in christianity they go to hell? They go to hell because God didn't choose them. They go to hell because they fight for what they think was the truth (by which has never actually been cleared in the first place). This is very naive. We condemn each other because the bible say so. Now I don't want to stay like that. I just want to live in the present do the things I wanted to do and be good. Why would I fear hell, something that I don't even know it actually exist. Why would I condemn myself because of the bible?

The circumstance of Islam's expansion is different than that of the Christian expansion. While Islam spread through conquest, Christianity spread despite the persecution. In early days of Christianity being a Christian is a sure way to be killed or to have your property confiscated and become a prisoner. No man would join a group that's going to get him and his family killed or thrown into prison unless he can verify the testimony around the that group's claims. There were other movements in those days. After their founder died their followers dispersed and the movement disappeared. The opposite happened to Christianity.

I am not interested about how islam spread bro. I am interested about how they testify and experience the working of their god. The same applies to other belief. Even me, I don't believe in any religion but still blessed. I believe the universe provides and it does provide. What happened a long time ago was one of the biggest mistake of humanity. Giving religion greater power to force their teachings to everyone.

[Ivan James]

Let me put it in a Much simpler terms.

BIG BANG is a COSMOLOGICAL theory that needs Physical Experimentation to actually prove it.
Now, what do call when someone Accepts that Theory Based on some peoples accounts? some peoples findings? without actually doing any experiments?
isn't it accepting blindly?

If say to you ive been to SM yesterday and you believed it without verify if im actually there - isnt it blindly following what i say?

and do you really think there's no experimentation made bro? when do science abandon a theory? If it's stuck if it does not make sense and does not agree with other laws of physics. It's not accepting blindly, we do not make it absolute unless enough evidence is present. Big Bang theory is not absolute, actually it's stuck as of the moment.

I will believe that you're actually in SM if you give me pictures bro with the date and time with it. Or unless, I was there and saw you.

[luci_morningstar]

and do you really think there's no experimentation made bro? when do science abandon a theory? If it's stuck if it does not make sense and does not agree with other laws of physics. It's not accepting blindly, we do not make it absolute unless enough evidence is present. Big Bang theory is not absolute, actually it's stuck as of the moment.

Or course there are, but the Question is If you accept the result of Scientists experiment WITHOUT you doing your own Verification - Are you Blindly following THEM or Not?

I will believe that you're actually in SM if you give me pictures bro with the date and time with it. Or unless, I was there and saw you.

Yes correct, That's Your OWN verification of what i said - You have the picture that You Personally verified.
So if you accept the Theory of BIG BANG or Evolution, what Personal Verification did you do to say Big Bang or Evolution really did Exist?
You cant just say I Verified by READING because it doesnt count. Its a Physical phenomenon that needs Physical Experimentation to really observed.

[Ivan James]

Or course there are, but the Question is If you accept the result of Scientists experiment WITHOUT you doing your own Verification - Are you Blindly following THEM or Not?

I'm not bro. When it comes to theory as I've said. you wait till they are complete and becomes laws. Theories may take different directions not the same as why they are formulated for, and one thing, these theories are applied and have outcomes and have real time applications in both applied physics and engineering today. It's not blindly following since real time applications are there and you can use it.

Yes correct, That's Your OWN verification of what i said - You have the picture that You Personally verified.
So if you accept the Theory of BIG BANG or Evolution, what Personal Verification did you do to say Big Bang or Evolution really did Exist?
You cant just say I Verified by READING because it doesn't count. Its a Physical phenomenon that needs Physical Experimentation to really observed.

Of course it has to agree with the accepted different laws of physics like conservation of mass and energy, law of gravitation, Thermodynamics, electrostatic, laws of motion, relativity, probability, mathematics and quantum mechanics which to this point have proven to have real time applications in our technological advancements. Do you think engineering will exist without this governing laws.
Simple I accept the big bang because it agrees to the laws of physics which were proven to govern the universe.
I am not a fan of evolution.

[luci_morningstar]

Bing Bang theory is easily observable man, you only need a high powered telescope and you'll see galaxies move farther away from each other. Just like Germ Theory you only need a microscope to prove germs exist.

Are you serious?

The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation about how the universe began. At its simplest, it says the universe as we know it started with a small singularity, then inflated over the next 13.8 billion years to the cosmos that we know today.

A theory describing what happened billions of years ago can be observed by telescope? a theory how the universe begun and you say its observable? Wow

[luci_morningstar]

I'm not bro. When it comes to theory as I've said. you wait till they are complete and becomes laws. Theories may take different directions not the same as why they are formulated for, and one thing, these theories are applied and have outcomes and have real time applications in both applied physics and engineering today. It's not blindly following since real time applications are there and you can use it.

How come your Not blindly accepting the theory when do did not do any verification or experimentation? u just say Yes true because that's what u read.

I am not questioning what scientist did because They are the one doing the actual Physical Experiments.

what I am saying is If you accept what u read wihotu u verifying it, youre Blindly Accepting it.

Of course it has to agree with the accepted different laws of physics like conservation of mass and energy, law of gravitation, Thermodynamics, electrostatic, laws of motion, relativity, probability, mathematics and quantum mechanics which to this point have proven to have real time applications in our technological advancements. Do you think engineering will exist without this governing laws.
Simple I accept the big bang because it agrees to the laws of physics which were proven to govern the universe.
I am not a fan of evolution.

its not a question of if we agree or Not agree, its a question of ARE YOU BLINDLY FOLLOWING what u read.

If science say 1 of chracteristics of Salt is salty, then u taste salt - Then we can say you Verified it yourself.
But if you say I agree salt compose of Na CL, and u did Not actually know what Na is or Cl is and u did not do any experiment to prove that - it means you Blindly accept what is universally accepted.

[Ivan James]

How come your Not blindly accepting the theory when do did not do any verification or experimentation? u just say Yes true because that's what u read.

I am not questioning what scientist did because They are the one doing the actual Physical Experiments.

what I am saying is If you accept what u read wihotu u verifying it, youre Blindly Accepting it.




its not a question of if we agree or Not agree, its a question of ARE YOU BLINDLY FOLLOWING what u read.

If science say 1 of chracteristics of Salt is salty, then u taste salt - Then we can say you Verified it yourself.
But if you say I agree salt compose of Na CL, and u did Not actually know what Na is or Cl is and u did not do any experiment to prove that - it means you Blindly accept what is universally accepted.

Bro, I accept the laws of physics not because I just read it. So you want me to experiment on all of it? Bro why would I verify laws of physics that has been tested by time. Have been checked by great minds and have been used by you and me today. that I myself am using in my work. That been used to fly airplanes. and other things? Bro I am using the product of this laws of physics. Why does i need verification to believe they actually exist?

Bro, Sodium Chloride is Table salt. There are other kinds of salt. we have experimented on them and even log their characteristics.

[cartoner]

The bible might be unique but not necessarily the truth.

This is an Ad hominem statement.
I could just say the Bible is the word of God and Jesus is the way the truth and the life.
But I would admit the Bible is unique in its claims, principles, its composition(many authors), span of time of its composition, multiple witness and testimony of the same account, its remedial applicability to the woes of this world, I would also say historically accurate.

Because that's all we can do, to try to be good the best we can be. If choosing religion means to condemn people how bad they are. Putting fear in people's mind about a condemnation the bible only knows and how to escape that condemnation then I would rather be an atheist. I just hate thinking that I have to fear all my life because of Hell. That all my life, I have to deal with either going to heaven or hell. Thinking have I finally get the favor of god. If only God made it clear in the beginning to follow this truth and destroy all other truths then I would gladly follow. Maybe God doesn't really care about running his creations lives.

"Choosing the best we can be" that is one of the more accurate description you stated of the Bible. Christianity doesn't mean condemning people instead being genuinely concerned of the state of the ignorance darkened by the delusion you are living in and a lot more and deeper.
In fact one of the teachings of Christianity is to not to condemn other people using religion. As an example when Jesus confronted the Pharisees. Its mission is to proclaim the gospel and the end time message. To be a good example in deed, brotherly love, charity and character to be the "light of the world"(Matthew 5:14)
Christians are not to condemn but there will be a time that these people those who are true Christians will be persecuted.
Those who are lost people would prefer suffer hellfire and eternal death rather than enjoy heaven and spend time eternity with God, since it would be a dreaded torture for them to be in heaven, they could not survive the environment and life in heaven. While here on earth they do not spend their lifetime to know and understand the character of God and his word and his commandments expressed in the biblical principles and to get ready for his kingdom.

Maybe God doesn't really care about running his creations lives

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:20

Yeah, it is unfair. there are other people out there who all their lives tried to be the best human and because they don't believe in christianity they go to hell? They go to hell because God didn't choose them. They go to hell because they fight for what they think was the truth (by which has never actually been cleared in the first place). This is very naive. We condemn each other because the bible say so. Now I don't want to stay like that. I just want to live in the present do the things I wanted to do and be good. Why would I fear hell, something that I don't even know it actually exist. Why would I condemn myself because of the bible?

Human goodness is but filthy rags is what is taught in the bible. But although you tend to be right presently in the long run without the imparted power and righteousness in the faith of Christ our human goodness by its own power will fail and will be but a filthy rag. This is inherited to us by Adams propensity to sin, human nature is unable to withstand temptation, delusion and by the test of loyalty of his own power. For without the power and faith of Christ we are nothing.
God does not condemn by whim of a choice but by investigative judgement.
Everything will be open in the day of judgment all the things being done will be revealed in secret or public including those who we think are good people, their secret will be revealed and weighed in the balances. If you diligently seek and internalize the imparted righteousness of Christ you will have the righteousness of Christ in the day of Judgement in your own works, thoughts and actions.
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

I am not interested about how islam spread bro. I am interested about how they testify and experience the working of their god. The same applies to other belief. Even me, I don't believe in any religion but still blessed. I believe the universe provides and it does provide. What happened a long time ago was one of the biggest mistake of humanity. Giving religion greater power to force their teachings to everyone.

By their fruits you will know them. Islam was spread through conquest and war, Christianity by preaching and being a good example to humanity. You are blessed by the grace of God and his mercy not by the universe.
If you want testimony of Christians by the workings of their God there are a lot.
Stereotyping all religion is missing the point. Stereotyping religion is communism.
But rather it is between false and true religion. The true cause of Evil and the salvation and enlightenment of mankind.
God does not force himself to us, this is nicely illustrated in this verse:
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Rev 3:20

[NapoleonBlownapart]

The bible might be unique but not necessarily the truth.

If the bible is the only written word of God and it's unique then it's consistent. Consistency is a qualification for truth. If it's not consistent it must not be true.

Because that's all we can do, to try to be good the best we can be. If choosing religion means to condemn people how bad they are. Putting fear in people's mind about a condemnation the bible only knows and how to escape that condemnation then I would rather be an atheist. I just hate thinking that I have to fear all my life because of Hell. That all my life, I have to deal with either going to heaven or hell. Thinking have I finally get the favor of god.

I believe you are arguing from a standpoint where man is neutral to God and that's where the problem lies. Man is not neutral to God. He is in rebellion. Some expressed in an open way like atheism, drugs and money. Others in a more, "subtle" if you will, way in a form of religiosity where they worship another god. Man is not condemned because of his wrong decision, no, your taking sin so lightly. Man is condemned because he rebels against God, by sinning. Man just don't seek God but something or someone else so they created a god that is likable to them.

If only God made it clear in the beginning to follow this truth and destroy all other truths then I would gladly follow. Maybe God doesn't really care about running his creations lives.

He did make it clear. Pero matud pa bitaw sa parable "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead".

Yeah, it is unfair. there are other people out there who all their lives tried to be the best human and because they don't believe in christianity they go to hell?

To whose standard?

They go to hell because they fight for what they think was the truth (by which has never actually been cleared in the first place).

It is clear to them but they don't like it so they suppress it and instead follow their own devices.

We condemn each other because the bible say so. Now I don't want to stay like that. I just want to live in the present do the things I wanted to do and be good. Why would I fear hell, something that I don't even know it actually exist. Why would I condemn myself because of the bible?

We don't condemn we're not the judge. It is God who judges so it is God who condemns. If you feel condemned when you read the bible then that means you're guilty. We all are. Instead of suppressing it because we don't like it, our hope is to repent and believe.

I am not interested about how islam spread bro. I am interested about how they testify and experience the working of their god. The same applies to other belief. Even me, I don't believe in any religion but still blessed. I believe the universe provides and it does provide. What happened a long time ago was one of the biggest mistake of humanity. Giving religion greater power to force their teachings to everyone.

I brought Islam because I wanted to point out the difference between it and Christianity. Well, rain falls on the righteous and wicked. It doesn't mean God's not storing wrath to be poured on the unrighteous.

[Ivan James]

If the bible is the only written word of God and it's unique then it's consistent. Consistency is a qualification for truth. If it's not consistent it must not be true.

But after all the bible tells a history no one alive witnessed. Maybe we can try considering it a history book. One thing, the bible is so focused on humanity and earth as if the earth is center of the universe. We'll it's not. What if lives in other star systems are proven to be right? Are creatures in those planets included in your so called grace? your so called salvation? What if there exist another intelligent beings in the universe? Will the bible apply to them too when earth is the only focus of the bible?

I believe you are arguing from a standpoint where man is neutral to God and that's where the problem lies. Man is not neutral to God. He is in rebellion. Some expressed in an open way like atheism, drugs and money. Others in a more, "subtle" if you will, way in a form of religiosity where they worship another god. Man is not condemned because of his wrong decision, no, your taking sin so lightly. Man is condemned because he rebels against God, by sinning. Man just don't seek God but something or someone else so they created a god that is likable to them.

Because God allowed it. When did we start sinning? When was the first rebellion? Why are we even blamed for something we didn't do.

He did make it clear. Pero matud pa bitaw sa parable "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead".

He didn't make it clear. Why can't he just show himself up and rule the world. Why did he allow a system humanity build to destroy each other? Haven't you ask that.

To whose standard?

It is clear to them but they don't like it so they suppress it and instead follow their own devices.

We don't condemn we're not the judge. It is God who judges so it is God who condemns. If you feel condemned when you read the bible then that means you're guilty. We all are. Instead of suppressing it because we don't like it, our hope is to repent and believe.

By the moral standards of humanity. By doing good to others. It's true that even if you live as a good person your entire life. Doing good deeds, feeding the needy and etc. but you don't believe the bible or youre not a christian you're still going to hell. Am I not right? What if you're born a muslim and you believe the authority of the quran. You even want to die for it. You live your life the best person you can be. You didn't hurt people, you helped them, feed them. You are so firm in your belief as muslim. Now during the end of days, it was proven that christianity is the real truth, that means you're going to hell because you're a muslim. Now does that sound fair to you?

I brought Islam because I wanted to point out the difference between it and Christianity. Well, rain falls on the righteous and wicked. It doesn't mean God's not storing wrath to be poured on the unrighteous.

So you mean christians are closer to being righteous than those muslims, those atheist, Hindus, Jews, the agnostics, the deist?