pagutana is Born Again is religion?

[cartoner]

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kalingaw gyud bya sa mga religious nag lumba ug pataas sa ihi no wonder gubot kau ang kalibutan kay bisan same ug religion maglalis pa gyud kadto ra gyud usa diri ang mau kau .... si peebles.

have you heard about a good respectful discussion even in disagreement?
These kind of people brand other people stupid if it disagrees with them.
You might have agreed on an immature understanding of Christianity, I understand that you are not one yourself.

I had debated some christians and non christians about this topic and we never ended up with personal insults or insults to ones belief. Although some really ended up that way that would signal to be the end of the discussion for that particular person.

[cartoner]

same ra. sa word pa lang nimo disagreement. bisan unsaon ninyo sugar coat, nag lalis ra gihapon mo diri. pabilib sa inyong nahibal-an

We have an obligation to declare the truth.
aside form that.
I treat this to test my belief and to be more transparent.
I don't believe that biblical truth that was given to us should be hidden.

[geremarv]

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)

Question why most us we still keep the commandments except for this? Why most Christians keep them? because they are still binding for us, why must we not steal?, why must we not Murder?Commit adultery? its because the law is still binding. If were talking about the new testament what Christ was teaching was basically the same thing but he shed out new light on how to fulfill the law. To love God with all your strength and mind is to worship God only, do not worship idols and graven images, do not take Gods name in vain, to Remember his Sabbath the memorial of his Creation, To love our neighbor as ourselves is do not steal from your neighbor, do not covet, honor our father and mother ect..
So why left out the 4th commandment? here is the answer
Because the catholic changed the sabbath to Sunday
"On the venerable day of the sun let the magistrate and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however, persons engaged in agricultural work may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain growing or for vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. —Schaff’s History of the Christian Church, vol. III, chap. 75.

This was prophesized in Daniel that the anti-christ will change times and law and what is both a law and time? The Sabbath law.
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 7:25
We ought to obey God rather than the man (catholic church, man made laws that contradict God's law)

yes ur right the bible say so....7 days rest and keep it holy what is holy means sba dpat in that day whorship thy God for his goodness...and yes we do so.... maybe ur just confusing with saturday and sunday....dli q makiglalis nimo ana ky dli ta magdaog as long as f u think saturday mao ang seventh day so do it ayaw ug trabaho... coz we believe sunday is the seventh day so wla mi nakasala coz we rest and worship God in da seventh day....we make it holy.... kung saturday sad ka so wla sad na problema as long as u rest and worship God....ang problema if dat day gihimo ig outing shopping day mao na dako sala.....😊😊😊😊😊

[geremarv]

use kjv version not other version ayaw sunod anang book nahimo gawas sa bible ky mo sunod ka sa libro na hinimo dli ko motoo ana ky hinimo na sa tao ang nag dectar ana sa tao na maghimo libro gawas sa bible ang yawa para libugon ug maglalis ang mga kataohan....mao btaw na nahitabo sa katoliko they have der own na perting sayopa na wla sa bible against sa pulong sa Ginoo

[raztadog]

Relationship over religiosity; voluntarily over obligatory; Freedom over bondage; Love and forgiveness over hatred, bitterness and offense; Humility over pride; Generosity over greed; God's guidance rather than set of rules; Compassionate correction over judgment; The perfected work of Christ at the cross over man's own effort as a solution; God's Word over human wisdom and opinion; Above all else, Jesus is... No other name, not my/your religion's or church's name, only in Jesus' name whom I am being saved..

[cartoner]

yes ur right the bible say so....7 days rest and keep it holy what is holy means sba dpat in that day whorship thy God for his goodness...and yes we do so.... maybe ur just confusing with saturday and sunday....dli q makiglalis nimo ana ky dli ta magdaog as long as f u think saturday mao ang seventh day so do it ayaw ug trabaho... coz we believe sunday is the seventh day so wla mi nakasala coz we rest and worship God in da seventh day....we make it holy.... kung saturday sad ka so wla sad na problema as long as u rest and worship God....ang problema if dat day gihimo ig outing shopping day mao na dako sala.....����������

You are right bro on your observance of the Sabbath day.
But does the commandment say "keep any sabbath day Holy" or "Keep the sabbath day Holy."
But the Catholic did not change the 7th day or the weekly cycle, the sabbath is still the 7th day what they changed was the observance of the holy day from the 7th day sabbath to the 1st day Sunday.

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

“The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).

So do we observe the biblical Sabbath or the Catholic Sunday. Do we submit to the "Lord of the Sabbath" or to the Catholic Ecclesiastical authority?

Question has the 7th day changed or was the weekly cycle has changed?
You can observe modern day Israel, Judaism as their religion and tradition since ancient times from the time of Moses to present time have been keeping the same 7th day sabbath.
Another proof from US Naval Observatory that the weekly cycle has not changed:


"We have had occasion to investigate the results of the works of specialists in chronology and we have never found one of them that has ever had the slightest doubt about the continuity of the weekly cycle since long before the Christian era."

So there has been no change in the weekly cycle, the 7th day sabbath is still Saturday biblically.

We all know that satan obscures and if possible voids Gods law the Moral law. He wants us to steal, he wants us to murder, to blaspheme God, to worship our money(idolatry) to break the sabbath ect. He want us to sin or transgress the law of God, He is known to be "the man of lawlessness" in 2 Thessalonians 2 but what does God desired for us?
"For this is the love of God that we keep his commandments"
"If you love me Keep my commandments" because "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day."
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

I would love to settle and agree with you but I need to present this truths and evidence to you, its up to you if you accept this or not, then if not then its settled.

[cartoner]

Relationship over religiosity; voluntarily over obligatory; Freedom over bondage; Love and forgiveness over hatred, bitterness and offense; Humility over pride; Generosity over greed; God's guidance rather than set of rules; Compassionate correction over judgment; The perfected work of Christ at the cross over man's own effort as a solution; God's Word over human wisdom and opinion; Above all else, Jesus is... No other name, not my/your religion's or church's name, only in Jesus' name whom I am being saved..

What you are saying is basically the same with the Moral law to love God with your mind and with all your strength and to love thy neighbor as thyself.
We all agree that the 10 commandments are the foundation to Christianity, what if our belief in that foundation is shaky and faulty? Our foundation as a Christian would be shaky as well.
How do we expect to mature as a Christian if our foundation is shaky?
Disagreeing on the moral law would prevent us from the light that the bible has further to teach us, since there would be contradiction and conjectures that obscure our understanding of the bible. That's why new age Christianity cherry pick only certain books in the new testament almost totally ignoring the old testament because they could not understand the whole of the bible. They end up picking those that agree to their feelings and thoughts.
Yes we are not saved by the Moral law but by Grace, through Christ but We are neither saved if we are unrepentant of our sins which is the transgression of the law.
Claiming to be saved yet unrepentant is what we call cheap grace, and its not worth the blood of Christ which requires true repentance those that "Keep the commandments God and the testimony of Jesus".
Why include the Sabbath? notice that many non Christian faith adhere to the ten commandments except the 4th commandment the which is to remember the Sabbath, its because apart from the Moral law the 4th commandment shows who is the author who is the Law giver, which is the creator in Genesis who created our world in 6 days and rested on the seventh "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." the fourth commandment points us to the creator in Genesis.

We wouldn't want to be those self professed christians whom christ would declare "And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Its ok bro were just discussing if you don't agree me then that settles it. What im concerned about is to declare to you the truth and I cannot do anything if you don't like or reject it. So I respect your stand.

[raztadog]

What you are saying is basically the same with the Moral law to love God with your mind and with all your strength and to love thy neighbor as thyself.
We all agree that the 10 commandments are the foundation to Christianity, what if our belief in that foundation is shaky and faulty? Our foundation as a Christian would be shaky as well.
How do we expect to mature as a Christian if our foundation is shaky?
Disagreeing on the moral law would prevent us from the light that the bible has further to teach us, since there would be contradiction and conjectures that obscure our understanding of the bible. That's why new age Christianity cherry pick only certain books in the new testament almost totally ignoring the old testament because they could not understand the whole of the bible. They end up picking those that agree to their feelings and thoughts.
Yes we are not saved by the Moral law but by Grace, through Christ but We are neither saved if we are unrepentant of our sins which is the transgression of the law.
Claiming to be saved yet unrepentant is what we call cheap grace, and its not worth the blood of Christ which requires true repentance those that "Keep the commandments God and the testimony of Jesus".
Why include the Sabbath? notice that many non Christian faith adhere to the ten commandments except the 4th commandment the which is to remember the Sabbath, its because apart from the Moral law the 4th commandment shows who is the author who is the Law giver, which is the creator in Genesis who created our world in 6 days and rested on the seventh "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." the fourth commandment points us to the creator in Genesis.

We wouldn't want to be those self professed christians whom christ would declare "And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Its ok bro were just discussing if you don't agree me then that settles it. What im concerned about is to declare to you the truth and I cannot do anything if you don't like or reject it. So I respect your stand.

Well, i agree on the repentance jud coz you will never genuinely enjoy His saving grace without humbling yourself before the Lord and laying down everything at His feet. - apart from it, everything will be of lip service. I also agree that Obedience is a must, not an option for you to be called His disciple. (John 8:31 "So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples") With regards to His Laws? it actually gives us freedom..

[NapoleonBlownapart]

I agree, but we should keep the Moral Law.

The difference:

Mosaic Law:
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
Deut 31:26

Moral Law:
Inside the arc of the Covenant:
There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.
1 Kings 8:9

Mosaic Law was temporal or "a shadow of things to come" ceremonial and sacrificial laws because it was fulfilled by Christ on the cross and the heavenly sanctuary.

Moral law is eternal written on stone by the finger of God placed inside the arc of the covenant.

the 10 commandments is not the moral law though most of it are categorized in the moral law. The 4th is part of the ceremonial law because the ceremonial law is about rituals. Keeping the Sabbath is a ritual.

[PebblesandKisses]

Ok that would be great this should follow Christ principle of fullfilling the law.
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
Matthew 22
This is basically the summary of the ten commandments the 1st to the 4th commandment is to love God while the 5th to 10th is to love thy neighbor as yourself.

Talking about the 10 commandments you believe observing the law comes naturally when you are born again, does that include all the ten commandments or only nine of them?

I dont quite understand your question and your intention of asking it and where this conversation is leading. Coz if youre really curious yourself, do research or pray perhaps and spend time with God. Or if you want to be acknowledged as a walking bible or an all-knowing person, go for it.
I believe that observing the 2nd to the 10th commandment are a fruit and biproduct of loving and honoring God above all with all your strength, heart and mind which is the first commandment. Obedience to God is not by a christian/human's will and effort but by God through the Holy Spirit.
For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God. 20 My old self has been crucified with Christ.[a] It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die. -Galatians 2:19-31

The only way we can live for God is by dying to our own worldly selves and allowing Christ to live in us.

Now if you are interrogating my christianity and my knowledge about my faith, dont take it against me but I will practice my right to not conform.