Flour Daniel Cebu

[shryock]

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enough of your useless reply with no basis, lets get some good legal basis:

SECTION 3. Hours worked. — The following shall be considered as compensable hours workeda) All time during which an employee is required to be on duty or to be at the employer's premises or to be at a prescribed work place; and(b) All time during which an employee is suffered or permitted to work.cralaw

SECTION 4. Principles in determining hours worked. — The following general principles shall govern in determining whether the time spent by an employee is considered hours worked for purposes of this Rulea) All hours are hours worked which the employee is required to give his employer, regardless of whether or not such hours are spent in productive labor or involve physical or mental exertion.cralaw(b) An employee need not leave the premises of the work place in order that his rest period shall not be counted, it being enough that he stops working, may rest completely and may leave his work place, to go elsewhere, whether within or outside the premises of his work place.cralaw(c) If the work performed was necessary, or it benefited the employer, or the employee could not abandon his work at the end of his normal working hours because he had no replacement, all time spent for such work shall be considered as hours worked, if the work was with the knowledge of his employer or immediate supervisor.cralaw(d) The time during which an employee is inactive by reason of interruptions in his work beyond his control shall be considered working time either if the imminence of the resumption of work requires the employee's presence at the place of work or if the interval is too brief to be utilized effectively and gainfully in the employee's own interest.cralaw

Source OMNIBUS RULES
IMPLEMENTING THE LABOR CODE

OMNIBUS RULES TO IMPLEMENT THE LABOR CODE OF THE PHILIPPINES - CHAN ROBLES VIRTUAL LAW LIBRARY

"useless reply with no basis"
strong words. be careful.

your presented legal basis actually agrees with what i said.
See Section 4 (c), "All time spent for such work shall be considered as hours worked, if the work was with the knowledge of his employer or immediate supervisor"
again, keywords here are: if conditions are met.

Besides, those are general principles.
A private owned business can deviate from that slightly, but never illegally.
Like I said previously, the Labor Code will serve only as a template.
The rules and regulations stated on a members signed contract will still prevail.
After all, a contract is a legal document which binds both parties.

[djao99]

"useless reply with no basis"
strong words. be careful.

your presented legal basis actually agrees with what i said.
See Section 4 (c), "All time spent for such work shall be considered as hours worked, if the work was with the knowledge of his employer or immediate supervisor"
again, keywords here are: if conditions are met.

Besides, those are general principles.
A private owned business can deviate from that slightly, but never illegally.
Like I said previously, the Labor Code will serve only as a template.
The rules and regulations stated on a members signed contract will still prevail.
After all, a contract is a legal document which binds both parties.

so this arguement ends with a threat: strong words. Be careful?

[shryock]

so this arguement ends with a threat: strong words. Be careful?

That is far from a threat.
Why would we even give threats?

It is what it is. A reply.

[NeverEndingDrive]

That is far from a threat.
Why would we even give threats?

It is what it is. A reply.

Shryock, are you aware that the labor code overrides any contract signed? I've seen this happen first-hand. Have you? If not, ask your attorney. The labor code protects the employee for any unlawful stuffs may it be on a contract or not. We are all aware that employees never read the full context of a contract. The labor code protects that aspect of the employees.

[EdvardGreig]

Best Engineering company in Cebu? Sorry to burst your bubble but it ain't close. If your criteria of being the "best" engineering company is the "brand", then you're wrong. It's too early to say at this point. Give it sometime and it will reach that point probably.

To be considered the best, you need to have capabilities and the initiative to make a decision as an office. Most disciplines are too reliant to their home office counterparts or from the Manila office. In design (drawings and 3D modeling), I can say that "this Cebu" office is making its way to be considered "good". But engineering (Calculations, Datasheets, Requisitions and what-not)? Hell no!! I was once in this technical meeting with the home office and the only thing that my team can do is nod their head in agreement. I don't know if they understand what's being relayed to them or too confused to even make a single reply. To cut the story short, I fixed the problem myself and we delivered on time. I was able to get the "engineering" instruction from the home office. I even trained the department about this subject.

I'm not trying to brag or anything, I just want these "certain" people to get off their high horse and stop labeling themselves as the best engineering company. Before you say that, you need to experience and work with other companies to compare and not by self proclamation. Cheers!

[EdvardGreig]

To shed light with this overtimes issue, I'll provide my insight.

Client mostly pay the (winning) engineering and design contractor to the total man-hours stated in their bid for the scope.
Of course, most all the time, the lowest bidder gets the job, unless if there is a long term agreement between the client and the contractor.

Now here lies the problem;

A.) The estimates were not done properly and it ended a shortage of man-hours to do the actual job.
B.) Some people (group of people or maybe an office) are charging man-hours to the project with no real progress. Charging for the sake of keeping the paycheck!


Either A or B, the contractor is contractually obligated to finish the job (in the specified deadline or else the contractor will face penalty) with or without man-hours left. Without man-hours left, contractor will experience budget over-run. The worker's paycheck is totally dependent in his ability to charge hours within the project. Before budget runs-out (management alarm bells ringing!), the "Management" will force the employee to finish their deliverable ASAP!; even if its deemed impossible to finish the work in the specified time.

Now, it's normal for the employee to ask overtime right? The problem is Management will not approved the overtime because they don't want to squeeze the "already squeezed" budget. The Management will hammer the leads and with no choice, the lead will also do the hammering to his members. It's easy to say that "I will not work without overtime" right? It's in the law, why should I? Guess what, these people are doing the sacrifice (working without pay) because they don't want to lose their job. They have families to feed. Maybe and just maybe, by doing this sacrifice, these employees will be awarded (regularized). In turn, these "certain" people will use this as a bargaining chip to the employee. Sigh!!! Look what's happening now? They're firing left and right! Even regulars! For me, even if I get fired here, at least I'm rightfully compensated (with overtime pay)!

It all boils down to observation. Relationship between the company and employee should be a two way street, meaning both are benefiting from each other. If you notice that you're being short changed, then try to consider other options. Besides company are easy to sack people if they can no longer profit from them.

[St_Michael]

Best Engineering company in Cebu? Sorry to burst your bubble but it ain't close. If your criteria of being the "best" engineering company is the "brand", then you're wrong. It's too early to say at this point. Give it sometime and it will reach that point probably.

To be considered the best, you need to have capabilities and the initiative to make a decision as an office. Most disciplines are too reliant to their home office counterparts or from the Manila office. In design (drawings and 3D modeling), I can say that "this Cebu" office is making its way to be considered "good". But engineering (Calculations, Datasheets, Requisitions and what-not)? Hell no!! I was once in this technical meeting with the home office and the only thing that my team can do is nod their head in agreement. I don't know if they understand what's being relayed to them or too confused to even make a single reply. To cut the story short, I fixed the problem myself and we delivered on time. I was able to get the "engineering" instruction from the home office. I even trained the department about this subject.

I'm not trying to brag or anything, I just want these "certain" people to get off their high horse and stop labeling themselves as the best engineering company. Before you say that, you need to experience and work with other companies to compare and not by self proclamation. Cheers!

Unsa diay ang best bay?

[Scott Bernard]

Opinion lang nako...

If feeling ninyo nag violate ang company sa Labor Code, much better you go directly to DOLE and ask for their professional advice.

The lawyers at DOLE are so cunning, if the case is strong they can arrive for a settlement... and this could reach hundreds of thousands of pesoses...

[nodols3]

Masabtan raman pud ning uban mag rant diri kay sila man ang affected sa tinaktakay.

Ambot if hiring ba kaha ang Dash Engineering karon.

Common misconception bitaw ng ilang gi ingon nga OTty, and that is what the company is discouraging.
Mao nang if walay OT uli namo regardless if naa pamo tiwasonon. It can always be done tomorrow.

If naay nagwait ana sa pikas office, sultihi nalang daan nga dili nimo madeliver karon tomorrow nalang. Wala man silay mahimo ana kay wala may approved OT.

Kaso naa lang gyud problema.

Naa man uban members that will take it upon themselves unya mo extend para lang mahuman ang ialng deliverables.
This is a commendable act, however, this is misplaced.

There is something in us, that tells nga dapat dili ma disappoint ang atong counterpart, leads, managers and etc, nato. In that sense, mo render nalang tag extension, which in some cases mahug na nga out of line naka. Kay nag work man ka without approved Overtime.

Although this might be a valiant act viewed from the side of your counterpart, this however, puts a frown on your supervisors and your managers and the company in general.
Because although you satisfied your counterpart, naghatag na pud kag kahasol sa imong direct supervisors, managers and the company itself.

Dili man ma claim from Client (dili kakwarta ang company) sa company ang imong gi render nga progress kay wala may approved overtime, and now somebody has to pay or not pay for it. Good thing if applyan nag blanket OT for the week sa imong supervisors, kaso in some cases, the project also has limited resources (manhours), mao pud ng tanawon.

In one project that I've been, it was the top project management, that kept on reiterating that "NO approved OT, NO Overtime".
Here comes the perpetual issue of balance, between production, limited resources, and pay, and "feelings" (sorry for the lack of a better term) sa imong supervisor.

Ang member man gud mahadlok nga mapasama or mabutang sa bad side sa iyang lead, supervisor, etc.

Maong hala patay sa trabaho, extend, extend, para lang makaproduce.

However, tanawon pud nato ang ang inyong supervisor, naa pud na push coming from the top management to produce.

Balansi-balansi gyud ni, you as member can always ask your direct supervisor to pay for your slippages (working without approved OT).
In some cases ang supervisor / lead will do this, however, to avoid the complications, some leads will opt for "offsetting", which in anyway wala gyud na sa company rules, and here comes the all too common labor issues.

This is where it all goes haywire. OTTy - unapproved OT, Offsetting - unapproved time off from work or working out of company rules.

All of these could have been avoided kung ang Lead and the member followed the company rule of

"No Approved OT, NO OT". The heck with production.


Ang gifollow man gud sa Fluor is ang american way.

Downsize or grow.

Grow if naay daghan projects, downsize if wala nay project, this is to maintain profitability.

Unfortunately, companies are made to make money. What is the point of running a company if you were only going to lose money.
That's one cold fact.

Fluor choose to downsize rather than closing shop. Surely, there may be bad managers in Fluor Cebu, the same with other companies, and there are plenty of good managers too, that is also true with other companies. Should a company have all good managers then that probably is a perfect company, which in the real world is non-existent.

Did you know that one of Fluor's major competitor has closed down 30 of it's offices, just to keep afloat.

Fluor could have chosen that side of the spectrum, but it chooses to wave out this down turn.


To the company, redundancy, retrenchment, downsizing are means to keep afloat, para maka survive ang company.

To the employee, income is supreme.

Maong masabtan ra gyud kung mag yawyaw mag rant ang employee.. Bisan kinsa man siguro... Loss of income is troublesome and causes unnecessary stress and in some depression.

Kaso, the fact that everyone in the Oil and Gas industry is suffering from this down turn could not be denied.
Thousands are being laid off in other countries, even Saudi wasn't spared.

I can also remember sa una sa Dash nga wala mang dawat ug employee kay wala pud lage work. Mangatulog nalang ang mga members.

Times like these puts jitters to everyone.

Ang wala ra apektohi kadto raman tingaleng nag negosyo ug real estate.


Maong magnegosyo nata.

[shryock]

Shryock, are you aware that the labor code overrides any contract signed? I've seen this happen first-hand. Have you? If not, ask your attorney. The labor code protects the employee for any unlawful stuffs may it be on a contract or not. We are all aware that employees never read the full context of a contract. The labor code protects that aspect of the employees.

My understanding is that the contract cannot directly contradict the existing laws.
The law trumps any signed contract and contracts must be in accordance with the applicable local laws.
There are contracts however that can remove the law's coverage on the person or the situation by how the contract defines these variables.

A contract, to some extent, can be formulated to act as a "waiver".
Thus no legal liabilities to the entity that serves it.

And to answer your question, no I have not seen this happen personally.
Just on the radio and news.
Pero masabtan ra man.