Martial Law - A Dark Chapter?

[shearts]

i'm a firm believer that martial law was exaggerated to the point of demonizing former president Marcos.

and what do the people at that time say about martial law?

Pinoys Interviewed During Martial Law

last night whilst channel surfing, i saw a documentary in ABC5. it was the NPA leader Sison talking about martial law. he said & i quote, "Ferdinand Marcos was the mastermind of the bombing of Plaza Miranda."

my reaction was "that's bullsh*t!" apparently, i wasn't the only one who thought so,
Plaza Miranda Bombing


PS: The thread name should have been updated to "Martial Law - A Distorted History"

[Theko]

Sir you don't have to read the news to say how bad a dictator Marcos was. All you have to do is look at the raw data. Information can be manipulated by the media, but raw data is quite difficult to skew with the whole world watching.

[ppap2.0]

Please close nlng mods. SOLD nani, Thanks Istorya!

[shearts]

[MENTION=58980]Theko[/MENTION],

i may have to disagree with you on that sir. anything can be manipulated. history books, raw data, anything. the problem that i see here is that most Pinoys just believe what they are being taught. not knowing that what they are taught may very well be distorted facts to favor someone, in this case ang Aquino family & their allies.

i see a some people adamantly believing nga dictator jud is Marcos, how come there are now evidence saying otherwise? they say pila daw ka billions ang gikawat ni Marcos, to be unbiased about it, do you really think those who took over after Marcos did not exaggerate or at the very least, fabricate lies just to demonize him?

my parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents from both sides of the family who have lived during the martial law days all said the same thing as those people who are on the video on the link i posted(BTW i have the impression you were lazy enough not to click & watch through it), the country saw more peace, albeit the really strict curfew rules.

ang gubot2x, tua ra sa Manila. they believe as i do nga yes naay mga victims sa martial law but they are NOT as much as what we are led to believe, labi na halata jud kaayo unsa ka-biased ang mga media outlets nato.

anyways, instead of looking stupid, marching in the streets saying bad things against the Marcos family, why don't those who are protesting ask the 2 men who have played vital roles during the martial law days?

why don't those people ask Enrile & Ramos? there have already been many things said against Ramos indicating that Ramos was the real mastermind of torture & countless human rights violations. why don't we ask any of them?

one more reason why i think those protesting look stupid is because they were not on the streets protesting against the obvious corruption of the Yolanda funds.

they were not there to protest against the massacre of SAF44.

they were not there when a lot of farmers & their families were massacred in hacienda luisita, and now they're all suddenly very active against Marcos?

like i said, it only makes them look absolutely stupid protesting against Marcos when there were so many obvious misdeeds from abnoy & his administration and those protesters were nowhere to be seen or heard.

another question to those who are so adamant about Marcos being buried in LNMB, why didn't the 2 Aquinos who became president no less, did not do anything to stop Marcos from being buried in the LNMB? they had all the power to do it.

why didn't those 2 Aquino presidents who kept on strongly implying that Marcos was responsible for the death of Ninoy, even had proper investigations as to who killed him?

if that's not bullsh*t to you then i don't know what is.

Cory basically did not care who killed her husband. Abnoy, staying true to his nickname did not give a rat's fart bringing justice for the death of his own father.

now why does that look familiar these days.. oh i don't know, we better ask Leni about it.

[Theko]

[MENTION=58980]Theko[/MENTION],

i may have to disagree with you on that sir. anything can be manipulated. history books, raw data, anything. the problem that i see here is that most Pinoys just believe what they are being taught. not knowing that what they are taught may very well be distorted facts to favor someone, in this case ang Aquino family & their allies.

i see a some people adamantly believing nga dictator jud is Marcos, how come there are now evidence saying otherwise? they say pila daw ka billions ang gikawat ni Marcos, to be unbiased about it, do you really think those who took over after Marcos did not exaggerate or at the very least, fabricate lies just to demonize him?

my parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents from both sides of the family who have lived during the martial law days all said the same thing as those people who are on the video on the link i posted(BTW i have the impression you were lazy enough not to click & watch through it), the country saw more peace, albeit the really strict curfew rules.

ang gubot2x, tua ra sa Manila. they believe as i do nga yes naay mga victims sa martial law but they are NOT as much as what we are led to believe, labi na halata jud kaayo unsa ka-biased ang mga media outlets nato.

anyways, instead of looking stupid, marching in the streets saying bad things against the Marcos family, why don't those who are protesting ask the 2 men who have played vital roles during the martial law days?

why don't those people ask Enrile & Ramos? there have already been many things said against Ramos indicating that Ramos was the real mastermind of torture & countless human rights violations. why don't we ask any of them?

one more reason why i think those protesting look stupid is because they were not on the streets protesting against the obvious corruption of the Yolanda funds.

they were not there to protest against the massacre of SAF44.

they were not there when a lot of farmers & their families were massacred in hacienda luisita, and now they're all suddenly very active against Marcos?

like i said, it only makes them look absolutely stupid protesting against Marcos when there were so many obvious misdeeds from abnoy & his administration and those protesters were nowhere to be seen or heard.

another question to those who are so adamant about Marcos being buried in LNMB, why didn't the 2 Aquinos who became president no less, did not do anything to stop Marcos from being buried in the LNMB? they had all the power to do it.

why didn't those 2 Aquino presidents who kept on strongly implying that Marcos was responsible for the death of Ninoy, even had proper investigations as to who killed him?

if that's not bullsh*t to you then i don't know what is.

Cory basically did not care who killed her husband. Abnoy, staying true to his nickname did not give a rat's fart bringing justice for the death of his own father.

now why does that look familiar these days.. oh i don't know, we better ask Leni about it.

History books and raw data are two different things. It was raw data used against the Marcoses by foreign courts convicting them. Please note na ang quantum of evidence used by these courts is of a higher degree than just preponderance of evidence. Tanan data used against them were verified again and again by experts before coming to the conclusion of GUILTY-that there was in fact the looting of billions and that there was in fact a blatant violation of human rights.

Your video doesnt really say much, because I bet if you asked the members of the Aryan race during Hitler's reign I feel they would be saying the same thing, na they had the time of their lives during the Holocaust.

Also, those other personalities you mentioned-Ramos, Enrile, and the Aquinos, their abuses and ineptitude are besides the point. Yes you can assume they were/are evil, but that doesnt preclude Marcos from being evil as well.

Let me ask you this: Why do you view this as a Marcos vs. Enrile/Ramos vs. Aquinos thing? Why not view it as a Filipinos vs. all them? You can be mad at ALL of them you know, you dont have to favor any one of them.

[shearts]

1. History books and raw data are two different things. It was raw data used against the Marcoses by foreign courts convicting them. Please note na ang quantum of evidence used by these courts is of a higher degree than just preponderance of evidence. Tanan data used against them were verified again and again by experts before coming to the conclusion of GUILTY-that there was in fact the looting of billions and that there was in fact a blatant violation of human rights.

2.Let me ask you this: Why do you view this as a Marcos vs. Enrile/Ramos vs. Aquinos thing? Why not view it as a Filipinos vs. all them? You can be mad at ALL of them you know, you dont have to favor any one of them.

1. au contraire, in the case of our country, history & raw data are essentially the same. BTW, which international court convicted them for stealing these alleged billions?

Marcos Cleared of Corruption Case

Imelda Marcos acquitted in graft case filed 13 years ago

From the archive, 3 July 1990: Tears and cheers as Imelda cleared

Marcos Is Cleared of All Charges In Racketeering and Fraud Case

do i need to add more sources?

i'm not saying they did not steal money. they may have, but i believe it is not as much as what they are saying. they just want to demonize Marcos because it was so hard for them to overthrow him.

2. that is precisely my point, it is the Filipinos against them. well, more on the Aquinos anyway. people power 1 for me was bullsh*t. why? there were only over 2 million who attended people power 1. the population of the Philippines in 1986 was almost 56 million. i did the math, & you can too. that only equates to roughly 5% of the population, and what happened? they changed the constitution & it was the beginning of the end for the Philippines.

5% is a ridiculously low number of people & the phase of the country changed just because of that?

my point, the blame why our country can never ever progress is because of the arrogance & greediness of the Aquinos & their allies.

well maybe aside from stupid Filipino culture like crab mentality, laziness & lack of critical thinking, etc.

they changed the country's history to make them look like saints while Marcos is so demonized that a lot of Pinoys have a hard time accepting this outright treachery & insolent manipulation of our country's history.

[Scott Bernard]

I don't care what every filipino experienced during the martial law days...

Basta sa akong immediate family, things were okay.
1. My parents were government employees.
2. My uncle-grandpa was a general of the PA
3. My uncle was a junior officer of the PA

Wala manto sila nag rally2x sa una gud.

Then after the EDSA revolution, they were still in the government. So everything was still okay.

[Theko]

1. au contraire, in the case of our country, history & raw data are essentially the same. BTW, which international court convicted them for stealing these alleged billions?

Marcos Cleared of Corruption Case

Imelda Marcos acquitted in graft case filed 13 years ago

From the archive, 3 July 1990: Tears and cheers as Imelda cleared

Marcos Is Cleared of All Charges In Racketeering and Fraud Case

do i need to add more sources?

i'm not saying they did not steal money. they may have, but i believe it is not as much as what they are saying. they just want to demonize Marcos because it was so hard for them to overthrow him.

2. that is precisely my point, it is the Filipinos against them. well, more on the Aquinos anyway. people power 1 for me was bullsh*t. why? there were only over 2 million who attended people power 1. the population of the Philippines in 1986 was almost 56 million. i did the math, & you can too. that only equates to roughly 5% of the population, and what happened? they changed the constitution & it was the beginning of the end for the Philippines.

5% is a ridiculously low number of people & the phase of the country changed just because of that?

my point, the blame why our country can never ever progress is because of the arrogance & greediness of the Aquinos & their allies.

well maybe aside from stupid Filipino culture like crab mentality, laziness & lack of critical thinking, etc.

they changed the country's history to make them look like saints while Marcos is so demonized that a lot of Pinoys have a hard time accepting this outright treachery & insolent manipulation of our country's history.

1. Two of your links are just duplicates of each other. Which countries?

Here are links:

MARCOS CONVICTED OF GRAFT IN MANILA - NYTimes.com (I checked, this is different from your 1993 link)
Marcoses lose US appeal | INQUIRER.net
Singapore court awards $23M in Marcos money to PNB | Money | GMA News Online

Summary sa uban:
StAR - Stolen Asset Recovery Initiative - Corruption Cases - Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos (Switzerland)

2. Again sir, the data is there. Look at the GDP, look at the number of human rights' abuses, look at the billions ($) stolen and form your own opinion. Then do not look at the Aquinos as saints, I hate their guts too, but do not try to deny that the abuses actually happened and that the abuses in our context was caused mainly by Marcos. I think you are seeing things as mutually exclusive, na Aquino vs. Marcos. Dili mana in.ana, you can be against the BOTH of them.

[shearts]

1. ok, let's just say nga convicted jud sila, did any of them go to jail for such conviction? i don't recall any of them going to jail if ever they were really convicted. stealing billions of dollars is not exactly a minor criminal offense.

so if none of them went to jail & what you said is true nga convicted sila, are you saying inutil ang international court?

2. the way i see things is, it's the Filipinos(well most of us Pinoys anyway) against LP. what is being sensationalized now in our country's biased presstitutes are mostly Marcos dictator this, Marcos not a hero, etc.

so how none of these presstitutes or those stupid rallyists are highlighting the still unresolved cases of Mendiola massacre, hacienda luisita massacre, obvious corruption of billions of dollars of Yolanda funds?

the way i see a lot of people reacting or how they look at Marcos like he was the worst thing that happened to our country. i disagree, the worst thing that happened to our country is the existence of everyone & anyone that has anything to do with the bast*rds & b*tches in LP.

[Theko]

1. ok, let's just say nga convicted jud sila, did any of them go to jail for such conviction? i don't recall any of them going to jail if ever they were really convicted. stealing billions of dollars is not exactly a minor criminal offense.

so if none of them went to jail & what you said is true nga convicted sila, are you saying inutil ang international court?

2. the way i see things is, it's the Filipinos(well most of us Pinoys anyway) against LP. what is being sensationalized now in our country's biased presstitutes are mostly Marcos dictator this, Marcos not a hero, etc.

so how none of these presstitutes or those stupid rallyists are highlighting the still unresolved cases of Mendiola massacre, hacienda luisita massacre, obvious corruption of billions of dollars of Yolanda funds?

the way i see a lot of people reacting or how they look at Marcos like he was the worst thing that happened to our country. i disagree, the worst thing that happened to our country is the existence of everyone & anyone that has anything to do with the bast*rds & b*tches in LP.

1. Those aren't international courts by the way. Also, wala'y na.priso kay patay na ang dapat prisuhon. Kay a crime is a PERSONAL offense against the state, dili na ma inherit. Wait, even with all the links kay di gihapon ka mutuo na convicted sila? Naa na ang conviction di gihapon ka mutuo na guilty sila?

Kay if dili ka mutuo gihapon, wala'y sense na magpadayun pa ni. hehe. Also, did you read ANY of the cases na nakadaog ang Marcoses and not just news articles? Kay majority sa cases nila nakadaog sila through technicalities..

2. Sir kanang imo reklamo na walay nag rally sa mga massacre ug sa yolanda funds, naa man ang nag rally against ana.

SAF 44 widow joins protest rally in Cebu, calls on Aquino to resign | Inquirer News
Thousands of Yolanda survivors stage protest rally | Region, The Freeman Sections, The Freeman | philstar.com

Ma highlight lang jud na si Marcos ang pinaka evil kay sa iyang reign nag start na noticeable na ang downfall sa Philippines. <- This by the way is backed by FACTS.