Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

[tsunade]

---

As I mentioned works are totally irrelevant.
Its not about what I do and what you do that gives us merit or what not.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

Believeth in him it is a state of mind, a perspective, and outlook of life our belief in Jesus Christ that produces abundant good works. You misunderstood the biblical principles that doing good works as a means to salvation.
It is more than good works it is a state of mind, its a perspective it is our faith and belief in Christ by these goods works overflows.

Do not look at what I do or make my works as the standard look at the Bible you will find the answer.
If I do not follow the Bible then correct me so I can reflect on my slackness.

Mathew 19:16-30
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374).
"Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God’" (CCC 2114).
The Church absolutely recognizes and condemns the sin of idolatry. What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.

Do you think WE (Catholics) worshiping a carved Stone/Wood/Metal/Gold? seriously? do you think I worship Jose Rizal because i offer flowers to his statue? comm'on Anti-Catholics try harder.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

A friendly theist didn't answer my question directly. ��

Why settle with hypothetical scenario when we have actual situations?

[Kenshiro]

Bai ikaw ra gyud ga pa libog sa imong kaugalingon. simple ra kaayo ang pangutana imo lng gyud gipakutaw imong utok. maka hunahuna man sab ta nga nasobrahan ra ug dagan imong utok w/c is delikado na.

asa man diay ka nag base sa imong doktrina di ba sa bible? so akong pangutana and its my fifth time to ask you this question.

...Apart from the bible do you have any other basis to your claim that salvation is by faith?

mao ra gyud na, yes or no and then support your answer.

Lets not focus on personal attacks or below the belt talks but focus on the subject at hand I know that is your strategy but that doesn't help your ignorance.

So if you mean faith apart from doctrines? of course no our faith is produced by doctrines. It is this faith of Jesus Christ the faith that is taught by biblical doctrines. Apart from it it would be non biblical doctrine or another religion.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 4:12

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 4:12

This answer is by faith through grace but its through biblical doctrine that you can reach this kind of faith which produces good works.

[Kenshiro]

Unsa bai? nagka anam naman ka katag imong tubag.

naa lagi kay habit bai nga ang simple nga topic imong e complicate hehe observation ra na nako ha.


kung ang imong stand is salvation by faith alone ... ang kanang Ephesians bai nga "by grace through faith" conflict na sa James nga " You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."

klaro man kaayo ang gisulti sa James, di maka lusot imong explanation kay masango ka sa James.

If you read further

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-9

The kind of Good works produced by faith.

[Kenshiro]

The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374).
"Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God’" (CCC 2114).
The Church absolutely recognizes and condemns the sin of idolatry. What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.

Do you think WE (Catholics) worshiping a carved Stone/Wood/Metal/Gold? seriously? do you think I worship Jose Rizal because i offer flowers to his statue? comm'on Anti-Catholics try harder.

You are talking about the 1st commandment. Don't confuse yourself of the second commandment regarding graven images.
1st commandment deals with idolatry while the 2nd specifically deals with graven images.

1st commandent-
I am the Lord thy God...Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

2nd
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exodus 20:4

Interestingly the catholic bible have removed this verse so they would be able to continue their pagan practice of worshiping of the dead saints and images. Tradition over of the word of God.

For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men
Mark 7:8

[porbidaman]

Why settle with hypothetical scenario when we have actual situations?

Why don't you answer my question in a straightforward manner, you're really good in playing with words.

[tsunade]

You are talking about the 1st commandment. Don't confuse yourself of the second commandment regarding graven images.

Confuse? me? IDTS,
ok lets go to Exodus 20 and lets see if we catholics deleted or change the 10 commandments according to your translation of Exodus 20.

2

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3

Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

4

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

8

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

13 Thou shalt not kill. 1
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Commandment #
#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7
#8
#9
#10

Jewish
#1) 2 (commandment to believe)
#2) 3, 4, 5, 6
#3) 7
#4) 8, 9,*10, 11
#5) 12
#6) 13
#7) 14
#8.) 15
#9) 16
#10) 17

Latin Catholic, Lutheran
#1) 3, 4, 5, 6
#2) 7
#3) 8, 9,*10, 11
#4) 12
#5) 13
#6) 14
#7) 15
#8.) 16
#9) 17a (commandment against lust)
#10)17b (commandment against greed)

Eastern Catholic, Orthodox, Most Protestant
#1) 3
#2) 4, 5, 6
#3) 7
#4) 8, 9,*10, 11
#5) 12
#6) 13
#7) 14
#8.) 15
#9) 16
#10) 17

other reference:

Protestant
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that takes his name in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God gives thee.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.
Jewish
I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work. But the seventh day is the Sabbath in honor of the Lord thy God; on it thou shalt not do any work, neither thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Honor thy father and thy mother; in order that thy days may be prolonged upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

Catholic
I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
Honor thy father and thy mother.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.

so with the verse above do you believe we & you protestant deleted Exodus20:2?
seriously you failed to realized that it was grouped, please dont confuse yourself bro.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Why don't you answer my question in a straightforward manner, you're really good in playing with words.

Yes, even though my parents were Christians, I was not born a Christian. I was converted. What if they're Muslims? I would still be converted to Christianity.

[Kenshiro]

Catholic
I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
Honor thy father and thy mother.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.

And where is the commandment regarding graven images? commandment #2?
answer: they have removed the 2nd commandment gi shortcut to commandment #3 taking the lord in vain.
Sneaky.

https://www.jesus-is-lord.com/tencomma.htm

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 7:25

[GreyGargoyle]