The EARLY CHRISTIAN'S ZEAL and CONVICTION

[SioDenz]

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The history of the Catholic Church begins with the teachings of Jesus Christ, who lived and preached in the 1st century AD in the province of Judea of the Roman Empire. The contemporary Catholic Church says that it is the continuation of the early Christian community established by Jesus.[1] Its bishops are the successors to the Apostles of Jesus, and the Bishop of Rome, also known as the Pope, is the sole successor to Saint Peter,[2] who was appointed by Jesus Christ to be the head of the church in the New Testament who ministered in Rome.[3][4] By the end of the 2nd century, bishops began congregating in regional synods to resolve doctrinal and policy issues.[5] By the 3rd century, the bishop of Rome began to act as a court of appeals for problems that other bishops could not resolve.[6]

Christianity spread throughout the early Roman Empire, despite persecutions due to conflicts with the pagan state religion. In 313, the struggles of the Early Church were lessened by the legalisation of Christianity by the Emperor Constantine I. In 380, under Emperor Theodosius I, Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire by the decree of the Emperor, which would persist until the fall of the Western Empire, and later, with the Eastern Roman Empire, until the Fall of Constantinople. During this time (the period of the Seven Ecumenical Councils) there were considered five primary sees (jurisdictions within the Catholic Church) according to Eusebius: Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria, known as the Pentarchy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...atholic_Church

You did Not answer my question.

RC people claim JESUS is the one Formed the ROMAN catholic Religion..

So my question is, When the Christians were persecuted and Constantine did Not embrace the Christians yet. Is the Catholic Religion already Establish?

IF yes, HOW can a ROMAN Catholic Religion already Formed or establish on that time when the Christians WHO where the followers of Christ were Still PERSECUTED? How can they name their Religion "Roman" when they are the one Persecuting them.


If NO, so the RC religion was only Formed ONLY when or After the time Constantine was converted to Christianity?

[<SMILE>]

You did Not answer my question.

RC people claim JESUS is the one Formed the ROMAN catholic Religion..

So my question is, When the Christians were persecuted and Constantine did Not embrace the Christians yet. Is the Catholic Religion already Establish?

IF yes, HOW can a ROMAN Catholic Religion already Formed or establish on that time when the Christians WHO where the followers of Christ were Still PERSECUTED? How can they name their Religion "Roman" when they are the one Persecuting them.


If NO, so the RC religion was only Formed ONLY when or After the time Constantine was converted to Christianity?

They are the same flock sio,
no need to libog2x that.
Sakay na lang kay gikan ra ba pud mo diha.

[Tetrad]

They are the same flock sio,
no need to libog2x that.
Sakay na lang kay gikan ra ba pud mo diha.

actually catholic (universal) christianity started long before the time of Constantine. This is different from the Roman Catholics that we know today. This protestantism issue na involved kay ang church that was in Rome. Daghan naman churches na established ato nga time like sa Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and other parts sa Asia Minor. Those who protested the Roman Catholic church were priests, professors, church leaders nga ni go against sa unbiblical teachings of Rome.

So it is considered nga dili tanan christian believers gikan ra sa church sa Rome.

[<SMILE>]

actually catholic (universal) christianity started long before the time of Constantine. This is different from the Roman Catholics that we know today. This protestantism issue na involved kay ang church that was in Rome. Daghan naman churches na established ato nga time like sa Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and other parts sa Asia Minor. Those who protested the Roman Catholic church were priests, professors, church leaders nga ni go against sa unbiblical teachings of Rome.

So it is considered nga dili tanan christian believers gikan ra sa church sa Rome.

Who are the persecuted Christians.

Clement of Alexandria states that "Peter had preached the Word publicly at Rome. (A.D. 190)"[67]

Lactantius, in his book called Of the Manner in Which the Persecutors Died, written around 318, noted that “And while Nero reigned, the Apostle Peter came to Rome, and, through the power of God committed unto him, wrought certain miracles, and, by turning many to the true religion, built up a faithful and stedfast temple unto the Lord.”[68]
The Catholic Church speaks of the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, as the successor of Saint Peter. This is often interpreted to imply that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome. However, it is also said that the institution of the papacy is not dependent on the idea that Peter was Bishop of Rome or even on his ever having been in Rome.[69] While accepting that Peter came to Rome and was martyred there, scholars find no historical evidence that he held episcopal office there.

and then what Emperor Constantine did.

In the early 4th century, the Emperor Constantine I decided to honour Peter with a large basilica.[94][95] Because the precise location of Peter's burial was so firmly fixed in the belief of the Christians of Rome, the church to house the basilica had to be erected on a site that was not convenient to construction. The slope of the Vatican Hill had to be excavated, even though the church could much more easily have been built on level ground only slightly to the south. There were also moral and legal issues, such as demolishing a cemetery to make room for the building. The focal point of the Basilica, both in its original form and in its later complete reconstruction, is the altar located over what is said to be the point of Peter's burial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter

Dali ra pag-himo ug congregation,
pero usa ra gyuy tinuod, sad to say fake na ang uban, buot2x ra ug himo,
without the sanction of Jesus Christ.

[SioDenz]

They are the same flock sio,
no need to libog2x that.
Sakay na lang kay gikan ra ba pud mo diha.

So its not really JESUS personally formed the Roman Catholic Religion - BUT you can trace its roots to Jesus. Just like the rest of Christian religions today. Its just that RC religion is CLOSER from the source than the newer ones

[Tetrad]

Who are the persecuted Christians.

not just the christians in rome but all the christians everywhere nga nakatag sa Roman Empire.

see this video bro, youll be amazed giunsa nila pagtago2 from the persecution especially the cappadocians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter

Dali ra pag-himo ug congregation,
pero usa ra gyuy tinuod, sad to say fake na ang uban, buot2x ra ug himo,
without the sanction of Jesus Christ.

you know bro, dako kayo nang lalisonon ang claims sa RC nga apostolic succession and only Peter was given authority by Jesus Christ to rule the churches!

If we read through the whole context, its not only Peter that Jesus was talking to but the disciples! also kung imong tan-awn on verse 23, Jesus even call Peter after he said...."thou art Peter..." nga Get thee behind me Satan!

Now, if Peter was the ROCK as what RC claim in verse 18, then why Peter denied the Lord three times during his trial?

Matthew 16
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

[Brownman_politiks]

not just the christians in rome but all the christians everywhere nga nakatag sa Roman Empire.

see this video bro, youll be amazed giunsa nila pagtago2 from the persecution especially the cappadocians.

you know bro, dako kayo nang lalisonon ang claims sa RC nga apostolic succession and only Peter was given authority by Jesus Christ to rule the churches!

If we read through the whole context, its not only Peter that Jesus was talking to but the disciples! also kung imong tan-awn on verse 23, Jesus even call Peter after he said...."thou art Peter..." nga Get thee behind me Satan!

Now, if Peter was the ROCK as what RC claim in verse 18, then why Peter denied the Lord three times during his trial?

Matthew 16
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

intawn ka elementary jud mo interpret ug scriptures haha.


unya wa nimo apila ang scene nga diin nagtapok silang Peter sa may dagat ug na ngaon sila ug gi pangutana si Peter, Peter do u love me? , katulo gipangutana si Peter ato ha. LOL, unya ang tubag are: feed my lambs, take care of my sheeps, Feed my sheeps.

kana nga verse osa na sa ponto nga gitagaan og espesyal nga awtoridad si Pedro over sa sheeps ni Jesus. :P

ikaw na batasan jud ni ninyo nga ang mga verses ra nga mo pabor sa inyong propaganda ang inyong e post para konohay sakto mo.

pero with my watchful eyes di na maka ipsot imong elementary nga interpretation sa bible.

unya kanang Get the behind me Satan unsa man imo pagsabot ana?

sige kono ... im waiting.

[Tetrad]

intawn ka elementary jud mo interpret ug scriptures haha.
unya wa nimo apila ang scene nga diin nagtapok silang Peter sa may dagat ug na ngaon sila ug gi pangutana si Peter, Peter do u love me? , katulo gipangutana si Peter ato ha. LOL, unya ang tubag are: feed my lambs, take care of my sheeps, Feed my sheeps.

So what if Peter was commanded by God to feed His lambs and sheep? Does it mean to become the head of the universal church? If mao man gani pasabot ana, is that your basis for Apostolic succession? c'mon mister higher knowledge!

Jesus is subtly reminding Peter of his three denials. There’s no doubt those denials and how he felt when Jesus turned to look at him at that moment were seared deeply into Peter’s mind (Luke 22:54–62). It wasn’t lost on Peter that Jesus repeated His question to him three times, just as Peter previously denied Him three times.
Why did Jesus ask Peter "Do you love me?" three times?

ambot lang kung nakasabot ba kaha ka anang feed my lambs, feed my sheeps now youre referring that to the Roman Catholics? mao ni imong pasabot sa lambs or sheeps ni Jesus Christ? unsa ni imoha, joke?

kana nga verse osa na sa ponto nga gitagaan og espesyal nga awtoridad si Pedro over sa sheeps ni Jesus. :P

Peter being the oldest of the apostles but maoy halfhearted of his faith sa Ginoo, thats the reason why God asked him multiple times to remind him of his upcoming role as the leader of the new Church, the Body of Christ there in Jerusalem (not ROME) that will be responsible for spreading the gospel after Jesus’ ascension into heaven.

ikaw na batasan jud ni ninyo nga ang mga verses ra nga mo pabor sa inyong propaganda ang inyong e post para konohay sakto mo.

nya nabatasan pud ni ninyo nga pasagad lag interpret or angkon ug verses nga perteng layoa ra sa tinuod sa inyong teachings and doctrines! the tree is known by its fruit migo, ayaw sigeg quote ug verses kung ang-angan ra kayo imong supporting evidence.

pero with my watchful eyes di na maka ipsot imong elementary nga interpretation sa bible.

bisan pag imong third eye iapil kung buta sad, di gyud gihapon magsilbi try harder migo.

unya kanang Get the behind me Satan unsa man imo pagsabot ana?
sige kono ... im waiting.

pasabot ana nga shifting sand si Peter and He's not the ROCK mentioned in Matthew 16:18. Unsa diay explaination sa imong advance knowledge? kindly share....

[Kenshiro]

So naa sa mga followers ang burden to check asa nila ang fake or original? Karon panahona lisod na kaayo i distinguish asa ang original or fake. Mao ng unsaon kaha sa ordinaryo nga tawo nga gusto unta mo follow sa truth pero naglisod kay libog asa ang tinood.

Unya kining imong giingon nga oldest version, how sure nga dili pud ni counterfeit ug walay nausab ani? Naa diay alamag ang ordinaryong tawo ug unsay original form or dili?

If these "words of god" can easily be counterfeited then so are some religious leaders. Can you counterfeit the teachings of Science? Like changing 9.8 m/s2 to something like 9.81 m/s2 to suit your needs?

I can't understand why religion put their members in a dilemma.

Thats the problem
The bible was not changed we have the original received text of hebrew and greek translated to kjv.
Translation and change are 2 different words.
Other revisions are changing.
As clearly seen in the video.

[Kenshiro]

Perhaps you remember David Koresh,
and what does his Bible interpretation did to his innocent members.

Coming from a dysfunctional family background, Koresh claimed to become a Christian in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, before joining a splinter group, based at the Mount Carmel Center near Waco, Texas, which took the name Branch Davidians. Here he competed for dominance with another leader named George Roden, until Roden was jailed for murdering another rival. Koresh was then accused of seducing a 13-year-old girl, apparently with her parents’ consent, a relationship that he sanctified as a ‘spiritual marriage’. But it was the serving of arrest and search warrants by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives as part of an investigation into illegal possession of firearms and explosives that provoked the historic 1993 raid on the center.[2] Four ATF agents and six Davidians were killed during the initial two hour firefight, both sides claiming the other side fired first. The subsequent siege by the FBI ended with the burning of the center, where Koresh and 79 others were found dead after the fire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh


and so many more out there.

Seems to be we're new to Apostasy.

When the Israelites murmured against God did Moses and Joshua created a splinter group?
The Israelites were not perfect such as the church today this should not be the cause for separation.