Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

[slabs17]

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LOL assumption... SO NILIHAY si Kristo WALA?

So since atung sundun ang paagi sa bibliya KRISTO nata...haha

Basaha ang James 2:14 pataas dunay explanation didto..

ayaw lagi ko tubaga ug pangutana....tubaga usa ang akong pangutana para tubagon tika...ako napud usbon ha...

UNSAON DI IE PAG ILA SA TRUE FAITH?

ayaw kog hatagi ug verse para akong basahon ikaw may mayng laki aning true faith tubaga ang pangutana ayaw nag likoy2x pa para motaas. tagsa nga pangutana tagsay tubag tapos. hinaot nga next reply nimo direct to the point najud. mo reklamo raba dayon mo kung ako rang tuyok tuyokon ang discussion

[Jhared]

Because anybody can CLAIM they Have FAITH but actually its Not a TRUE FAITH because it cannot be Seen on what they DO... like what James 2:14+ said.

so Basically to Differentiate the 2 for the sake of the conversation, i add the word TRUE to emphasize the later...

Only God can decide who has True Faith. all we can DO as Human is to see it in their deeds. that's the only thing we can do and its Not even enough to Judge them... we can only say Based on the Bible...

Ok well then, so basically we cannot know or judge wether or not a faith is true? then how come you keep on saying what is true faith and what is not when in fact only your god can decide and know what is true faith?

[jarves]

im not supporting anything, you're not getting it...

if true faith and faith is the same, then how come you are always making a distinction between the two? and how can we tell if a certain faith is true faith?

I think what @SioDenz is trying to imply is FAITH AND WORKS. But he does not want to sound catholic so he replaces AND with the words PRODUCE or MANIFESTATION. What is happening right now is that SioDenz is refuting himself. So if he says faith produces works or works is a manifestation of true faith then he rest assured that he is already eating the words he just vomited. No need to argue more. The fact that faith needs to manifest good works means it needs work to be determined as true faith. So it does go together. gets sio??

[slabs17]

I think what @SioDenz is trying to imply is FAITH AND WORKS. But he does not want to sound catholic so he replaces AND with the words PRODUCE or MANIFESTATION. What is happening right now is that SioDenz is refuting himself. So if he says faith produces works or works is a manifestation of true faith then he rest assured that he is already eating the words he just vomited. No need to argue more. The fact that faith needs to manifest good works means it needs work to be determined as true faith. So it does go together. gets sio??

sssshhhh ayg saba, mao nay punto imo man dayon gibuking

[SioDenz]

Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

That is the question posted in this thread. The root word there is ALONE. Is it sufficient and self sustaining enough to be alone that all other else are neglected? Let's start by how protestants interpret Faith Alone since the reformation and how Catholics interpret it since the apostolic era.

For Protestants you can't point to one definition of faith alone. This is because various denomination has his own interpretation.
These are their interpretations that I know of:
1. Faith Alone means faith does not need work. Meaning we are justified by our faith because our works are filthy rags, a dung covered in snow. They go on to say that the flesh is to no avail.
2. Faith (genuine) produces good works. Good works is the product of True Faith. In Catholic layman's term this means Faith and Works. But they do not want to sound catholic so they use this wordings. This basically is the thought of catholics interpretation. They just do not use the words "Faith AND Works". They replace the word AND with PRODUCE. Which are both different. They just do not like the word AND.


For Catholics:
Faith and Works go together. St. James compares it to a Body without a soul. Faith without works is dead.

When debating against a protestant this happens. IF their denom supports number 1 and it is refuted, then they will shift to number 2. They freely jump from one denom's interpretation to another just to try to refute the catholics but to their useless effort. That is why catholics say that protestants always refute themselves because in the end they will sound catholic and thus refuting what they believe in. I saw John Piper refute himself.

James is very clear in his writtings. Perhaps God gave him a prophecy that faith will be used ALONE in the future or maybe there where some sects who are already practicing it during that time that is why he refuted it in his writings.

It is very clear, Faith does not always produce good works. May it be genuine or not. Nowhere in the bible does it say that we are judged according to the level of our faith because it produce good works. Faith produces works is just another manipulation of words in order to trick people into thinking that faith will always produce good works.

They falsely assume that the catholic church teaches that catholics must earn their way into heaven. Or try to quantify how many good works must be needed in order to go to heaven. Nowhere in the Catechism of the Catholic Church states that. In fact it is condemned. It's just another lie spread by various protestant sects. Some protestant sects judge the catholic church by the bad catholics in the church. This is not a the basis of identifying the church of christ. Even in christ little church (his band of apostles) there was judas. But people still follow jesus despite of what judas did.

So, are we saved by faith alone? The answer is no! We are saved by the mercy, love and grace of God. Faith and Works is our response to that.

SEEMS like the catholic belief and the Protestant #2 is similar?

Also,
Maybe you need to Differentiate and clarify the FAITH alone belief of the Born Again..

FAITH alone can MEAN:
1. Good Works and Faith is ONE thats why saying Faith alone is grammatically correct since they are One.
or
2. FAITH ALONE means, as long as i believe in God, I can INTENTIONALLY Do bad things afterwards and i will still be saved.


You need to ask them what they really believe Because i think our belief is just the same its just that we use different WORD to describe it...

[Jhared]

I think what @SioDenz is trying to imply is FAITH AND WORKS. But he does not want to sound catholic so he replaces AND with the words PRODUCE or MANIFESTATION. What is happening right now is that SioDenz is refuting himself. So if he says faith produces works or works is a manifestation of true faith then he rest assured that he is already eating the words he just vomited. No need to argue more. The fact that faith needs to manifest good works means it needs work to be determined as true faith. So it does go together. gets sio??

so what he's saying is that what he considers as true faith is faith + good work? correct?
and that being faithful alone is not to be considered true? correct?
so basically we need to act on our faith and do good in order to be saved is his contention correct?

[SioDenz]

ayaw lagi ko tubaga ug pangutana....tubaga usa ang akong pangutana para tubagon tika...ako napud usbon ha...

UNSAON DI IE PAG ILA SA TRUE FAITH?

ayaw kog hatagi ug verse para akong basahon ikaw may mayng laki aning true faith tubaga ang pangutana ayaw nag likoy2x pa para motaas. tagsa nga pangutana tagsay tubag tapos. hinaot nga next reply nimo direct to the point najud. mo reklamo raba dayon mo kung ako rang tuyok tuyokon ang discussion

Nganu di man tika hatagan ug Verse nga Ang BIBLIYA may Source sa akong BELIEF, ngita kag lusot? Nice try...

ug unsa nang naa sa bibliya, mao nay explanation nko

Ngita paman kag in your own WORDS? if di ka kasabot anang naa sa James, WAY RASON makasabot kas akong Explanation..

ikaw ni ingun nko nga NILIHAY, nya hatagan taka ug Verse nga same sa akong Tubag nya pangutan on ka if Nilihay ba si Kristo, DILI KA MUTUBAG... haha


You ask, UNSAY pag ila sa True FAITH, ikaw nangutana ug UNA, akong tubag JAMES 2:14
Nya karun mu ask ko, DI KA MUSUGOT? haha

CGE lan ikaw pangutana? YOU did Not even mentioned in your First Question nga Di diay pwedi mag mu tubag ug naa sa bibliya..

[slabs17]

Nganu di man tika hatagan ug Verse nga Ang BIBLIYA may Source sa akong BELIEF, ngita kag lusot? Nice try...

ug unsa nang naa sa bibliya, mao nay explanation nko

Ngita paman kag in your own WORDS? if di ka kasabot anang naa sa James, WAY RASON makasabot kas akong Explanation..

ikaw ni ingun nko nga NILIHAY, nya hatagan taka ug Verse nga same sa akong Tubag nya pangutan on ka if Nilihay ba si Kristo, DILI KA MUTUBAG... haha


You ask, UNSAY pag ila sa True FAITH, ikaw nangutana ug UNA, akong tubag JAMES 2:14
Nya karun mu ask ko, DI KA MUSUGOT? haha

CGE lan ikaw pangutana? YOU did Not even mentioned in your First Question nga Di diay pwedi mag mu tubag ug naa sa bibliya..

then e post ang verse ang content mismo ha then hatagi ko sa imong interpretation aning imong gi ingon nga true faith. kani imong tubag usa ka matang nasab sa lihay.

ako nasad usbon ang pangutana ha...ika 4th time nani na pangutana

UNSAON DI IE PAG ILA SA TRUE FAITH?

[SioDenz]

Ok well then, so basically we cannot know or judge wether or not a faith is true? then how come you keep on saying what is true faith and what is not when in fact only your god can decide and know what is true faith?

Based on the Bible.. We can determine but we cannot JUDGE

Kuwang nsad imung Comprehension...

When you Kill, I can say ITS WRONG based on what is Written on the BIBLE. But I CANNOT JUDGE you if you have Sinned in the Eyes of GOD.

When i say You dont have True FAITH, it because of what i saw in your DEEDS which is based on the BIBLE, BUT I cannot JUDGE you that You Lost the Glory of God or You will Not be saved because only God knows.

Judging is different From saying its wrong based on the Guidelines written in the Bible.

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I think what @SioDenz is trying to imply is FAITH AND WORKS. But he does not want to sound catholic so he replaces AND with the words PRODUCE or MANIFESTATION. What is happening right now is that SioDenz is refuting himself. So if he says faith produces works or works is a manifestation of true faith then he rest assured that he is already eating the words he just vomited. No need to argue more. The fact that faith needs to manifest good works means it needs work to be determined as true faith. So it does go together. gets sio??

I think youre NOT a catholic. RC says salvation is FAITH and(+) Works.

Most RC defenders here that i have discussed Before Dont USE the word TOGETHER.. Most says Good Works is a Separate Requirements. I think you are the ONE who sounds Like a PROTESTANT haha

good one bro..

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sssshhhh ayg saba, mao nay punto imo man dayon gibuking

he sounds like a Protestant than a Catholic.

[slabs17]

he sounds like a Protestant than a Catholic.

lihay nasad sio? kani man noon way pulos imong gi quote