Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

[timshel0703]

---

UNSA MA'Y VERDICT ANI ----

Ato usbon ang Bible ug tangtangon tanang "Good works" verses

para mahimong absolute FAITH ALONE na lang jud?

[timshel0703]

@ Siodenz:

Mao ra ni bro akong masulti --

Nga ang Faith dili mo-result "AUTOMATICALLY" into good works
this is grossly unbiblical and a big lie.

[timshel0703]

@loucellmar:
bro maybe somebody here who is well-versed in theology can explain it for us.

[yanong_banikanhon]

May mahimo ba ta kung mao kini ang gi-set nga requirements sa Ginoo?
Kung di ka kapasar sa requirements, its your problem.
You dont change the rules of the game to win it.

Mura ni sa usa ka estudyante, bro, nga gitagaan og pointers sa final exam apan inay tun-an ang mga pointers, niingon na lang nuon nga 'Ah mao ra gihapon kun magtuon ko, mabagsak man gihapon.Maayo pa dili na lang. Mosalig na lang ko sa grasya ug kalooy sa akong professor. Kay 100% sure ko nga kun mosalig ko ni prof., malooy siya nako, iya dayon ko ipapasar.'

[percent01]

Sorry murag OT diay..

Nag wonder lang unsa nahitabo ato nila..
Dba naa man mga bata ato nangamatay.. mga wala pay alam sa kalibutan.. na save ila souls ato? sure ko dili pa ing.ato ka kusog ilang faith (or napa kusog lang ug kalit kai wala namai choice)


na unsa ila souls?

since they were given a life nya gi bawi ra daun. automatic ba nga save ila souls ato? wala cguro to silay maayong na buhat pa sa kalibutan kai bata pa lagi not given enough time to learn "HIS" words..

And ohh yea.. naa koi madungan nga words nga "naai purpose imong life diri maong naa ka diri"
Unsa sila purpose? e apil sila sa mga ma deads?

Ambot if matawag ba nako akong self ug Atheist kai usahay mu tuo man ko usahay pud dili.. Lets say nalang nga weak na kaayo akong kanang titawag nga faith faith.. so namasin lang ko basin ma balik pa diay..

1. noOne can answer. GRACE nana sa ginoo pre. when Adam sinned against God everyone suffers, but still i believe GRACE nana sa ginoo na ma.heaven cla. theres no such things as "Limbo" na place as what others belief says.

2. you dont need deads/works to work for your salvation(that is religion). faith alone is done deal. Christianity is about relationship with God. and if naa ka sa usa ka relasyon i know buhaton nimo ang tanan para mahimong ma.solid na mao nana diha ang works/deads. and kani pd, there are five heavenly crowns mentioned in the New Testament that will be awarded to believers

The Imperishable Crown – (1 Corinthians 9:24-25)
The Crown of Rejoicing – (1 Thessalonians 2:19)
The Crown of Righteousness – (2 Timothy 4:
The Crown of Glory – (1 Peter 5:4)
The Crown of Life – (Revelation 2:10)

sa dula pa mao na imong mga badges or recognition inig abot sa langit.
hoping naka help.
(nasaag ra ko kay walay bago sa ubang thread :v )

[noy]

Sorry murag OT diay..

Nag wonder lang unsa nahitabo ato nila..
Dba naa man mga bata ato nangamatay.. mga wala pay alam sa kalibutan.. na save ila souls ato? sure ko dili pa ing.ato ka kusog ilang faith (or napa kusog lang ug kalit kai wala namai choice)

na unsa ila souls?

since they were given a life nya gi bawi ra daun. automatic ba nga save ila souls ato? wala cguro to silay maayong na buhat pa sa kalibutan kai bata pa lagi not given enough time to learn "HIS" words..

Hi bro,

whenever or in several occasions, when Jesus would make an example about how to please God. He would refer to be "like these little ones" or be like a child..
in fact, in Matthew 18:3
Jesus said, " “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

this points out to the thought that children have a special attribute that always pleased the Lord, perhaps their innocence and sincerity.

Although we cannot say for sure that the Children who have spent so little time on earth will go straight to Heaven.
but in good faith, we entrust them to the mercy of God and in confidence of God's Love, we believe they are in a far more better place than we are now.

For us death is so awful and it will always be...
but if after that tragic phase we can see and be with God, then Death is not so bad at all...kana kung malangit pud ta..LOL

OnT: mao bitaw, di ta makaingun nga ang walay FAITH ni Jesus kay automatically condemned to Hell na, kay kadtong mga bata diay diba? for sure di pa ing-ana kahugot ilang Faith, some perhaps even have none..
however this doesn't also mean that good works ALONE can save souls..UNLESS God wills it depending on certain circumstances only known to Him..

Salvation is a mystery only known to God and in confidence we believe that Christ has purchased and paid the price for the salvation of the WHOLE WORLD on the cross. including and especially those who do not believe in Him and did not get the chance to know Him..

now, kay dili naman ta prehas sa mga bata nga inosente, it is up to us how we are going to claim that salvation. God's mercy and Love is already there...
it's up to us how are we going to respond.. perhaps we can start by asking questions with an open mind and heart. i started there too..

One thing is for sure though, Loving other people and trying to be righteous in every way possible pleases the Lord.
so whatever point of views and perspective we hold about God and salvation or even if we have none.. Let's just continue to do good to others and listen to the tiny voice in our conscience guiding us to the path of righteousness.
i believe that every human being has an innate goodness within and that goodness is the voice of God telling us what to do.

And ohh yea.. naa koi madungan nga words nga "naai purpose imong life diri maong naa ka diri"
Unsa sila purpose? e apil sila sa mga ma deads?

Yes, everything in Life has its purpose, even as simple sa pagpangalot sa ulo..naay purpose diba? how much more Life itself?
Lisod man sultihon but dili jud ta maka absolutely conclude ug unsay purpose sa tanang nahitabo sa atong kinabuhi..

kung para nato wala toy purpose ang kinabuhi sa mga bata nga nangamatay tungod kay kadali ra kaayo sila nabuhi..
Their purpose doesn't have to fit with our standards or how purpose should be from our point of view..

Like struggles and Problems, heartaches, failures,sickness and even Death..
who would want them in our lives diba?

but in the course of time, makita nato slowly nga the greatest causes of our strenth and learnings in life is through the Hardships we have gone through..
had we not fallen, we wouldn't know how to rise again..
had we not felt pain, we wouldn't know that we can heal...
had we not felt anger, we wouldn't know how to forgive...
and had we not lost something, we wouldn't know how to treasure the things we have and how blessed we are in our lives..

and sometimes, these hardships are simply the results of our poor and wrong choices. although it would serve the purpose for learning, in a hard way nalang jud hinuon...

personally, i have made sevaral wrong choices in the past that even until now i am still suffering the loss of my poor choices..
but i am thankful and grateful for it made me who i am today.
i don't know if you would agree but i call it purpose for they have brought in specific learnings and maturity in me.

Ambot if matawag ba nako akong self ug Atheist kai usahay mu tuo man ko usahay pud dili.. Lets say nalang nga weak na kaayo akong kanang titawag nga faith faith.. so namasin lang ko basin ma balik pa diay..

That's why it's called Faith 'cause you can't see it..
you have my prayers.. All the best.

[MasterK]

1. noOne can answer. GRACE nana sa ginoo pre. when Adam sinned against God everyone suffers, but still i believe GRACE nana sa ginoo na ma.heaven cla. theres no such things as "Limbo" na place as what others belief says.

2. you dont need deads/works to work for your salvation(that is religion). faith alone is done deal. Christianity is about relationship with God. and if naa ka sa usa ka relasyon i know buhaton nimo ang tanan para mahimong ma.solid na mao nana diha ang works/deads. and kani pd, there are five heavenly crowns mentioned in the New Testament that will be awarded to believers

The Imperishable Crown – (1 Corinthians 9:24-25)
The Crown of Rejoicing – (1 Thessalonians 2:19)
The Crown of Righteousness – (2 Timothy 4:
The Crown of Glory – (1 Peter 5:4)
The Crown of Life – (Revelation 2:10)

sa dula pa mao na imong mga badges or recognition inig abot sa langit.
hoping naka help.
(nasaag ra ko kay walay bago sa ubang thread :v )

maau kay naasag ka diri sis. kay morag ikaw nalang in favor sa faith alone diri. "deeds/work" tingali imo pasabot.
unsa man sad imong basis anang statement #2 nimo sis?

[KimAdam]

I also Be-leave that just keep doing good thing with proper work and harm no one.

[percent01]

maau kay naasag ka diri sis. kay morag ikaw nalang in favor sa faith alone diri. "deeds/work" tingali imo pasabot.
unsa man sad imong basis anang statement #2 nimo sis?

mibackread ko gamay masterK para naa koy background gamay taka nya ko yawit diri.


Pa OT:


I agree with @SioDenz to ask for the right verses bcoz....
When we speak of allowing Scripture to interpret itself, what we mean is that we let God explain what the Bible says, instead of making up explanations


2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Salvation is a mystery only known to God .... ... ..


now, kay dili naman ta prehas sa mga bata nga inosente, it is up to us how we are going to claim that salvation.

i disagree on this. God already showed us d way.




OT:
the root of this thread kay..
bcoz of our sinned. if you are not looking on this or fell the separation mag lisud jd kag sabot.
In romans 3:23
... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...
...
In romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death...


we have all sinned against a holy and righteous God. The penalty for sin is eternal separation from God in hell.
God is just and must punish sin.


BUt..


He is also loving and does not want us to go to hell forver.


Now. atong usa usahon.
in the old custom sa mga isralites when you commit sin. you must prepare some offering(atonement)


Grace: the free and unmerited favor of God


God's sacrifice and substitution
The justice of God demands a sacrifice for man's sin. Jesus Christ became that sacrifice and paid the penalty for our sin at the cross.
that's exactly what happened on the cross. Jesus took our place and our punishment(imagine nlang kung ikaw kaha to gpanitpanitan ug gilansang).
He took our curse ang gave us His blessings. Because of His sinless life, Jesus was the only one qualified to pay the penalty for man's sin and bridge the gap between God and man.


2 Co. 5:21
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.


this is Grace. we dont deserve this stuff. i mean who am i to be rescue na ako man unta dapat mobayad sa akong sala ako dapat mo.WORK sa akong salvation.
pero there... there... gihatag na.


FAITH: complete trust or confidence in someone or something


Our Response: receive God's gift by faith
We receive salvation when we stop trusting in ourselves and put our trust in what Christ did for us. (faith na kay wala ta didto panghitaboa).
Our salvation is a result of God's grace. It is based on what Jesus did for us on the cross. It has nothing to do with what we do for Him. We cannot save ourselves or earn God's approval through the good works we do.
We are saved by God's grace when we realize our need for a Saviour, turn from sin, and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, putting our trust in Him alone for salvation.


Romans 10:9-10
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.


Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST.



And to answer question in page 1 about James 2:24, not by faith alone
this is taken out of context.
James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God, but he is making it clear that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ with a life that shows no works has a false or dead faith and is not saved. James is clearly making a contrast between two different types of faith—truth faith that saves and false faith that is dead.

in short nagpakitang tao lamang.

Hope maklaro ra pag explain kay libog ko asa mo start ug moigo.

geh. trabaho sa ko balik.

[Passport]

seriously.. the thread title is fallacious by itself. for it presents as premise that faith and works are separate and distinct. in the context of this discussion, works follows faith. therefore, they are consequential and hence, not exclusive of the other.

if you have faith.. your works will be in accordance to that faith.

He said... "I am the way, the truth, and the Life.. no man can come to the Father except through me"...

therefore.. every act of salvation .. begins with one's faith in Him..