Discussion on the Christ Jesus.

[diem]

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[color=navy]^^Yes, can we please just talk about Jesus now?

[Icei_NheLL]

I think everyone will agree with me that the greatest source of the person (Jesus) which is the topic of this thread is the Bible.

Perhaps, correct me if I'm wrong, if we get to discuss of the person, it is just right to discuss the source.

What is perfect? What is erroneous? It's all relative~

Not necessarily, I think it is general to say that perfection entails to something that has no errors. The perfection of the Bible is no longer relative if there are contradicting passages for these contradictions will entail that one is correct while the other is wrong. If One is incorrect, then the notion that the Bible is imperfect is no longer a relative statement.


No matter who, or no one will, believe that the Bible is the Word of GOD. one thing remains the same and has been proven and stood the test of time.

As to how long a concept stood is not a measure of it's credibility. Perhaps you forgot that for centuries, man thought of earth as flat until it was proven to be wrong. For centuries as well, man thought that the earth is the center of the universe (that the sun revolves around the earth and earth is steady), and that too has been proven wrong. For centuries, the Church uses power and instill fear for their concept to be accepted, but then again, the truth shall prevail. Your lines are nice to read, but it does not answer nor refute my statements in the specifics. Are we just trying to stay away now from them now? I remember the Galileo inquisition. The Church will just answer Galileo's questions with general concepts but not specifics. The Church refuse to listen to Galileo's proofs that the sun is the center of the universe and is steady...that it is the earth that goes around the sun. But the Church refuses to listen, thus they never learned. The Church didn't even apologized to Galileo's inquisition until Pope John Paul II. Why? Because the Church doesn't want to admit that they are wrong.

Imagine, the fact that the sun is the center of the universe has been accepted and proven by the majority for centuries...but not until lately that the Church admitted that they are wrong in the Galileo inquisition.

[diem]

[color=navy]All I can say is the enlightened mind is one that concedes that nothing is impossible, at times improbable but nothing is impossible.

@Icei_nHell, And yes you may discuss about the Bible but only in context with the person of Jesus and his existence (alleged or whatever)...but as far as I could see your recent posts has no mention of Jesus at all. All I see are attempts to disprove Jesus by disproving the Bible, but come on~ isn't one post enough to prove a point?

And how about the Qu'ran? There is revered mention of Jesus and Mary there in those Holy Scriptures. How about disproving the Qu'ran?

[Mr.Ho_chia]

Para d na mo OT i will just refer you back to my earlier posts. but until that time comes then it stands.

If you are not sure then remain the same, no one is forcing you from the start, i wouldn't mind if you have your own concept or probably your own writings, but to me, it remain to be the absolute fact and you can't do anything about it. GOD is real to me and the Holy Bible is infallible and true to me also.

I believe that Christ came for my sins, He is my Savior and LORD for HE purchased me with His precious Blood. He defeated death because HE rose from it the third day and the gate of hell didn't prevail against HIM. As what the Bible is saying about everything so be it to me, without a doubt.

[Icei_NheLL]

My apologies sir, I study Roman Catholism, it's history and concepts. Besides, I don't think that it is right to mention the Qu'ran for now since it only revered Jesus as a prophet and not the messiah. Meaning, Jesus played a minor role. Besides, nobody has mentioned the Qu'ran that much in this thread. It's mostly what the Bible says about Jesus. My point for my argument is, the Bible is not perfect, thus it is not right to believe everything just because the Bible says so. After proving that point, then I go to disproving the general Roman Catholic notion of Jesus.

All I can say is the enlightened mind is one that concedes that nothing is impossible, at times improbable but nothing is impossible.

How true you are on this line...but this works on both ways. An enlightened mind is also someone who studies his faith and tradition and not just merely following and believing what his faith and traditions offer. I have been through both sides. I am a Roman Catholic in religion, but I have an open mind on things...that Catholism be merely just a tool in politics and nothing more than an old man's tale. Or...on other hand, could be the true religion and Jesus as the true messiah.

But the question remains, God says that you should not adored no other God than Him. If Jesus is indeed who we thought He is, then we can be saved. But if Jesus is nothing more an impostor, or that there is an institution trying to use it as a mere tool by glorifying Jesus in their political plans...then we are damned.

My posts might be numerous, but isn't it normal? It takes man numerous proofs for them to accept the error of their ways before they will actually believe that they are wrong or do something about it?

I hope you will bear with me. I am merely taking this thread to a higher level. I appreciate those who can refute me with basis and study. Honestly, I don't have a concrete belief right now as to who Jesus really is. It just makes me disappointed that most people will actually just surrender their beliefs through traditions and do not even do something to learn why it is so that is why I'm stirring this thread.

Rest assured, I don't have intentions of taking this lower nor off-tracked. I'm just taking this one point at a time. That way, everybody will be understood by either sides.

But with those who can't actually make an argument but is much eager to post their side, I do can't do anything about it. I think it is the culture of the Roman Catholic Church to be bull-headed...from the Pope all the way to the subjects of the faith.

[diem]

[color=navy]@Icei_nHell, well different people value different things. And when it comes to valuables, people are bull-headed. It is in our given nature as human beings.

Please continue with your religious studies but I think you're already having a hard time studying Faith~ well it's your time and efforts, we all have our crosses to bear in a manner of speaking. Wish you the best.

*****

As for me, my belief in Jesus is relative. I believe in Him as a prophet of God as well as the Son of God. Jesus is a prophet of more than just God's word and of God's promise~ He is the prophecy of what any one of us could be.

Setting aside the Gospels and the Testaments... let's take a look of Jesus' positive influence right now! All the miracles that occur everyday that real people, alive and well, testify due to believing in Him!

I believe that as of Buddha, Jesus is at the prime of human evolution; physically, mentally and dare I say it spiritually--

He is the Son of God and yet He calls us his Brothers and Sisters, meaning we are all Children of God too. And we can share the same ultimate destiny as of Jesus~ salvation, oneness with God, enlightenment, evolution, peace and prosperity.. happiness for all! This is who the Christ Jesus is essentially all about!

Well that's what I personally understand and believe, anyhow. I no longer need evidence for something I accept as Truth.

[b]I know that God exists and I believe Jesus is a manifestation of God's existence, and I am a manifestation of God's existence too~ I know that I exist myself and I believe in myself, then I should believe in Jesus.

If it's wrong or right, should it matter to anyone else? As long as I am happy and do not cause others unhappiness, that should be okay.

[Icei_NheLL]

Well, if the Messianic Prophecy is accurate and if you are indeed wrong in your belief that Jesus is the Messiah...it should matter to you coz that would mean you are damned for eternity.

And if you are correct, then you may be saved depending on how you lived with his teachings.

Belief is indeed relative. But for me, I don't want to believe something just by mere traditions and I actually urge everyone to do so too. Searching for answers does not actually mean you don't believe in Him, that just mean that I want to seek God for God is Truth.

[diem]

[color=navy]^^Limiting to what's right or wrong is like thinking in black and white, setting aside the gray. But reality is so much more than black and white, and gray... there are many other colors.

Well, if the Messianic Prophecy is accurate and if you are indeed wrong in your belief that Jesus is the Messiah...it should matter to you coz that would mean you are damned for eternity.

And if you are correct, then you may be saved depending on how you lived with his teachings.

[color=navy]Too many ifs! If you ask me, not the way to live life to the fullest if I would concerned myself with those sort of ifs.

Belief is indeed relative. But for me, I don't want to believe something just by mere traditions and I actually urge everyone to do so too.

[color=navy]Hmmm urge. Why not just invite? Inviting people leaves them more a choice doesn't it, to believe or not believe?

And please do not assume that people just believe because of mere traditions, often enough more and more people believe because of actual personal experience.

Searching for answers does not actually mean you don't believe in Him, that just mean that I want to seek God for God is Truth.

[color=navy]Well I wish you well in your search. I hope that you find the answers you seek, the answers you accept and experience as truth.

I'd like to invite everyone to experience the Truth of Jesus with me by just simply following Him, living His teachings in regards to others and everyday things and we would become like Peter whose confession of Jesus' divine identity is called "blessed, for this was not revealed by man, but by the Father in heaven."

I would also like to invite everyone to study and experience other religions too. When it comes to customs and traditions, well yes these are different. But the essential truths of love, good will and hope for humanity are essentially the same.

For everyone's kind consideration.

[Icei_NheLL]

Any arguments with the Gospels I have presented? Anybody who can refute to that and I will gladly listen.

[diem]

[color=navy]^^@Icei_nHell, no-- I can't refute your argument about the Gospels being 'edited'. There is historical basis so I would have to agree with you. That is why I have implied in my previous post that you have proven your point with one post.

As for accuracy, well I'll just say this.. for me, the Gospels could be as accurate as the Qu'ran, the Torah and the Vedas, or the Sumerian clay tablets found in Iraq~

Hahaha the Truth reveals itself in mysterious ways. Whose to say that inaccuracy does not have a role in the Divine Scheme?

@Icei_nHell, may I ask who's Jesus for you?