Discussion on the Christ Jesus.

[kalanrakas]

---

Wa kahay na lost in translation?

[Mr.Ho_chia]

kiung na lost in translation naa raman ang orig, macheck man.

[kalanrakas]

kiung na lost in translation naa raman ang orig, macheck man.

asa man nang orig? naa sa Vatican archives. Are protestants comfortable with that?

[tulisan666]

even your so called bible scholars, not all have access to those archives...why kaya?
what else could they be hiding, secrets?

[Mr.Ho_chia]

with the Jewish people in Israel.

[Icei_NheLL]

I am amazed by the reactions...i gave the whole weekend and I believe nobody contradicts now with the fact that the Bible has been edited. I don't see any strong oppositions on it. Just a bunch of beating around the bush. I guess it's time to move forward.

But before that, there is a statement that says "and who are these theologians? did they come to a conclusion that the Bible is infact erroneous?", well, to answer this question, I can give you one name...Origen, a noted early Christian scholar, theologian and amongst the most distinguished of the early fathers of the Christian Church. Origen qouted all three gospels (Matthew, Luke and John) to contain the ressurection story.

And people actually think that the power of the Church did not diminished? Are we to turn our back in history? The Church was the most powerful influence in Europe where even the Kings fear to anger. But today. the Church has minimal influence to world leaders...even in the Philippines. Oh yes, Pres. Gloria pays her respect with the Pope but didn't the Pope said that artificial contraceptives is against the law of the Church? How come the government has been marketing contraceptives still? Read between the lines. You go to europe and see the great Churches with their massive architectural designs, what do you see there? Tourists, and not pilgrims, constitutes the majority of visitors. Ah yes, the population of the members of the Church are still massive. But are they true members of the Church? How many percent goes to hear mass on Sundays? Here on the Philippines itself, how many hypocrits you know who hear mass on Sundays but never get to practice the ways of the Church? It's so funny how those cab drivers get to make the sign of the cross everytime they get to pass a Church but often doesn't give out the exact change nor an apology. Its a matter of tradition and not faith...true faith that is.

The Church is still there...my observation is, its more of pride compared to faith and the lack of a better alternative. Its normal that people get to defend their own in times of questioning (much more on the competition of faith). Then comes the lack of a better alternative empowered by tradition. Its also normal that people are hesitant to jump ship most especially if the other ship doesnt provide an assuring promise of a better service.

Lastly, I would like to reiterate, if the Bible is indeed the "word of God", what authority does any human (irregardless if he holds great position in the Church) to edit it? If the Gospel of Mark does not contain the story of ressurection? why would anyone put it there? One reason I can think of, is that the Gospel of Mark (based on the Markan Priority) is the basis of the other synoptic gospels (Matthew and Luke) while John is the most recent compared to the other four. If Matthew, Luke and John based their story in Mark and Mark doesn't show the story of ressurection, what would it represent? I'm pretty sure anyone can answer that. Its not good for the Church.

Furthermore, perhaps we get to discuss about translations specifically in Matthew's. The old messianic prophecy tells of a saviour...a messiah. But Matthew went to great extent to try to fit Jesus in that prophecy. Fortunate for us, Matthew, like any human, made great blunders not to be noticed brought by his limited understanding of the Hebrew language...To name a few, the messianic prophecy used the word "almah" to refer to the mother of the messiah. "Almah" literally means "young woman" but Matthew translated it to greek as "pantheras" which literally means "virgin". Thus, the virgin birth surfaced. Secondly, of the three synoptic gospels and the gospel of John, only Matthew tells the story of the "slaughter of the innocents" (Matthew 2:16-1. But then again, there is no proof that this ever happened. Matthew said in the gospel that the slaughter of the innocents fulfilled the prophecy in Jeremiah as the sign of the messiah. But the passage in Jeremiah is not a prophecy, but rather, a story of the Babylonian exile. Even the historian Josephus, who is popular for accounting King Herod's atrocities has no mention of it. There are no historical nor archeological proof that the slaughter of the innocents made by King Herod in the time of Jesus really exist except in the Gospel of Matthew. This, again, is Matthew's blunder of trying to glorify Jesus as the Messiah brought by a mistranslation of the book of Jeremiah originally in Hebrew. And to prove moreover that Matthew is not really good in Hebrew is Matthew's story of Jesus' entrance to Jerusalem. This one ought to be funny. The messianic prophecy tells of a story of the Messiah who will be entering into Jerusalem in a donkey. The Zacharian passage tried to reiterate on what kind of an animal the Messiah will be riding naming two kinds. It's like saying, "i have a chihuahua, which is a dog". But Matthew misinterpreted it as two kinds of animals thus in Matthew's story that Jesus entered Jerusalem riding two animals. Can you just imagine how Jesus would have looked like riding two animals? one butt on each animal?

Well, seriously, the Bible is not perfect...thus, it is not the word of God. God being perfect does not have space for errors. And if indeed the gospel writters were graced and guided by the Holy Spirit when they wrote them, then the Holy Spirit was not guiding the Matthew writer well.

Would like to listen to any objection or reactions to these. If there is none, then we'll proceed to the contradictions.

[eXstAsSy]

Very well said.. yes I myself do not believe that the Bible is the word of God...But it is a very good form of literature =P

To the people here please do not talk about YOUR God because its rude. Youre excluding alot of people. Talking about Religion and preaching your beliefs is rude.

[diem]

[color=navy]Perfection is a concept beyond human comprehension. People who presume to comprehend such, presume too much of themselves.

What is perfect? What is erroneous? It's all relative~

Everyone please cease all discussions whether the Bible is the Word of God or not, that's not the topic of this thread.

To the people here please do not talk about YOUR God because its rude. Youre excluding alot of people. Talking about Religion and preaching your beliefs is rude.

[color=navy]Ah people here are allowed to talk about their God especially if it concerns one Jesus Christ because that's the topic of this thread. Suggesting otherwise, that is rude.

Again, everyone please be on topic. Just a friendly reminder.

[Mr.Ho_chia]

No matter who, or no one will, believe that the Bible is the Word of GOD. one thing remains the same and has been proven and stood the test of time. The Bible remains. People from all walks of life even generations long ago, indeed exerted all their might and focus on their strength to destroy the Bible. These people are not just people of present times, they have been in the past but history will tell us, it was indeed a futile act for it is written:

Heaven and earth will pass away but my word will not pass away.

Na hala, show all proofs there are in this time, the time before or even the time after and i will stand on the one passage that the Almighty, True and Living GOD of the Bible utters. For HE is mighty and great, HIS ways are higher than our ways, HIS thoughts are higher than ours. Awesome God of the jews and the gentiles. HIS word will come to pass and no one will ever prevail, awesome GOD! Awesome indeed.

It's our security (All Bible Believers). That our GOD is great. Nothing He say that will not happen, HE is faithful and true. so arise all ye people of GOD and take refuge in the Almighty. put on the armor of GOD and be bold in your faith for great is your GOD and greatly to be praise.

Let us free our hearts with anger and hatred. let us rejoice in the LORD our GOD for HE is our victory, HE is our assurance. Greater is HE that is in us than he that is in the world. so than when we utter words from our mouth we will speak greatly of HIM full of understanding and mindful of every one else.

Have a great day to all.

[Mr.Ho_chia]

btaw ot na. sorry sir. Ibalik na ni sa topic.

GOD Bless all