NBA 2006-2007- official discussion board- read first post with mods note

[makoyvelasco]

Atkins could be a perimeter threat but he's getting old while McInnis is a troubled PG who's having problems back in New Jersey, he could be another Marcus Banks. Posey is a poor man's Shawn Marion eventhough he has championship experience, Kapono needs more money and D Anderson might be a good pickup but he could be just another Jalen Rose.

Fortson is an undersized 6'8 center, if the Suns sign him, maghuot na sila ni Pat Burke sa bench. Joe Smith, Kelvin Cato and Michael Olowokandi are horrible big men. Few teams have been able to utilize their bigness and how much more if they play with the Suns who run 200 miles an hour.

The Suns use 6-7 players on the court, one big guy will do in guarding tough guys like the Duncans, Boozers, Yaos and O'Neals of the league. Keep in mind that their primary style is PURE OFFENSE.

steve nash, amare stoudemire, shawn marion, leandro barbosa and raja bell still remains phoenix's main men. they will still log their usual 35-40 minutes per night. what the suns primarily need is 2 things: a more decent big man to work hand in hand with amare and shawn marion, and a bunch of second stringers who could give the starters some deserved rest.

phoenix doesnt need a big man who could play somewhere near amare or marion's level. what they need is someone who could bang bodies with other team's big men, maybe not stop them but at least slow them down and save amare from foul trouble. signing 'not-so-good-big-men' might do some good for the suns. their main aim, aside from saving amare from foul troubles, is also not to wear amare out playing defense, after all, he's the main man in steve nash's crosshair. danny fortson, though at 6'8, is a more physical player who could bang inside and grab rebounds and do hustle, while kelvin cato, at 7'0, is still a decent shotblocker and could intimidate. phoenix indee doesn't need lots of big men inside to play defense, but they might need some spare. maybe someone better than pat burke or sean marks when they run out of big men.

atkins and kapono could provide the suns more perimeter and outside shooting while james posey is a better option than james jones, a good reliever for shawn marion at least. he could run and play the open court pretty well, plus he could also shoot. a pretty good fit for the suns.

A decent big man? Yi Jianlian is still raw. The Suns may have to make him run to score, but defense-wise he has the ability to do it. But, like i said, he's still a project. Al Horford is a good fit for the Suns indeed but they still have to find someone who can ease Steve Nash's minutes on the floor. With Mike Conley, the Suns are preparing a quality PG for the future. Sure, they need a big man but they're playing a run-and-gun style and a PG who has a good court vision will help them tremendously, especially with Nash on the bench.

by looking at his stats, mike conley could be a shoot-forst-before-pass point guard, maybe he'll bring back memories of stephon marbury rather than steve nash or jason kidd to phoenix. conley averaged 16.3 points and 4.0 assists in his senior year. though, his stats were impressive, hitting above the .500 mark in FGs and near the .400 mark in 3-pt FGs. but still, conley is a really good pick for phoenix

yi jianlian--i agree, he's a work in progress in the NBA. but it might not take that long before he'll come at his potential. he's got more international experience than any other player in the draft. and he even had some great moments during the world championships, putting dirk nowitzki and pau gasol in his poster. he's more mobile than any other centers, and he can shoot and take the ball to the basket. one thing to work on: his body

al horford: at 6'9, he'll be more of a power forward than a center. maybe the next elton brand or karl malone perhaps. (13.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, 1.8 bpg, .608 FG) not bad numbers after all.



hoy, lunateec, atimana na imong hawks. nagsubaybay pud ko sa hornets nako

[lunateec22]

steve nash, amare stoudemire, shawn marion, leandro barbosa and raja bell still remains phoenix's main men. they will still log their usual 35-40 minutes per night. what the suns primarily need is 2 things: a more decent big man to work hand in hand with amare and shawn marion, and a bunch of second stringers who could give the starters some deserved rest.

I know what you're trying to say but I am pointing out the best possible scenario to compliment the Suns' financial stability in the long run. IN Suns' case, getting a big guy is secondary, since they need someone that is capable of providing the utmost need that they long for to keep their pace at a steady stature.

more decent big man to work

someone who could bang bodies with

I'm a bit confused here. Does the Suns really need "more decent big man to work" or "someone who could bang bodies with"? Is it only one big guy you're trying to put it or big men? Please clarify this one for me.

signing 'not-so-good-big-men' might do some good for the suns.

"might". That's one word that means anything can happen and what will the Suns do if it "might" not work for these 'not-so-good-big-men' to begin with? One fact is that, the Suns actually could've went into the Western Finals in today's playoffs if only Amare and Diaw were not suspended. I mean, they were doing well before the NBA threw the pie into their faces.

atkins and kapono could provide the suns more perimeter and outside shooting while james posey is a better option than james jones, a good reliever for shawn marion at least. he could run and play the open court pretty well, plus he could also shoot. a pretty good fit for the suns.

Again, Atkins is aging plus he's an offensive PG and this is not what the Suns need since they need a pass-first PG to work with. Kapono needs money after an impressive display last season and Posey may be a better pick up but, again, he'll have to find his presence somewhere, especially when it requires a change of chemistry for them to jell.

by looking at his stats, mike conley could be a shoot-forst-before-pass point guard, maybe he'll bring back memories of stephon marbury rather than steve nash or jason kidd to phoenix.

You used 'could' and that presents a rightful assessment that he 'could' become a shoot-first. Evidently, he's projected as a pick between #5-10 and some actually projected him to be one of the top 5. I guess his "shoot-first" attitude means more than the scouts' claim that he's an excellent passer and ballhandler.

And those stats? What more can you expect from rookies? it doesn't require whopping numbers for them to improve in the NBA. New players gain experience and the development that they are going to have will make them become one of the most finest players around the league for years.

yi jianlian--i agree, he's a work in progress in the NBA. but it might not take that long before he'll come at his potential.

I'm gonna have to say good luck to the Suns if they get this guy.

hoy, lunateec, atimana na imong hawks. smiley nagsubaybay pud ko sa hornets nako

Klaro ana. But that doesn't mean nga wa nako nagpakabana sa uban na mga teams. And again, I'm getting tired about the Hawks incapabilities but it doesn't mean it's all about the players. A reconstruction from the owners, management and coaches should be realized to put this team into the right path.

[makoyvelasco]

I'm a bit confused here. Does the Suns really need "more decent big man to work" or "someone who could bang bodies with"? Is it only one big guy you're trying to put it or big men? Please clarify this one for me.

both actually. 'big man to work with amare and marion' and 'someone who could bang bodies' mean putting relief on both amare and marion on guarding other team's big men, especially someone like duncan or d. howard. let the other big men do the defensive chores and fouling while let amare and marion do the running and scoring, suns basketball at its best

"might". That's one word that means anything can happen and what will the Suns do if it "might" not work for these 'not-so-good-big-men' to begin with? One fact is that, the Suns actually could've went into the Western Finals in today's playoffs if only Amare and Diaw were not suspended. I mean, they were doing well before the NBA threw the pie into their faces.

thats actually why the suns need to have more big men in their line-up. amare and diaw are among the very, very few reliable big men in their camp, and that left kurt thomas all alone along with the 6'7 shawn marion to man the paint. next season, thomas is not getting any younger and the suns will be left with only stoudemire and diaw. what if amare and diaw was not suspended? will the suns win the pivotal game 5? it could be yes, it could be no. though, it's their home, anything could still happen. phoenix would again run into their usual two-man attack: steve nash and amare stoudemire. shawn marion ang kurt thomas might not have stepped up in that game which would have left the spurs a few defensive options. though if amare and diaw was at game 5, i pick phoenix winning that game. but still, we don't know what could've happened if they're present.

my point is that, phoenix is short of big men, and they need some, if not to relieve amare, marion and diaw, at least they have some to pick in case, worst comes to worst, the suns will be out of their key players in the paint

Again, Atkins is aging plus he's an offensive PG and this is not what the Suns need since they need a pass-first PG to work with. Kapono needs money after an impressive display last season and Posey may be a better pick up but, again, he'll have to find his presence somewhere, especially when it requires a change of chemistry for them to jell.

You used 'could' and that presents a rightful assessment that he 'could' become a shoot-first. Evidently, he's projected as a pick between #5-10 and some actually projected him to be one of the top 5. I guess his "shoot-first" attitude means more than the scouts' claim that he's an excellent passer and ballhandler.

And those stats? What more can you expect from rookies? it doesn't require whopping numbers for them to improve in the NBA. New players gain experience and the development that they are going to have will make them become one of the most finest players around the league for years.

chucky atkins is a scorer, and let him be. without steve nash, the suns runs with barbosa leading the fastbreak and boris diaw calling the shots in half-court game. though barbosa is another shoot-first-before-pass guard, he's still a good passer as so is diaw. atkins will never be a part of the suns' long-term plan so he could be disposed next season or two. atkins is a better fit than marcus banks. as for jason kapono, phoenix could afford him. he was paid very close to $1.2M by miami. a $2.5 or $3M max by phoenix will be reasonable for him

conley is the best PG in the draft, and probably with the highest potential. but steve nash is yet in his prime and is still good for 4-5 or even 6 years. my question is, will somebody of conley's potential be patient enough to wait that long to finally break out? maybe yes if phoenix takes care of him. but it would be very unlikely since he'll be so limited. working with steve nash, conley could never be in his highest potential. maybe same story of tracy mcgrady and jermaine o'neal. steve nash is still on the rise and still gets better and better.

[lunateec22]

both actually. 'big man to work with amare and marion' and 'someone who could bang bodies' mean putting relief on both amare and marion on guarding other team's big men, especially someone like duncan or d. howard. let the other big men do the defensive chores and fouling while let amare and marion do the running and scoring, suns basketball at its best

This could be an appropriate explanation but I don't see any indication that D'Antoni will start substituting players in a constant manner just for his 'big guy' to do the dirty work or fouling an opposing teams big men. The only thing that this explanation would work is by putting in a big guy at C along with Amare and Marion to do their thing. But that would mean a little sacrifice at their offense when the Suns need 5 people to execute a play and the big guy you're talking about is left hanging at the opposite court. Should they alter their system instead to accommodate a 'fouling' big guy and discover the effects of half-court offense?

That could work.

though if amare and diaw was at game 5, i pick phoenix winning that game. but still, we don't know what could've happened if they're present.

The Spurs didn't win that in a convincing manner, which leaves a very wide opening that the Spurs are vulnerable enough against the Suns even if there is no Amare or Diaw. But yeah, anything could've happened if Amare and Diaw was there, like still losing the game perhaps.

my point is that, phoenix is short of big men, and they need some, if not to relieve amare, marion and diaw, at least they have some to pick in case, worst comes to worst, the suns will be out of their key players in the paint

Now, i get you. So, I don't have to talk anything about a looming financial catastrophe for the Suns since you just want 'more big men' for them. I see.

though barbosa is another shoot-first-before-pass guard, he's still a good passer as so is diaw

A good passer does not necessarily represent a quality PG or any player. Court vision is what this is all about.

for jason kapono, phoenix could afford him. he was paid very close to $1.2M by miami. a $2.5 or $3M max by phoenix will be reasonable for him

Again, the Suns have to think about signing someone before they end up having a financial instability in the long run.

atkins will never be a part of the suns' long-term plan so he could be disposed next season or two.

This is uncalled for... why would the Suns sign him in the first place when you think he'll never be part of the Suns' long-term plan? Dispose is a strong word for that matter. Kaluoy sad ni Atkins kung ing-ana on lang cya. Ayaw sad oi.

conley is the best PG in the draft, and probably with the highest potential. but steve nash is yet in his prime and is still good for 4-5 or even 6 years. working with steve nash, conley could never be in his highest potential. maybe same story of tracy mcgrady and jermaine o'neal. steve nash is still on the rise and still gets better and better.

And what if Steve Nash gets a career-threatening injury? Will that be prime enough for him to do more of his passing? Conley may never have the quality minutes if he plays alongside Nash, but that's not the necessary reason why I called him a "back-up PG". It's the experience and maturity that Conley will have towards his future with Phoenix and perhaps his tenure in the NBA.

will somebody of conley's potential be patient enough to wait that long to finally break out? maybe yes if phoenix takes care of him. but it would be very unlikely since he'll be so limited

Come on. Anyone can appreciate potential talent here and the longer he plays for the Suns, plus with Steve Nash, he'll mature in no time. And I don't see any "limited" potential in Conley after reading several scouting reports for him. I would respect that if it's your own assessment though.

[makoyvelasco]

This could be an appropriate explanation but I don't see any indication that D'Antoni will start substituting players in a constant manner just for his 'big guy' to do the dirty work or fouling an opposing teams big men. The only thing that this explanation would work is by putting in a big guy at C along with Amare and Marion to do their thing. But that would mean a little sacrifice at their offense when the Suns need 5 people to execute a play and the big guy you're talking about is left hanging at the opposite court. Should they alter their system instead to accommodate a 'fouling' big guy and discover the effects of half-court offense?

That could work.

phoenix offense revolves around steve nash. nash makes everyone around him better. as long as the suns have nash, stoudemire and marion, there'll be no problem in their offense. these big men are role players, they won't have major roles for the suns offense (like kurt thomas).

The Spurs didn't win that in a convincing manner, which leaves a very wide opening that the Spurs are vulnerable enough against the Suns even if there is no Amare or Diaw. But yeah, anything could've happened if Amare and Diaw was there, like still losing the game perhaps.

no amare and no diaw. it was the perfect time for marion to step-up. marion logged 24 points and 17 rebounds in the suns 3-point loss to the spurs. plus kurt thomas had 15 points and 12 rebounds. if stoudemire was in that game, i really doubt if they'll end up with those numbers.

Now, i get you. So, I don't have to talk anything about a looming financial catastrophe for the Suns since you just want 'more big men' for them. I see.

those big men showed mediocre performance last season, and in no way will expect a large sum. what the suns need from them is their experience and large and wide bodies to, if not stop, at least slow down and give other team's big men hard time.

This is uncalled for... why would the Suns sign him in the first place when you think he'll never be part of the Suns' long-term plan? Dispose is a strong word for that matter. Kaluoy sad ni Atkins kung ing-ana on lang cya. Ayaw sad oi.

its business after all. everybody is disposable in the NBA, nobody is safe. players traded, coaches and managers fired. nothing is really certain. why would the suns pick him? because its what they need right now, a PG who could relieve nash, and he's the more reasonable pick in the free agency pool. in the draft, i'd pick a big man over mike conley. it might look like a short-term plan but it's a good long-term plan for the suns. yi or horford, amare, and marion are guys still way beyond their prime. the long-term plan: any of these guys could be traded for a better PG once steve nash will slow down. great analysis for conley. :mrgreen:

And what if Steve Nash gets a career-threatening injury? Will that be prime enough for him to do more of his passing? Conley may never have the quality minutes if he plays alongside Nash, but that's not the necessary reason why I called him a "back-up PG". It's the experience and maturity that Conley will have towards his future with Phoenix and perhaps his tenure in the NBA.

phoenix might consider rebuilding with this

Come on. Anyone can appreciate potential talent here and the longer he plays for the Suns, plus with Steve Nash, he'll mature in no time. And I don't see any "limited" potential in Conley after reading several scouting reports for him. I would respect that if it's your own assessment though.

actually, i never said conley has a 'limited potential', but conley's potential 'will be limited' playing as the 2nd option behind nash. as i said, nash is nowhere going beyond his prime, and is still good for a good number of years. that won't be long enough for conley to wait. well, not unless steve nash will really get a serious career-blowing injury

[fha]

Vince Carter will become free agent in the off-season and yet he is still looking for $60 million over a three-year extension

wooow !!! paying a player for $20M per season who disappears in crunch time... No way....

20m is too big for vinsanity....any takers? hmmmmmmmmm

[makoyvelasco]

20m is too big for vinsanity....any takers? hmmmmmmmmm

$20M? that's a lot. VC is actually on player option this offseason, and if he decides to stay with the nets, he'll be recieving $16.36M. not unless teams are willing to take the risk of ala timberwolves-kevin garnett deal years ago.

if he'll not end up with the nets, probable VC takers will be the clippers, sonics, hawks, kings or even the hornets and bobcats. these teams are way below the salary cap.

but worse come to worse, carter might end up some sort of latrell sprewell.. . nobody signed him back after asking for too much, but it would be so unlikely for vince

[makoyvelasco]

things i look out for in 2007-08 season

1. memphis grizzlies--pau gasol is back 100%, memphis will most likely end up with either greg oden or kevin durant. with mike miller, rudy gay, and hakim warrick, memphis is looking at a bright future. this could be another cinderella story for the grizzlies, and nothing less than the 1998 san antonio spurs turn-around when david robinson returned from injury and got tim duncan in the lottery pick.

what the grizzlies need? a good PG. chucky atkins is in the free agency list while damon stoudamire is way beyond his prime. send stromile swift somewhere else for a good PG. a little uncertainty for the grizzlies though: maybe pau gasol will opt out of memphis

2. kevin garnett--will he stay for another year, or will he finally look somewhere else? probably its enough for someone of KG's caliber playing for a mediocre team. where will he land? KG is not getting any younger and its time that he'll be thinking of winning a title. dallas? lakers?

3. phoenix suns--4th overall pick in the draft for a team that ended up 61-21. who will they take?

4. new york knicks--rumors has it, jermaine o'neal wants to play for the knicks. JO could be the missing piece in the knicks puzzle which is overloaded with guards. the knicks could unload steve francis and quentin richardson to accomodate o'neal. o'neal and curry with marbury, crawford and rising stars david lee and channing frye. the knicks are looking good. just hoping injuries won't hit JO.

5. tyson chandler--chandler have started to live up to everybody's expectations about him last season with the hornets, and more of him for the 2007-08 season. this will be chandler's break out season, especially now that peja and david west is 100%

6. detroit pistons--uncertainty hits detroit. chauncey billups, antonio mcdyess and ronald murray are all free agents in the offseason. since ben wallace left, the pistons are no better. chris webber was hardly a factor in the playoffs while rasheed wallace is slowly slowing down. bright spots for detroit is richard hamilton, tayshaun prince and the jason maxiell. the pistons is made up of mostly veterans who are way beyond their prime.

7. lebron james, dwight howard, chris bosh, gilbert arenas--with the pistons aging, this is the time for the east to have a new king. who will it be?

[lunateec22]

phoenix offense revolves around steve nash. nash makes everyone around him better. as long as the suns have nash, stoudemire and marion, there'll be no problem in their offense. these big men are role players, they won't have major roles for the suns offense (like kurt thomas).

You just said it. IN that case, why would you say these 'big men' won't have any major role in the Suns' offense if Nash indeed makes everyone around him better? 15 and 12 is a step up for a guy like Kurt Thomas. I can see no problem on that one. He did step up.

no amare and no diaw. it was the perfect time for marion to step-up. marion logged 24 points and 17 rebounds in the suns 3-point loss to the spurs. plus kurt thomas had 15 points and 12 rebounds. if stoudemire was in that game, i really doubt if they'll end up with those numbers.

I saw the box score.

those big men showed mediocre performance last season, and in no way will expect a large sum. what the suns need from them is their experience and large and wide bodies to, if not stop, at least slow down and give other team's big men hard time

And there's no way to sign them up if they performed mediocre performance last season. Kurt Thomas proved that he is no slouch and can contribute to the Suns as well as performing well other than those big men you mentioned. And for that matter, signing someone else is not necessary since the Suns actually found their way through everything, if only not for Amare and Diaw's suspension, they could've went through the Spurs.

its business after all. everybody is disposable in the NBA, nobody is safe. players traded, coaches and managers fired. nothing is really certain. why would the suns pick him? because its what they need right now, a PG who could relieve nash,

Barbosa is Nash' reliever and Barbosa's even better than Atkins. Additionally, I know it's business but it would be dumb for them to sign Atkins for like 2-3 years and just dump him it's because he doesn't fit in the Suns' system. If we're talking about short-term here, it would be fine to sign Atkins for a year but it's really unlikely (it sounded like you want them to sign Atkins for 2-3 years), and for long-term case, Conley.

but conley's potential 'will be limited' playing as the 2nd option behind nash. as i said, nash is nowhere going beyond his prime, and is still good for a good number of years. that won't be long enough for conley to wait.

3-4 years is not that long since Conley will be learning a lot from Nash. He'll be the one to continue the firepower of the Suns since Amare and Barbosa would still be in that time.

well, not unless steve nash will really get a serious career-blowing injury

And just like you said, anything can happen. If Nash gets struck by lightning this year (simbako lang!), are you sure it's good enough for your Atkins to step in? Heck... Barbosa is Nash's reliever and he's actually more familiar with the Suns' offense than Atkins.

20m is too big for vinsanity....any takers? hmmmmmmmmm

20m is not that big since it will depend on how many years ang contract. And Carter is way too good than Spree. I can see Charlotte or Orlando having that salary cap for a guy like Vince.

[makoyvelasco]

You just said it. IN that case, why would you say these 'big men' won't have any major role in the Suns' offense if Nash indeed makes everyone around him better?

thats exactly why phoenix can pick these guys because they have steve nash. and in the first place the very reason why they're picked is to play defense. they are able bodied and wide big men, you dont need skills to play defense

I saw the box score.

so that means with amare, marion and thomas will not have those numbers. the game would still likely be close.

And there's no way to sign them up if they performed mediocre performance last season. Kurt Thomas proved that he is no slouch and can contribute to the Suns as well as performing well other than those big men you mentioned. And for that matter, signing someone else is not necessary since the Suns actually found their way through everything, if only not for Amare and Diaw's suspension, they could've went through the Spurs.

and that suspension too is a message that the suns is in need of big men. again, it won't take skilled players too play defense, just heart. plus there's no assurance kurt thomas will still play for the suns this season, and if he will, age is catching up with him

Barbosa is Nash' reliever and Barbosa's even better than Atkins. Additionally, I know it's business but it would be dumb for them to sign Atkins for like 2-3 years and just dump him it's because he doesn't fit in the Suns' system. If we're talking about short-term here, it would be fine to sign Atkins for a year but it's really unlikely (it sounded like you want them to sign Atkins for 2-3 years), and for long-term case, Conley.

3-4 years is not that long since Conley will be learning a lot from Nash. He'll be the one to continue the firepower of the Suns since Amare and Barbosa would still be in that time.

there's no doubt mike conley is the better choice. but possibly ending up at 5th-10th pick overall, that's big. conley is a good investment for the suns, but can he wait that long? 3-4 years is actually long to break out, especially when you're a top pick. not unless if he'll have the patience

And just like you said, anything can happen. If Nash gets struck by lightning this year (simbako lang!), are you sure it's good enough for your Atkins to step in? Heck... Barbosa is Nash's reliever and he's actually more familiar with the Suns' offense than Atkins.

even with conley, suns will be entering the rebuilding mode once nash gets a serious injury. let the suns take the best pick they can take on the draft, and lets just say nash will be having this career blowing injury. now they've got guys whom they can send away for better and experienced PG. conley is a good pick for the suns, but there are players in the draft way better than him that the suns could pick

20m is not that big since it will depend on how many years ang contract. And Carter is way too good than Spree. I can see Charlotte or Orlando having that salary cap for a guy like Vince.

carter recieved a little over $15M in 2006-07, and if he opts to stay with the nets for the 2007-08, he'll end end up with a little over $16.3M. reasonable enough, the $20M will just be for a season, and with vince, its way too much. VC has really never had proven much. carter is looking for a solid team. orlando maybe a good choice for him.