The Roman Catholic Church~ Questions

[SyniTh]

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[QUOTE=noy;14224147]

i think you are referring to SELF-RIGHTEOUS people..i think we can both agree that no matter how we sugar coat our inner thoughts and desire with being self-righteous...mugawas jud na ang tinuod.
so kanang mga self righteous bai, di na magdugay ang pagka buotan...ingun pa nila..way aso makumkom..

when i say exceptional Christian Life, i am referring to those people who actually walked the talk.
we are talking about people giving up their lives for the gospel and for others.
people who had been martyrd for the sake of others knowing the gospel of Christ.
Yes true enough that Faith in God will determine our Salvation, BUT how is FAITH determined?
of course through good works STILL. alangan man pud ug muingun ko nga Love kaau nako si Lord then perting manyaka nako..hihihi...can i still be considered faithful? of course not diba?

Agree sir.

i agree with the verse 100%.Evil people can still do goodworks but with evil desires and intentions.i think that is what the verse was trying to say, otherwise, the bible wouldn't have this verse written in James 2:17
"Faith without action is a dead faith"

regarding being religious, i agree that being religious would not pave our way to salvation...especially if our being religious is not done out of worship for the ALmighty and not done out of Love for others but out of somrthing else..worse if its done to please others or simply just to appear religious.
BUT we also cannot rule out being religious as not all religious are posers and fakers.

Certainly.

now when you described being religious as "making our own ways of worshipping God"
can you please elaborate on that? if you are referring to RCC practices..

If a person is religious;traditionally religious, it does not automatically mean that we are Godly.

We have so many religious practices and tradition that mislead people into thinking that
"if i do this and that, I'm already religious therefore i am already saved."
"i think my good works is heavier that my bad works now so if God weighs it, so i can go to heaven"
"simba sa ko para matabonanan ako bad works" I had these mindset for years but we have a religious orientation and devotion. I realized that as i read my bible, this is not what is taught. Its the way of Christ and his finished work. The exchange of his perfect record, into my sinful record. If you believe. But, most are mislead into thinking that it is through the "traditional, good works way". But never this way based on the Bible.

i think there would be a need for you to do a little research on how these practices came to place and what are the Biblical references about these practices...

I don't have a problem with such practices as long as it is taken into heart and understood that "these practices doesn't save me, these are simply worship"; however, amongst the millions who practice it, do they really understand? or they are simply misled into thinking that "its through this that i can be saved and go to heaven".

Again i quote from Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" MOST FILIPINOS WILL HEAR THIS IN BEFORE GOD IF WE DON'T TELL THEM THAT THE WAY IS CHRIST ALONE, NOT MY RELIGIOSITY. I don't want that to happen. That is why i have devoted myself into sharing the Gospel to people who doesn't really understand the Christianity of the bible.

and if you are going to be black and white about how God is worshipped based on how you and your church/denomination understand what's written on the Bible...aren't we also at the same time...condemning others?

Of course not sir. Im not trying to condem. But to teach or even to rebuke with the authority of the bible.

How about those people who never got the chance to know Jesus?but led a good life?
how about others from another religion but led a good and loving life? are they doomed?
The way of Christ is to Love with no boundaries..

Its not for me to know. I'm not the Judge, but what i know is that if Christ is not in their lives, then they will be in a Christ less eternity.

when we accuse the RCC for worshipping idols, creating other means for salvation etc...
is that the way of Christ?

No sir. But should I ignore misled Filipinos to come into a saving faith? Surly i won't. Jesus saved all of us. Its the good news of the bible. That Christ the Messiah as prophesied in the old testament came. That where my faith is founded. But sadly, most major on tradition and etc which is only the minor in comparison to faithful reading and studying of Gods word. In comparison to prayer and worship for us to grow more in the Lord.

i used the term accuse because as an RC, i know and believe that our DOCTRINE of the Catholic Church
never in any way said that Jesus is never enough and that we should worship Mary or any other Saints.
of course it is so easy to depict idolatry and other things towards RCC if you are not Catholic..
'cause you simply have different POVs, interpretatitons...
in the same way we easily question things we don't understand..may unta ug question lang...ang kuyaw if we make it absolute..
like how the others see us.

I trying to question things to provoke forumers to really dig deeper into God's Word which is the bible alone.

To the istoryans, READ YOUR BIBLES. PLEASE. OR JOIN A BIBLE STUDY GROUP. Don't settle on tradition and opinions of men as the basis of your faith. Challenge every practice and always ask "is this really found in the bible?"

i belive you misunderstood my point. you are taking it from your POV,
i have never said in any way that Christ is NOT enough.
is having others pray for us means Jesus is not enough?

sus bai, again you misunderstood me about comparing us with the Departed Saints
when i said they are even more alive than us today...what i was trying to say is that
by examining their lives would you really think that we and those guys are just equal?
are we able to throw all our wealth and give to them to the poor?kiss the leper's wounds perhaps?St.Francis of Assisi did..

When you become a Christian, whether you are poor or rich, young or old, a missionary or an employee, we are of the same standing before God. Why? because our righteousness is no longer based on our performance, but again, on Christ's finished work. Some may be called to be of higher calling like being a pastor,a reverend,a church leader or a bible teacher but as long as you are faithful to the ministry that God has called you to do, even if you are serving as a utility man in a company, it will still be a pleasing aroma unto the Lord. Because God looks on our hearts. Not on the hierarchy of our social position.

now considering my example, me being just a regular Christian forumer...
and a Priest, who is also a missionary and at the same time who is also a Doctor of the Church...
asa ka mag pa ampo ug una? ug una ha? 'cause it doesnt mean nga sa mga ngilngig ra ta mag pa ampo...

and do you really think those departed Saints can kiss a leper? or perhaps go through martyrdom and persecution
on thier own?
i think you would understand this more if you would do a reserch about the Life of the Saints..
you may wanna start with St. Augustine.
and tell me if those people just doing things on their own without God's Spirit.

Certainly, but its still between them and God. Its not for us to know whether they have God's spirit. For me personally, Im convinced that some saints are really saints. I don't know about others though. But should i spend time so much time reading about them and learning more and doing festivals for them? Id rather simply praise God for their lives since it's God power who is at work in their lives. Make their stories as my inspirations maybe, and continue on focusing on Christ as the greatest example and the greatest saint the God who is the master. I won't praise the masterpiece. But the master.

I know St. Augustine. I love him. And i love reading about him sir.

Salvation wise, everyone is equal..diba naa na sa Bible?prehas ra ug sweldo ang nagsugod ug sayo ug ang dugay as long as nihuman lang..

Yes sir this is what i meant by equal.
Equal standing because of Christ.

kung wala pay Level ang atong spirituality bai, we wouldn't have Priests,Pastors, Spiritual Fathers...
spiritual counselor etc? ug wala na unta tay mga pangutana kabahin anang mga butanga kung prehas ra tag Spirituality tanan...

Not this kind of level of spirituality. We misunderstood each other.

Yes, indeed whoever is in Christ is a new creation and for that we can consider ourselves Saints...
BUT have we reached the fullness of that sainthood already? of course wala pa kay on and off paman atong connection sa Ginoo
diba? sahay santos kaau to sunod napud murag di kaayo santos...
meaning while we are on this earth we are still subject to SIN, and every breath we take is a battle.
mao bitaw nang way Santos nga buhi..hehehehe

There are many genuine Christians today and They are alive. According to the bible.

even those people who led an exceptional Christ-like lives...will not get the fullness of that sainthood
'cause they are still subject to Sin..
mao anha na ang pag examine diha kung venarable ba cla as blessed and i canonized dayun as Saint
(pls refer to the link i posted previously for the canonization process)

in other words, we are all saints in a way when we accepted and strive hard to follow the footsteps of Jesus
that's why we can pray over others etc
BUT to gain the fullness of it mao nang canonization..

(i wouldn't expect you to believe that process kay di man ka Catholic, but at least consider it as sacred kay mao na ang paagi gi reveal sa Ginoo sa amu..feel free to search and study about it though)
and by the term fullness, we also believe that they are already in Heaven with God and can continue their intercession for us
so technically that separates the talking to the saints from witchcraft and occultism

Okay sir. So this is what canonization is about. Im learning.

had a friend who already passed, he was a priest,,he too led a very Christ-like life...
if ako lang pabut.on Santos na to siya..and yes he is technically but dili lang canonized.
mao dili lang usa ko mo pa pray niya kay perhaps naa pa siya sa cleansing process...
so i pray for him instead.


Thanks for the will wishes. however those may be what the Bible says but STILL not free from personal interpretation.

I'm not trying to interpret in from my own personal or even denominational POV. I base it on my convictions from the holy spirit in the 4 years that i have become a christian.

To end, here are verses that might help us understand.

Rom 1:18-23 "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles."

Might as well read the 5 solas of the Christian faith. These are basics, and these are the things that makes you a Christian.

God bless us all. Worship the one and true living God in spirit and in truth. "He is not a God created by human hands, He is not a God dependent on any mortal man."

I learned so much father. And i do love you and am praying for you. God bless.

[SyniTh]

Here I am to worship..... one of my favorite gospel music bro!

Duha na ta bai.

[noy]

If you are in Christ, you now have an access to God's throne of grace. In Heb 4:14-15 we read that since Christ is our great high priest, we can now draw to him personally. "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. "

The saints which you are referring to doesn't have a "VIP access to God". I think most Filipinos have the mentality that " Ang Saints kay mas doul na sila sa Ginoo, so kung naa kay request ato ipa.agi nila". Which is wrong because Christ is our great High priest that mediates it to God. And it is only through him that we can come to God's throne.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be other intercessors. Intercession and praying for each other is always true and biblical.

Let me illustrate it this way.

When we pray with Christ as mediator it is.... From you to God, Through Christ as the mediator.
When we let others pray for us it is..... For your brother to God, Through Christ as the mediator. This is what it means by praying for each other. That's the reason why we always say it the end of our prayers "in Christ's name we pray, Amen"

But, if we pray to saints, its.... From you to God, Through the saint.

Now to your question, Does asking others (which you mean the saints) to pray for us to the Lord our God considered another way? Yes. Because Christ now doesn't become the only way.



Yes, the bible have teachings about praying for each other. But not prayers that is mediated by men like us na instruments ra pd ni Christ.

clearly you have a different interpretation and understanding about praying for others
and a different POV about having Saints pray for us..
which obviously you would have a hard time accepting or perhaps would never do
simply becasue you are not catholic. if you truly seek to understand why we do these things.
Feel free to search from Catholic websites and references instead of those sites and references that opposes these practices
'cause you would definitely see things what you want to see.

in the main time you may wanna check this link out:Prayers to Saints: to God?s Most Gracious Advocates

[Breakeven]

mangutana ko bi

ngano mag dagkot man gyud ug kandila?

specific bro para asa kay gamit baya sad ang kandila during brownout

[noy]

Duha na ta bai.

actually tulo ta!

[slabdans]

pwedi ko mangutana ani?

Gwapo ba si Jesus?

[noy]

Tubag nasad ko bai ha...hihihi

Agree sir.

Certainly.

If a person is religious;traditionally religious, it does not automatically mean that we are Godly.

and it doesn't also mean that if a person is traditionally religious, that person is NOT Godly..again, we are not talking about posers and fakers.
i'm not even a traditional person but i don't see anything wrong with the RC church's religious traditions at least not until i understood what they meant..Like you, there was a time in the past that i thought that all the RC church's tradition doesn't mean anything..ESPECIALLY asking help from the Saints...
i even hated religious people and the Church...even reached a time that i hated God too(own and invalid reasons of course..hehehe) so believe me when i say its not really what you think it is..hehehehe

We have so many religious practices and tradition that mislead people into thinking that
"if i do this and that, I'm already religious therefore i am already saved."
"i think my good works is heavier that my bad works now so if God weighs it, so i can go to heaven"

again, not talking about posers and fakers.
'cause if one has a genuine faith in Christ..that faith is gonna burst out like atomic bomb and you can't help but to show it...How? through actions...
sadly, you are generalizing the religious people and associating them with hypocrites..tsk tsk tsk...

"simba sa ko para matabonanan ako bad works" I had these mindset for years but we have a religious orientation and devotion. I realized that as i read my bible, this is not what is taught. Its the way of Christ and his finished work. The exchange of his perfect record, into my sinful record. If you believe. But, most are mislead into thinking that it is through the "traditional, good works way". But never this way based on the Bible.

sorry bai, i think that it is you who have been misled by your interpretaion on what's written on the Bible.
Do you honestly think and believe that the Catholic Church teaches it's ok to sin as long as you back it up with religious pratices and all that jazz?
and that faith is no Good...we just gotta do good and it's all good?and that Jesus is not enough?
Do you even know why we are doing these things?
like i said bro, if you really wanna know why we do these things,historically and traditionally?...you may wanna try researching from our POV instead of visiting sites,blogs of favorable ideals..
of course that's what your church group tells you. perhaps what your pastors do too...NOT because they are trying to create a bad image about the RC but because that's your orientation...
would you ask a Filipino teacher to solve a math problem?

I don't have a problem with such practices as long as it is taken into heart and understood that "these practices doesn't save me, these are simply worship"; however, amongst the millions who practice it, do they really understand? or they are simply misled into thinking that "its through this that i can be saved and go to heaven".

naa ra man diay na, every heart has its own mind and understanding about God...no matter what the church or others say...some do it as an act of worhsip and thanksgiving for what God has done through Jesus...others do it because of some other reason...
Do not acuse the RC Church if someone has got a twisted idea about these things as each person is accountable with his/her own actions...
if a priest does not practice what he preach...does that mean that the denomination where that priest belongs is also a faker? we both know that tanan nga denomination ug tanan nga pagtuo...naa juy kolokoy nasagol...should the Church/denomination should get the blame?

diba famous kaau ni nga line? oh RC whorship idols and they think that Jesus is not enough that's why they have a lot of mediators even though the Bible has been very specific against it...
1. Do you see the hearts of those people who light a candle? pahid2x sa mga santos? luhod padulong sa altar sa church?
2.Do you know why they're doing it?
4. Do you know them personally?like they are when they're not in the church?
3. Do you know about the historical facts about these practices?
4.are you sure that it really is IDOLATRY?and an insult to Christ's power of salvation?
not according to how you interpret the bible,not according to how it has been taught in your church
BUT in an aboslute sense..

Again i quote from Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

therefore the RC church is doomed?
bro, this message could be intended for anybody..we can only hope we're not one of them...

'" MOST FILIPINOS WILL HEAR THIS IN BEFORE GOD IF WE DON'T TELL THEM THAT THE WAY IS CHRIST ALONE, NOT MY RELIGIOSITY. I don't want that to happen. That is why i have devoted myself into sharing the Gospel to people who doesn't really understand the Christianity of the bible.

i'm surprised how you believe in Christ's way and at the same time is so confident to place judgement on others.
anyway i should give you a credit for your devotion.Kudos to you!

Of course not sir. Im not trying to condem. But to teach or even to rebuke with the authority of the bible.

on the process esp with that kind of thinking...you just did.
you don't even know half about what RC traditions mean and why people are doing them..
i am not saying that all RC know evrything about the traditions..and yes i admit some are even lost in thinking that traditions are more important than faith in Christ(faith that is seen in action). BUT to label the RC church and its teaching the way you just did..
esp with the matthew verse you qouted towards us(RC, as we know most of the Filipinos are RC)...i don't see Love but judgement. sorry

Its not for me to know. I'm not the Judge, but what i know is that if Christ is not in their lives, then they will be in a Christ less eternity.

that's what you know and understand..are you sure that is also what God has in mind? what does the Bible say about God's love and mercy?

No sir. But should I ignore misled Filipinos to come into a saving faith? Surly i won't. Jesus saved all of us. Its the good news of the bible. That Christ the Messiah as prophesied in the old testament came. That where my faith is founded. But sadly, most major on tradition and etc which is only the minor in comparison to faithful reading and studying of Gods word. In comparison to prayer and worship for us to grow more in the Lord.

sus bro, wa jud tawn ko nagkiglalis bahin sa gahum sa Ginoo...wa lang ka kasabut nganu naa ning mga RC practices...ug kung naa man gani kay nakuha nga nga explanation before or even karun...basin di lang ka kadawat...ayg kalimut...hasta ang mga Di mutoo ug Ginoo naa pud clay proof para nila nga way Ginoo...
so don't be too confident about what you know and understand...hinalbi na nga ang RC can trace apostolic succession which means it is a religion that can trace it's roots up to the apostles themselves...specifically the apostle Peter. the Bible talked about traditions to followed by the church members, traditions either given by Letter of word of mouth...feel free to search for that verse..

I trying to question things to provoke forumers to really dig deeper into God's Word which is the bible alone.

can you find "Holy Trinity" in the Bible
do you see anywhere in the bible how specifically we are to reach out for the people who don't know Jesus yet?

To the istoryans, READ YOUR BIBLES. PLEASE. OR JOIN A BIBLE STUDY GROUP. Don't settle on tradition and opinions of men as the basis of your faith. Challenge every practice and always ask "is this really found in the bible?"

yeah including you my friend. Don't settle with what you learned in your denomination about RCC and its practices and traditions..Kudos on reading the Bible and joining bible group studies though...just make sure you're not mixed up with fundies...(both ways, each religion,faith and denomination have FUNDIES).

When you become a Christian, whether you are poor or rich, young or old, a missionary or an employee, we are of the same standing before God. Why? because our righteousness is no longer based on our performance, but again, on Christ's finished work. Some may be called to be of higher calling like being a pastor,a reverend,a church leader or a bible teacher but as long as you are faithful to the ministry that God has called you to do, even if you are serving as a utility man in a company, it will still be a pleasing aroma unto the Lord. Because God looks on our hearts. Not on the hierarchy of our social position.

again bro, wala juy nagkig lalis nimu bahin sa GAHUM sa atong GINOO..and again you missed my point..
mao bitaw ingun ko SALVATION wise...we are equal...but atong reality dinhi sa earth esp with spirituality...dili ta equal tanan...and call it whatever you want...a higher calling or unsa...some are called to serve for salvation...
some are being served to be saved..dinha pa lang daan kita na kaayo nato nga lahi2x ta ug level sa atong spiritualidad.

Certainly, but its still between them and God. Its not for us to know whether they have God's spirit. For me personally, Im convinced that some saints are really saints. I don't know about others though. But should i spend time so much time reading about them and learning more and doing festivals for them? Id rather simply praise God for their lives since it's God power who is at work in their lives. Make their stories as my inspirations maybe, and continue on focusing on Christ as the greatest example and the greatest saint the God who is the master. I won't praise the masterpiece. But the master.

wala ka kasuway bro nga minghanga ka ug usa ka precher? in a way nga grabe ang manisfestation sa power of the Holy Spirit sa iya? that is of the same concept..are you praising the masterpiece na ana?
you are praising God through what He has done through that person.
bai, by what you said festivals and other saints if they're legit or unsa pa na...
ingun pa sa Bible diba? the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks...i'm not sure ha but if you really wanna understand nganu naay mga santos,pa ampo sa mga santos....like what you said, DON'tsettle with traditions! as i see it...you see Catholics in a traditional protestant way..

I know St. Augustine. I love him. And i love reading about him sir.

Me too!!!...i'm surprised you called Him Saint, and you said you love him and love reading about him..
isn't that one of the reasons why most of the protestant call us idolaters...'cause we love those who loved Christ our God and His church?
i know what you mean though...just saying...

by the way, ayaw lang pag sir bai kay mura man kag others..hahaha...prehas ra ta forumer.

There are many genuine Christians today and They are alive. According to the bible.

how about the canonized Saints? are they dead in the Spirit? what do you think they are doing right now?
Having a good time? hehehe...
the Bible teaches that heaven would rejoice even a single repentant soul over 99 who doesn't need repenting...
the phrase rejoicing in Heaven...what does that picture out? i think it pictures out a whole heavenly team interceeding and praying for people...which also pictures out that the whole team is aware about the happenings on earth..

I'm not trying to interpret in from my own personal or even denominational POV. I base it on my convictions from the holy spirit in the 4 years that i have become a christian.

Good for you.
however i hope you're not saying that you're the only one who have convictions from the HS
kudos to you! you've spent 4 years and still have a long way to go..

Might as well read the 5 solas of the Christian faith. These are basics, and these are the things that makes you a Christian.

i know about them and as a Catholic i acnkowledge and believe in them.. just not Literally.
and on top of that...the 5 solas are not even found in the bible..hihihi(just humoring you bai)

please see this link to see the other side of the coin
about the Solas.. The Five "Solas" - Catholic Bible 101

Rom 1:18-23 "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles."

para na sa mga Catholics bai?
if so, are you sure para ra ni sa mga Catholics?

God bless us all. Worship the one and true living God in spirit and in truth. "He is not a God created by human hands, He is not a God dependent on any mortal man."

wala lagi nagkiglalis ani bai...Lol

[noy]

pwedi ko mangutana ani?

Gwapo ba si Jesus?

Lol gwapo jud guro si Jesus Slabs...

[slabdans]

Lol gwapo jud guro si Jesus Slabs...

dili di ie sure bai noy? naa may guro hehehe

[noy]

OT:well mas maayo kung si Jovi atong pangutan.on kay naka face to face to siya sa Ginoo...