The Roman Catholic Church~ Questions

[SioDenz]

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i guess most people have hard time understanding Interpretation from comprehension..

Because some People have also a hard time Explaining what is interpretation and what is Bible based. Nya lain lain explanation pero same rag religion.

[SioDenz]

maypa gisulti sa bible naay musacrifice as pag.antos para ta maluwas ug deli magpakamatay para ta maluwas as what the bible said..

Ultimate Sacrifice sa Tawhanung Level ang Kamatayun. Mao ang Dios nagpakatawo para ma level siya sa tawhanung panabot ug tawhanung reasoning. But nabanhaw siya as God para mapakita sa tawo nga Di diay siya tawo kundi Dios nga nipaubos sa tawhanung level.

[blackdream]

Sa ako lang ha, As Catholic or I don’t know sa uban nga mga relihiyon kung nituo ba sila nga si Jesus (Dios Anak).

Nan, dili jd pwede nga maka pa duol ang Dios sa Taw o magpakita sa iyang nawng ngadto sa Tawo. Remember ni Moses mancguro to, pero naa koy ihatag nga verse sa bible (20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.” ) Exodus. Sa akong pagsabut kung ang tawo makasasala ug makakita siya sa Dios, mamatay jd siya. Mao nang iyang gipakatawo ang iyang Anak (Jesus) para maka-sulti siya sa mga tawo directly dili usa ka Dios kundili Tawo. Nag pakamatay siya para masaksihan sa mga tawo ang iyang pagka-Dios ug pagkamakagagahum sibo sa iyang gisulti nga mabanhaw siya ug aron ang mga tawo mo tuo niya. So ang pagsakripisyo, anaa sa iyang pagpas-an ug krus ug paglansang kaniya.

Siguro ang point rajud ani nga mutuo ta niya nga nagsakripisyo ug nagpakamatay. Ug ang “Pagtuo” mao nay makaluwas nato.

[noy]

mao na ako question bro..

nagpakatao para mamatay but in the end wala man jud namatay kay nabanhaw man..

so asa man ang sacrifice ana?..

hi sis,
if i may, hehe
Christ's resurrection serves many purpose, one could be a proof that He is who He claim He was..
perhaps a Display of His power or an example to what would happen to a Christian faithful on the last day..
His Death has only One purpose though, for our salvation.
we can trace the sacrifice-atonement Law in OT that for Sins to be atoned it requires a sacrifice.

Because of God's Love For us, it has come to a point that Jesus had to come and die as the sacrifice as for mankind to be saved
so great is our sin that it requires a prefect sacrifice.

Jesus did die, otherwise resurrection wouldn't have came in the picture.
in order for one to resurrect, one has to die first.
therefore Jesus did die as human,as "the sacrifice" but Rose again in His true nature which is as God

now to add a bit about resurrection, i know the bible said and the Christian faith
afirms the resurrection of the faithful or those who belong to God
it doesnt mean that the people who will resurrect on the last day will resurrect as God as well..
for whoever will resurrect on that day, will not and cannot resurrect by themselves BUT only through God's power
apart from Sin, that makes Jesus God.

[acescream]

however i was a bit impressed with the greek knowledge only because i have not studied Greek myself
But i think i don't have to know greek to understand whether Jesus is God or not.

3rd, How sure are you that your claims and understanding about the greek translations?
can you say it is more reliable than those scholars who compiled it?
or the Church Scholars and Doctors perhaps?

yes bai noy no need that's why the Bible has been translated to English. All it takes is knowing the original language used in the scrolls.
The original language of the Gospel of John is in ancient Greek, so it wasn't translated in Greek.

-"In ordinary, non-technical Greek, logos had a semantic field extending beyond "word" to notions such as language, talk, statement, speech, conversation, tale, story, prose, proposition, and principle; and also thought, reason, account, consideration, esteem, due relation, proportion, and analogy.[1]"
-"Early New Testament manuscripts did not distinguish upper and lower case...."
Logos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Long before the compilation of the Bible, Long before Catholicism and the greek writings of the new testament translated
Jesus already claimed to be God.

^where in the Bible? if it's not in the Bible, it's a mans teaching:

Matthew 15:9 - "They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men." New International Version (©1984)

For the Scriptures itself is enough for teaching the truth:

2 Timothy 3:16 - "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right." New Living Translation (©2007)

First, why do you think the Jews had Jesus crucified?

The Jews can't accept a messiah from their own which, Jesus is born a Jew(Hebrews 7:14) and is a rabbi(jewish teacher, so he is very knowledgeable with Judaism), is always breaking the Jewish traditions for ex Matthew 15:1-20("...Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!...")
And with Jesus always breaking Jewish tradition, the Jews thought he is claiming to be God for he's easily breaking the Jewish rules & traditions.

Well in fact, giklaro ni Jesus himself kung unsa siya para dili siya
ma-misunderstood, that he is not God:

Matthew 24:36 - "..but now you seek to kill me, a MAN who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did." English Standard Version (©2001)

^isn't it absurd to hear it from God if you are God himself? he shouldn't have said this if from the start he was claiming to be God.

For God will NEVER EVER become a man:

Genesis 6:3 - "Then the LORD said, “My Spirit SHALL NOT ABIDE IN MAN FOREVER, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years."" English Standard Version (©2001)

and will not even become a son of man:

Numbers 23:19 - "God is not man, that he should lie, or a SON OF MAN, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" English Standard Version (©2001)

and Jesus frequently called himself a son of man:

Luke 7:31-35 - "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by all her children.” New International Version
(^people saw him eating, and even drinking wine)

and God doesn't eat nor drink:

Psalm 50:9-13 - "I have no need of a bull from your stall
or of goats from your pens...Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats?"

^think about this please.

So Jesus never claimed to be God, for he never will. The reason why the Jews crucified him was they couldn't believe Jesus
is the foretold messiah for they see him not fit for the it, and he is breaking Jewish traditions here & there.

2nd...
He could've clarified it that He is not the messiah...

Jesus is the Messiah bai noy, hence the name Jesus Christ:

Christ (/kraɪst/) (ancient Greek: Χριστός, Christós, meaning 'anointed') is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), the Messiah, and is used as a title for Jesus in the New Testament.[3] Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


and messiah doesn't mean God:

messiah - the promised and expected deliverer of the Jewish people. Messiah | Define Messiah at Dictionary.com

..and that He never claimed to be God

yep, he said he was just a man:

Matthew 24:36 - "..but now you seek to kill me, a MAN who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did." English Standard Version (©2001)

...or that He was just a teacher or a prophet sent by God.

indeed:

John 17:3 - "And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom YOU HAVE SENT." English Standard Version (©2001)

and i think there is nothing wrong with clarifying statements.
John the Baptist was even depicted to be the promised savior but he clarified it diba?

yes sir you are right, he even quoted Isaih 40:3 as the fulfillment of that prophecy.

Jesus even clarified there is only one true God, and he was sent by Him:

John 17:3 - "And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom YOU HAVE SENT." English Standard Version (©2001)

would someone really be willing to die for a lie or a misunderstanding?i don't think so

even though Jesus didn't lie for he didn't sin(2 Corinthians 5:21), he is still willing to die even if he was misunderstood. That's how great
our Lord Jesus Christ is. The reason for dying on the cross? He died for his church, his body:

Acts 20:28 - ""Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has
appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood." Lamsa Translation

others would even lie to live..hehehe

that's why even though he is not God, i look up to him. He's the best man out there that no man can be equal with. You can even feel his genuine love
knowing that he is not God, just a very humble man that died for the sake of the people most of them he even doesn't know..now that's true love <3

BUT if He was, how come He was very consistent and taught with authority esp about Love and Salvation?

Matthew 24:36 - "..but now you seek to kill me, a MAN who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did." English Standard Version (©2001)

He heard the truth from God..he didn't hear it himself. Very clearly, there are two of them(the one where he heard the truth from, and the one who heard the truth.)

When Jesus was crucified He made no attempt in refuting and even made it more clearer to the Jewish Priest about His claims

yes bai noy, what can you do against an angry mob? what you will be saying is useless against many angry Jews. Jesus knows that the time when he will surely die will
definitely come, for it was already written. He even felt afraid, and prayed asking God to spare him if He will permit:

Matthew 26:39 - "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." New International Version
^he prayed this 3 times.

4th, if the Christian Bible was wrong about Jesus being God, or if the idea about Jesus being God
is just a twisted political tactics for Romans to gain popularity.
why on earth would they do that? when they are even winning over the early followers of Jesus in numbers and power even in almost all aspects..except for the salvation part
they have executed and killed Christians, fed them to the Lions, hanged and crucified..
even almost all of Jesus' disciples except for John were martyrd. even the apostle paul himself.
the question really is what could they have gained by converting to Christianity? and twisting the Greek translations in favor of Jesus to be God?
when they are very capable in iliminating all remaining Christians at that time ug human ilang problema sa religious rivals..
for power? isn't rome one of the most powerful nations at that time? or at least a lot and more powerful compared with
early followers of Christ.

hala grabe taas2x baya subayonon ani sa history bai noy hehehe. Taas jud nig maayo ako post.

"it all started from Emperor Constantine the Great(was Roman Emperor from 306 to 337), the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity(got baptized only at his deathbed),[notes 4] Constantine and co-Emperor Licinius issued the Edict of Milan in 313, which proclaimed tolerance of all religions throughout the empire."
Constantine the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For before his reign, Rome was in turmoil, their was war between those that practiced Christianity and pagans:

"The war against the Jews during Nero's reign, which so destabilised the empire that it led to civil war and Nero's suicide provided an additional rationale for suppression of this 'Jewish' sect." History of Rome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So in order for peace in the Roman Empire during his reign, Emperor Constantine the Great unified Rome through his declaration:

"In February 313, Constantine met with Licinius in Milan, where they developed the Edict of Milan. The edict stated that Christians should be allowed to follow the faith without oppression." Constantine the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And sadly, he tried to fuse Christianity with paganism, for example:

"Later in 321, Constantine instructed that Christians and non-Christians should be united in observing the venerable day of the sun, referencing the sun-worship that Aurelian had established as an official cult." Constantine the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
^the feast of Sol Invictus, is the birth of Christmas.

and then this kind of turmoil when the so-called pagan-turned-christians tried to interpret the Bible, this idea was born:

"One way in which Constantine used his influence over the early Church councils was to seek to establish a consensus over the oft debated and argued issue over the NATURE of God."

and then emperor constantine summoned the Council of Nicea, just to finish the argument and have peace in the empire:

"More significantly, in 325 he summoned the Council of Nicaea"

and in this council, was when Jesus-is-God doctrine was born.

What the emperor can gain in converting to Christianity? Peace in the Roman Empire, but he may be converted, but his practices are still
in the pagan way:

"and long after his oft alleged "conversion" to Christianity, Constantine's coinage continued to carry the symbols of the sun."

5th, why do you think the Apostles and the Followers of Jesus were willing to through death
if Jesus was not God? because the difference really between Jews and Christian especially at that time
was just the belief of Jesus.
what were they preaching that brought them to death?

this is one of their preaching:

John 17:3 - "And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom YOU HAVE SENT." English Standard Version (©2001)

^Pagans don't believe in only one god, Judaism doesn't believe Jesus was sent by God.

Acts 20:28 - "Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood." American Standard Version

And they will definitely not believe in the Church of Christ.

6th, i believe they were preaching about salvation through Jesus and His resurrection.
is this again one of the twisted translations?
the disciples were filled with fear at the time when Jesus was crucified. what changed them from fearful to mighty gospel preachers?
that even death was not able to silence them as you can see, Christian faith is still the leading
faith in this world.

nope, it's not a twisted translation. After Jesus went into heaven, the Apostles preached about Jesus and his resurrection and are trying to win everyone to join the flock, Christ's church.

Acts 20:28 - "Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood." American Standard Version

and even death will not be able to win over it:

Matthew 16:18 - "So I tell you, you are Peter. And I will build my church on this rock. The power of death will not be able to defeat my church." English Revised Version

if you think that John was just stating a metaphor regarding what he said about word was with God, and is God
and that the word was made flesh...well it's your interpretation bai, you're entitled to it
but i would have to disagree with it.
Metaphor is a figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on
some point of comparison. how John wrote it did not in any way connote comparison.

it's not my interpretation bai noy, it's clearly how it is. How are you even sure John wrote it that in any way did not connote comparison?

How can a mere 'plan' be a God, where it is still a thought?..much as how Time can be Gold?
If metaphor, describes a subject by asserting that it is, so Time is actual Gold?

Example of a metaphor: Time is Gold.

Is time actual gold? No,but time's quality is comparable to Gold, much as Logos'(Word) QUALITY is comparable to God. For God's word:

Hebrews 4:12 - "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." American King James Version

^the quality of God's word.

and bai noy, as you've observed, i'm letting the Bible talk to you most of the time They are factual and logical..i don't put my own opinions, for
saying your own opinions not in the Scriptures obviously is teaching rules taught by men:

2 Timothy 3:16 - "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right." New Living Translation (©2007)

Matthew 15:9 - "They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men." New International Version (©1984)

Good luck bai!

[noy]

@acescream, kataas ba aning tubaga oi! hehehehe...malibat man sab tag basa
honestly bai, i would rather have you answer my questions accordingly as how i presented them than
post biblical verses with your interpretation...para mas maapas nato atong pag diskorso, point by point.

Let's start with why should i consider your interpretation and POV esp about your claim
about Jesus not being God? simply because the Bible has been mistranslated which promotes the idea that
Jesus is God.
what you are up against bai is not just me and other forumers who believes that Jesus is God
But the entire Church, not just the Roman Catholic church BUT the other denominations as well
along with its Doctors and Masters of the faith..all throughout Church History.

But honestly there is no point trying to cinvince about how you see Jesus
'cause i too have already proven to myself that He is God and i 've got everything i need on that matter covered.

like what master spring said, this is not a thread for debates but for questions
and speaking of questions, there might be answers that you won't agree with as to what your POV tells you.
but that's the way it is

i respect you have different views on Jesus, i cannot take that away from you.

[dartzed]

Ultimate Sacrifice sa Tawhanung Level ang Kamatayun. Mao ang Dios nagpakatawo para ma level siya sa tawhanung panabot ug tawhanung reasoning. But nabanhaw siya as God para mapakita sa tawo nga Di diay siya tawo kundi Dios nga nipaubos sa tawhanung level.

meaning wala namatay ang ginuo iya ra lawas?.. mura ra d i cya ug nibiya sa iya lawas for 3 days nya nibalik sad para maresurrect iya lawas..

same logic different POV, in short deli jud mamatay ang ginuo..

[dartzed]

hi sis,
if i may, hehe
Christ's resurrection serves many purpose, one could be a proof that He is who He claim He was..
perhaps a Display of His power or an example to what would happen to a Christian faithful on the last day..
His Death has only One purpose though, for our salvation.
we can trace the sacrifice-atonement Law in OT that for Sins to be atoned it requires a sacrifice.

Because of God's Love For us, it has come to a point that Jesus had to come and die as the sacrifice as for mankind to be saved
so great is our sin that it requires a prefect sacrifice.

Jesus did die, otherwise resurrection wouldn't have came in the picture.
in order for one to resurrect, one has to die first.
therefore Jesus did die as human,as "the sacrifice" but Rose again in His true nature which is as God

now to add a bit about resurrection, i know the bible said and the Christian faith
afirms the resurrection of the faithful or those who belong to God
it doesnt mean that the people who will resurrect on the last day will resurrect as God as well..
for whoever will resurrect on that day, will not and cannot resurrect by themselves BUT only through God's power
apart from Sin, that makes Jesus God.

mao gani ako point nga deli jud mamatay ang ginuo bsan pa ug kapila pa cya patyon kay ang nature man kaha niya is being a God mao na maresurrect cya..

walay ginuo nga namatay..

[slabdans]

mao gani ako point nga deli jud mamatay ang ginuo bsan pa ug kapila pa cya patyon kay ang nature man kaha niya is being a God mao na maresurrect cya..

walay ginuo nga namatay..

namatay man siya 3days pero nabuhi rag balik, apil sad lawas, naa baya verse nga pagadto nila ni maria sa iyang lubnganan wala na siya didto

para lang gyud matuman ang kasulatan

[Breakeven]

hi sis,
if i may, hehe
Christ's resurrection serves many purpose, one could be a proof that He is who He claim He was..
perhaps a Display of His power or an example to what would happen to a Christian faithful on the last day..
His Death has only One purpose though, for our salvation.
we can trace the sacrifice-atonement Law in OT that for Sins to be atoned it requires a sacrifice.

Because of God's Love For us, it has come to a point that Jesus had to come and die as the sacrifice as for mankind to be saved
so great is our sin that it requires a prefect sacrifice.

Jesus did die, otherwise resurrection wouldn't have came in the picture.
in order for one to resurrect, one has to die first.
therefore Jesus did die as human,as "the sacrifice" but Rose again in His true nature which is as God

now to add a bit about resurrection, i know the bible said and the Christian faith
afirms the resurrection of the faithful or those who belong to God
it doesnt mean that the people who will resurrect on the last day will resurrect as God as well..
for whoever will resurrect on that day, will not and cannot resurrect by themselves BUT only through God's power
apart from Sin, that makes Jesus God.

Very good point bro! Thanks.