Oklahoma City Thunder

[redemption32]

in any case, despite Westbrook's shortcomings(he's also shooting only 41 percent this season) and losing Harden, OKC is the best team in the West and perhaps the entire league mostly because of Ibaka's improvement and KD's brilliance. the gap between him and Bron is very small now, and what's scary is he's still developing while Lebron has reached his peak.

Offensively, right? I might even go the stretch and say that KD is better offensively.. But I have to disagree kung apil ang depensa. The only thing working for KD on D is that he has long arms. Other than that, he's a little-bit-more-than-average defender. LBJ can use his muscle, his agility, his speed on D. Layo ra au ang defense ni KD ug ni LBJ.

[The Good$!!!]

they could have actually kept Harden. I forgot the reason why he didn't resign, but it was posted way back in the thread. also Ibaka is becoming a diva imo, Perkins has to constantly keep him in check. however, he has improved his game that much is true and as a result OKC has an offence rating of 113 this season, 4 more than 109 last season. would have been more potent if they kept Harden since Harden doesn't just give the team scoring, he can also make plays for other guys unlike Martin.

also Westbrook's assist may not be as valuable as you would think. he's going to get high assists per games because he has the ball almost all the time, not to mention he has guys like KD and Ibaka who are pretty good offensive players(especially the former) to pass to when he does decide to pass and not wildly drive into the lane or shoot a jumper with 21 seconds left on the shot clock. data also shows that his team actually shoots a higher percentage off assisted field goals when he's off the court compared to when he's on the court. although the team is scoring more when he's on the court because of his scoring, but not his playmaking.

in any case, despite Westbrook's shortcomings(he's also shooting only 41 percent this season) and losing Harden, OKC is the best team in the West and perhaps the entire league mostly because of Ibaka's improvement and KD's brilliance. the gap between him and Bron is very small now, and what's scary is he's still developing while Lebron has reached his peak.

Those production from Russ still speaks volumes of how he has worked on improving his game... As a PG of course you have the ball in your hands most of the time... Those 3+ assist per game speaks a lot! Of course you can credit those on Durant and Ibaka but then again if you don't have someone to pass to for high percentage shots, guys like Paul or Williams or Rondo wouldn't be averaging 8+assist per game wouldn't they? From a shoot first PG like Russ who'se game is patterned more like Derrick Rose rather than someone like a Chris Paul, that speaks a lot on his improving play and to his developing maturity... He is still 23 and he is going to grow into a better player alongside KD... That's what great players do... Make your teammates better! His 3 point % has gone up albeit just a bit... If they would have kept Harden then no doubt it would have been great for the organization... But what's done is done, they decided on not matching Houston's offer and both parties have moved on, OKC is winning and tops in the West and that is all that matters for any team... And at the end of the day, the Thunder is lucky to have someone like Russell Westbrook... I consider him 2nd to CP3 as the best PG in the league this season...

That's the difference with Harden from Martin though, Harden can make plays for his teammates... K-Mart does his job, spots up, put up his numbers off the bench and that's good enough for OKC...

There is no doubt in my mind KD will surpass LeBron someday... I just don't see it happening any time soon as long as Bron remains healthy... Talent wise, Durant is heaps better than Bryant was at 23...

[Blackbeard]

difference between Rondo and CP3 to Russell though is their teams actually fare worse when they're off the court, while the Thunder have more assist and score more efficiently when Russ is not on the court. CP3, Rondo, Curry etc. create shots for their teammates, Russ just passes to either KD, Ibaka or Martin and boom, assist. but yeah, those guys are pure PG's, Westbrook is more like an undersized 2.

Offensively, right? I might even go the stretch and say that KD is better offensively.. But I have to disagree kung apil ang depensa. The only thing working for KD on D is that he has long arms. Other than that, he's a little-bit-more-than-average defender. LBJ can use his muscle, his agility, his speed on D. Layo ra au ang defense ni KD ug ni LBJ.

Lebron's on ball D doesn't really impress me. like KD, he's using his physical gifts to his advantage to compensate for his average on ball defensive skills. his help defence is great though. that said, yeah, he's still better than KD in that department.

Lebron is also a better playmaker, something KD is still learning to do. scoring though, man, KD blows Lebron right out of the stratosphere(scoring is to KD what playmaking is to Lebron). add KD's mental toughness, that willingness to play in the clutch to that as well. Lebron has overcome his fear of playing in pressure situations, but he still hates playing in those moments. KD's also a better rebounder because of his length, KD could have averaged 20-10 this season if he went after the boards.

I might just be being biased because KD is my favourite active player in this era.

[The Good$!!!]

Actually when we talk about defense it is like developing a good outside shot... Some players have the natural instinct to play defense, some players develop playing defense and are committed to improve that aspect of their game... You have to have that competitive mentality to be the best and beat the best...

Some are just driven and competitive to excel not only offensively but also defensively... I agree that LeBron's freakish phyical ability and athleticism, par to none, makes him an excellent defender but also because he is motivated to defend the best players on the opposing team... Like Wade, CP3, Bryant, Duncan, Garnett, Hakeem, Barkley, even Iverson never backed down at 6'0 in defending the other team's best player... I could go on and on... and the great Michael Jordan... Lock down defenders who not only are the stars of their team but also their best in playing D...

Although some players finish their careers as one of the all time greats but they were never really known for their defense throughout their careers like Karl Malone, Dirk, Nash, Allen, Pierce, Drexler, Wilkins etc... And some players are just born to be great at playing defense like Bill Russell, Rodman, Ben Wallace, Ron Artest, Howard, Ibaka, Battier, Bowen and the list goes on... "Instinctive" to them...

KD is not yet exactly known for his defense this early in his young career but he has shown the mentality as well as the drive to be the best... Probably that beating in the Finals last season fueled his fire... We can see that KD is more determined this year on both ends of the court... I have seen some highlights of him this season swatting some shots and you can see he wants to defend stars like LeBron and Bryant... If he continues to work on his defense he might be one of those all around greats who excels in both ends of the floor... And at 6'11, with his lenght, athletic ability and deceiving wiry strenght, that could be scary... There is a 5 years age difference between LeBron and Durant, and I could really see no one who would succeed LeBron as the best player in the game after Bron's game starts to deteriorate, especially with Derrick Rose having a serious ACL injury... KD will still be at his peak when LeBron will be in his mid 30's... And it is seldom you hear a 23 year old, this early in their careers getting mentioned as MVP candidates with the likes of Rose, Magic Johnson, Jordan, LeBron, and Durant...

Is LeBron a better playmaker than Durant = Yes. Always has been a willing and excellent passer even in HS... That is why he makes his teammates into All-Stars (Big Z and Mo)

Is KD a better rebounder than LeBron = No. LeBron has been having career averages of 27 8 and 7. That is testament to his all around brilliance... He logs double-doubles as easily as scoring 20pts. The Heat are just coasting this year in the weaker Eastern Conference. Hell, that is why he has garnered 3 MVP plums already before he turned 28! They don't have anything to prove unlike the Clips and OKC who wants to make a statement. The Heat will have the number 1 seed in the East without breaking a sweat...

Is KD a better scorer than LeBron. A better shooter probably. LeBron once said, he can easily average 30pts every game if he wants to. It is just not his type of play to jack up 20-30+ shots like that ballhog in LA...

Is Durantula better than Bryant at age 23 = Hell yes! If Durant (ego less)at this point of his career could have teamed up with Shaq at his prime, they could have won more than 3 championships... That is how I admire the greatness of the Durantula...

[Blackbeard]

I agree that LeBron's freakish phyical ability and athleticism, par to none, makes him an excellent defender but also because he is motivated to defend the best players on the opposing team...

lol he avoids guarding Carmelo.

KD is not yet exactly known for his defense this early in his young career but he has shown the mentality as well as the drive to be the best...

well, he is already averaging 1.3 bpg, better than Bron at age 24 and better than Bron's bpg now. also better career bpg. their defensive rating is about even at age 24, though obviously current Bron is better since Lebron's on ball D is better and his help D is greater.

Is KD a better rebounder than LeBron = No. LeBron has been having career averages of 27 8 and 7. That is testament to his all around brilliance... He logs double-doubles as easily as scoring 20pts.

both age 24? KD is better. currently, KD is casually averaging the same numbers as Bron at age 24. his numbers are just lower than Bron's because the Thunder have a lot of bigs who can rebound, whereas Lebron only played with one active rebounder in Varejao. maybe Bosh too, but he hasn't been the same since his Raptors days.

Is KD a better scorer than LeBron. A better shooter probably. LeBron once said, he can easily average 30pts every game if he wants to.

shooting is another means of scoring. besides, Bron at age 24 was shooting 48% from the field and averaging 28 ppg. KD right now is averaging 2 less ppg(because Westbrook is avg 21 ppg compared to Mo Williams' 17 ppg), but he is shooting 52% from the field. also has a higher TS% than Bron at age 24 and current Lebron, also higher career TS% than Lebron's career TS%. KD also has a higher offensive rating than 24 year old LBJ and current LBJ. KD is more efficient and hence, a better scorer. KD also gets 28% of his scoring in the restricted area(second to mid-range) where he has a 70% FG%, just 4 short of Lebron's FG% in that area and 10% less attempts. and KD's better with post ups as well, although it helps to be 6'11" and have a very sweet touch. Lebron really only started to work on his post game 2 or 3 years ago, which is rather late.

and I don't doubt LBJ can average 30 if he wanted to. for him and KD, such numbers are too easy for them.

Is Durantula better than Bryant at age 23 = Hell yes! If Durant (ego less)at this point of his career could have teamed up with Shaq at his prime, they could have won more than 3 championships... That is how I admire the greatness of the Durantula...

more like that's how you hate Kobe who isn't even part of this discussion of ours lol. coexisting with Shaq? I doubt it. the reason they feuded was because Shaq felt threatened by Kobe, which started during Kobe's rookie year which was Shaq's first season as a Laker. KD probably won't be able to stand constantly being undermined by Shaq and his ego.

I love Shaq though, but hated what he put Kobe through.

edit:
idk if I sounded like I'm saying KD is better lol. I still think Lebron, overall, is a better ball player than KD.

[The Good$!!!]

Bron's been outplaying Melo's ass since their rookie season... The number of blocks per game doesn't necessarily translate to a better defender... I don't think he avoids Carmelo.

Ibaka was averaging close to 4 blocks last season but Chandler got the nod for defensive player of the year...

I don't really translate Ibaka nor Perkins as good rebounders. Faried at 6'8 is a better rebounder than both of them averaging double figures in rebounds for the Nuggets... Big Z was averaging a career best 9.3 rbg, Varejao was averaging 8.23rpg plus you they got an aging Ben Wallace in the 07-08 season... Following season the drafted a good rebounder in JJ Hickson and acquired Joe SMith... Big Z alone at 7'3 makes the Cavs bigger than the present starters in OKC when Bron was 24... Still LeBron was averaging 7.6-7.9rpg... Ibaka averages 8.4rpg and Perk's 5.8rpg...

"James finished the year with seven triple-doubles, breaking his personal and team records for triple-doubles in a season.[56] On February 27, he became the youngest player to score 10,000 points in his career at 23 years, 59 days in a game against the Boston Celtics.[57] Additionally, it only took him 368 games to reach that milestone, the ninth fastest in league history. 07-08" Wiki

With regards to shooting, yes, KD is, was and will always be a better outside shooter than LeBron... The kid has been gifted with an unparalleled outside shot since coming to the league. He is more refined and mature than LeBron at 24... LeBron is just more dangerous in the open court and had compensated that by getting high % shots by muscling his way to the rack... That's the difference with them, Bron was playing basically with scrubs when he was 24 and still he managed to make Big Z an All-Star even with all the ankle surgeries the big guy has had in 2005 (LeBron was second to Nash in the MVP race that season at age 21)... Whereas KD and Russ are basically the same age yet Russ has managed to grow with KD and became an all-star on his own right... RUss is a driven and fiery competitor... You can see how passionate he is and has always played aggressively much to the critics' delight...
In the 08-09 season at age 24 LeBron won the MVP, 2nd in Defensive Player of the year voting, named first NBA defensive team averaged averages of 28.4 points, 7.6 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.7 steals, and a career-high 1.2 blocks and the Cavs went 66-16 for a franchise record... Shaq and Tawn didn't come in until the following year... Now that is a tough act to follow even for someone like Durant, considering his teammates back then... That speaks the difference between him and Durant at 24 years of age...

OT: I love Shaq when he was in LA... Criticizing Shaq for being overweight. Threatened? More like he couldn't wait to be the man in LA and hog the spotlight... Shaq was battling with injuries that season, still has lots of gas left in his tank after 3 dominant years and 3 Finals MVP! I think he was the one who was threatened of someone stealing his thunder when Malone and Payton came aboard. Same reason why LA is struggling because he is "threatened" of Dwight being the new face and future of the Franchise? Same trend eh? That is why he trying too hard jacking those shots, trying to prove he is still the best player in the league... He might be leading the league in scoring but their record is pathetic and I don't buy that injury crap... For me Shaq is the most dominant big man ever to play the game and that is why I hate that s3x offender for forcing Shaq out of LA after giving the city 3 rings... And that was after the season when they lost to the Pistons with Malone and Payton on board... He just couldn't wait for Shaq to pass the reigns over to him like what Timmy did for Parker in San Antonio... Mind you, even battling againts injuries, Shaq was still averaging 20-10 that season...

[u_mad]

Sagdii ra ninyo na si Bruce Lee kay hapit na lang na maupaw sa iya kalagot ni Bryant. Sa una ra na kusog ratrat basta si Kobe na istoryahan.

[Blackbeard]

Bron's been outplaying Melo's ass since their rookie season... The number of blocks per game doesn't necessarily translate to a better defender... I don't think he avoids Carmelo.

lol he doesn't guard him when they play the Knicks. I've only just noticed it when someone pointed it out. he spends the game guarding Novak mostly, while Battier takes on Melo. don't know why. although Melo is really hard to guard, so I can understand if LBJ wants to play it safe.

I don't really translate Ibaka nor Perkins as good rebounders. Faried at 6'8 is a better rebounder than both of them averaging double figures in rebounds for the Nuggets... Big Z was averaging a career best 9.3 rbg, Varejao was averaging 8.23rpg plus you they got an aging Ben Wallace in the 07-08 season... Following season the drafted a good rebounder in JJ Hickson and acquired Joe SMith... Big Z alone at 7'3 makes the Cavs bigger than the present starters in OKC when Bron was 24... Still LeBron was averaging 7.6-7.9rpg... Ibaka averages 8.4rpg and Perk's 5.8rpg...

yeah, OKC right now is actually ranked 10th in rebounding in compared to the Cavs team 24 year old LBJ played, so the Cavs were definitely superior. that's actually surprising to me, although I never really watch a lot of Cavs games. in any case KD spends a lot of time in the perimeter which hurts his rebounding numbers. his offensive rebounds is pretty low compared to LBJ if I'm not mistaken. I guess I have to clarify, KD could still avg more rebounds because his length just gives him that advantage, but not necessarily meaning he's better than LBJ.

"James finished the year with seven triple-doubles, breaking his personal and team records for triple-doubles in a season.[56] On February 27, he became the youngest player to score 10,000 points in his career at 23 years, 59 days in a game against the Boston Celtics.[57] Additionally, it only took him 368 games to reach that milestone, the ninth fastest in league history. 07-08" Wiki

well, I never said KD was a better triple double machine, you know. KD rarely gets triple doubles.

That's the difference with them, Bron was playing basically with scrubs when he was 24 and still he managed to make Big Z an All-Star even with all the ankle surgeries the big guy has had in 2005 (LeBron was second to Nash in the MVP race that season at age 21)...

that's more a credit to Lebron's ability to make guys better with his playmaking than his scoring.

In the 08-09 season at age 24 LeBron won the MVP, 2nd in Defensive Player of the year voting, named first NBA defensive team averaged averages of 28.4 points, 7.6 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.7 steals, and a career-high 1.2 blocks and the Cavs went 66-16 for a franchise record... Shaq and Tawn didn't come in until the following year... Now that is a tough act to follow even for someone like Durant, considering his teammates back then... That speaks the difference between him and Durant at 24 years of age...

that speaks to Lebron being a better all around player, nothing to do with scoring. however, any which way you look at it, KD is just a better scorer, it's probably the one thing he has over Lebron. Lebron is dangerous on the open court and he can score in the restricted area very effectively(as well as get offensive rebounds), but KD can also do that as well. he's developed his strength this year on his way to 70% FG% in the RA and attempting 28% of his shots in that area. KD has so many ways to score and his high release point on his jump shot make him almost unblockable.

something interesting I just noticed, KD's WS/48 is actually higher than Lebron's this year. KD has really grown by a lot.

OT: I love Shaq when he was in LA... Criticizing Shaq for being overweight. Threatened? More like he couldn't wait to be the man in LA and hog the spotlight... Shaq was battling with injuries that season, still has lots of gas left in his tank after 3 dominant years and 3 Finals MVP!

dude, I said ROOKIE YEAR. Shaq was threatened by an 18 year old rookie fresh out of high school. he was threatened by an 18 year old Kobe after Kobe just said he'll become the all time leader in points for LAL and win 5 championships. Shaq was threatened, he started to undermine Kobe and isolated him from the rest of the guys. this is 18 year old Kobe, and Shaq was treating him like **** because he was afraid of the kid.

I think he was the one who was threatened of someone stealing his thunder when Malone and Payton came aboard.

haha oh man, you're getting it totally wrong.

Same reason why LA is struggling because he is "threatened" of Dwight being the new face and future of the Franchise?Same trend eh?

or it could be something more logical like injuries, coaching changes, new players, age, chemistry etc. he's already given Howard the keys to the kingdom when he said LA will be Howards after next season, although it's pretty noticeable that Howard is already the man in LA.

That is why he trying too hard jacking those shots, trying to prove he is still the best player in the league... He might be leading the league in scoring but their record is pathetic and I don't buy that injury crap...

then you're just being completely irrational and obtuse. the team is very injured, Howard hasn't yet played 100 percent. and you know what his gripe is? defence. that's what he told Stan Van Gundy, his old coach and friend, he wishes his teammates played better defence. you just hate Kobe too much you refuse to see logic lol.

For me Shaq is the most dominant big man ever to play the game and that is why I hate that s3x offender for forcing Shaq out of LA after giving the city 3 rings... And that was after the season when they lost to the Pistons with Malone and Payton on board... He just couldn't wait for Shaq to pass the reigns over to him like what Timmy did for Parker in San Antonio... Mind you, even battling againts injuries, Shaq was still averaging 20-10 that season...

Shaq has gone on record to say Kobe had nothing to do with his leaving LA. it was Shaq himself asking more money for his services and the Busses didn't want to give, something Robert Horry agreed as well.


anyway that's off topic now.

[redemption32]

^^ The guy doesn't listen to reason. He admitted it when he said he loves to troll Kobe fans. Sayang, some of his posts are very well thought of, bati lang makig debate ani nya.. Sige ra na xa ug balik2x anang "rapist"..

[Blackbeard]

lol yeah I picked up on that.


anyway KD another 40 point game against the Suns. was told by a fellow KD fan his WS/48 actually went up to 300. I'll have to confirm this information.

also Clippers beat the Grizzlies without CP3. that MVP trophy is sealed Kevin Durant!