Blessed Pedro Calungsod

[MasterK]

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Murag wa nko kasabot unsa imung punto bro, pwedi i straight ug explain ? like kanang krus ok ra na, or sayop na or kanang santos ok ra muagi ta nila...

or unsa man jud imung mensahe, naa kay question sa Bibliya? galibog ko if uyon baka or dili sa akong explanation

ok ra brad. dili nalng nato lisoron pa kay dili man sad ko gud ka pabarug sa argumento nga ako gidala diri mahitungod sa pulong "stauro" nga maoy nasuwat sa 1st NT nga sinuwat sa pinulongang "koine greek" ug ang maong pulong nagpasabot unta ug Upright Post or Stake ug dili ang atong gituhoan Cross nga + sign ang porma. kay ako mismo wala man sad modawat anang poste ra ang porma sa cross. akong lang ni gud pangutana kay fake christians kuno ang ang mogamit ug + sign nga cross... salamat brad sa imong panahon sa pagtubag sa akong mga pangutana.

[noy]

So if ang isa ka Butang or pagtoo dunay dakong Chance nga maka create ug Kasaypanan or Dunay chance nga makahatag ug kalibog, I dont think teaching na sa Bibliya. Kay para nko ang teaching sa Bibliya Perfect man kay perfect man an naghatag.

Like for example kanang rebulto, if ikaw magtan-aw sa Rebulto as reminder sa Dios OK kaayu di bah way dautan ana. Pero if ang Rebulto imu nang Ludhan, Hagkan, Isayawsayaw, I parade, saninaan, Pahiran ug panyo para ang panyo makaayu ug mga sakit. Symbolism pabay tawag ana? .

sio, para nimu sayop kay wala gitudlo sa bibliya? i guess i've already explained this part in my previous posts..i even added verses to support the claim that there are practices in the church that has been taught by the apostles which were not written specifically sa bible. so i hope we will not be black and white with these things..
ang kung para nimu sayop kay naka cause ug division or confusion sa mga tao..
when Jesus came i think it was a pretty huge division among the Jews.

kung muingun ta nga naay chance masayop...tinuod na, bisan asa sio...there will always be chances for misconception and misinterpretation.
kana diay grabeh kaau ta ka black and white sa bible...kung unsay wala sa bible sayop na...diba dako pud nag chance nga masayop na nuon ta?
Like purgatory, daghan kaayog verses nga maghatag nato ug idea about ana
kaso wala lang jud na sa bible ang word nga purgatory..diba ang trinity wala pud? but kita tanang Christian mutoo nga God is a triune being.

regarding veneration and honoring of saints..
Does it mean, kay atong iparade ang image sa santo sa ilang kapistahan idolatry na na? diba atong iparade ang mga artista? magkabuang paman gani ang mga tao para makakuha lang ug autograph? does it mean that they already worship the said artist?dili man guro.,murag paghanga raman guro na..
ang statue ni Rizal during rizal day kay naay magpresentation sa luneta...sab-itan ug flowers iyang rebolto...does it mean that people worship him?
di man guro...pag honor raman raman guro na...
kung nahitabo pa nga taga england ta...ug muagi si queen elizabeth nya moluhod ta, does it mean ato siyang giworship? di man guro..

kanang pahid2x,hikap2x,sa mga rebolto..tuod man sa atong tawhanon nga pagtan.aw maka ingun ta nga ila na giworship ang maong rebolto...Does it really mean that they do?dili m an diba? it could be a deep form of veneration.
and we can only Hope and pray that they are not worshipping the images.
'cause mao ra man jud na atong mabuhat..

sio, where in the Catholic church teachings that teaches to worship idols?
to worship the images?that saints should be worhsipped?

same thing happens when a person is drawn to Christ's passion and is in deep gratitude for what He's done..with the image of the cross being reminded by his Lord's sacrifice bursted into tears and embraced the cross as if he was embracing Jesus himself.
without the knowledge of what that person is going through...it would very easy for us to depict idolatry in his actions.

it is so easy for us to depict idolatry
when an old lady chooses to pave a little sacrifice by kneeling from the church's door step towards the altar for her families salvation.
but misses the similarity when we fast and chose to abstain from certain things as a sacrifice for the salvation of our loved ones.

personally i do not wipe hankies, not really into kissing and touching the statues as well..not because i don't agree with it and i find the said acts as idolatrous...it's just that i am not convicted with such actions...lahi2x man tag paagi pag honor or venerate sa mga saints..
as far as conviction is concerned..i think enough na nang mu tan.aw lang sa ila images when i ask them to pray with me..and i don't have problems praying even without images either.

and kung naa man ganiy mga tao nga giworship jud ang mga rebolto ug mga imahe...
di jud ta kahibaw kay mao2x ra ug physical projection ang nagworship ug naghonor...ang deprensya lang is kung unsay naa sa kasing-kasing..
gawas kung musolti jud ang tao nga pedro calungsod! Ginoo ko! tabang!!...
kana klaro najud na..

we honor people everyday, we honor heroes(dead or alive) and special people in some special occasions..we have different ways in honoring people..different levels of honors are being given...
but only God is worthy of our worship.

if i see people doing the traditional practices of how saints are honored in church...apart from being blessed by their passion i can only hope for a genuine heart.
in the same way we we honor a politician for being true to his word and at the same time prays for a pure intention..

i think we can both agree that looking,touching even kissing images Does not directly mean that we worship the images..
but in this practice there is also a risk in having an idol..
so pray for us...we need each other's prayers...

in the same way that we build our dreams and pre plan our future
there is also a risk that unknowingly we are making our dreams our idol
which takes God's rightful place in our lives..
that's why we pray for a sound mind and a heart rooted with faith in Christ.

[necrotic freak]

^^very nice apologetics @noy

hinaot mo tuhop ni sa imong galamnan @sio

[noy]

Do you believe nga ang teaching sa Bibliya di pwedi maka Create ug Conflict sa pagtuo? nga ang teaching sa Bibliya if imu sundon di maka create ug scenario nga makapasayop sa tawo? in Short - perfect, and with common sense?

di ko matawag nga usa ka Christian sio kung di ko mutoo nga ang Bibliya maoy atong guide...para nako wala nay lain nga libro ang nagdala sa pulong sa Diyos ug kaluwasan ang Bible ra..
pero kung muingun ko nga kung unsay wala sa bibliya dili na tinuod..
sama ra ko sa usa ka aetheist nga muingun "i know there's no God" despite of not being able to grasp everything there is under the sun.

ang differences sa POV..tungod na sa nagkalain-laing interpretetasyon nato sa Bible.
which is natural ra na kay wala man mi usa sa ato nakahibaw jud kung unsay naa sa utok sa Ginoo bahin sa mga bersikulo..
di na angay nimung basehan kung sakto or dili ang usa ka tradition or practice.
kay kung maohon, walay insakto nga religion, including Chrsitianity kay religion has caused division to people man.

karun mutoo ka nga naay practices ang mga unang Christian nga wala nahisulat sa Bible?

mutoo ka nga possible kang nasayop sa imung POV regarding veneration of saints?

mutoo ka nga ang maong practices can be traced from Jewish practices
hangtud early Christians, and can be traced through apostolic succession?

ug mutoo pud ka nga Luther using his own interpretation of the scipture made a mistake about purgatory and indulgence?

kahibaw ba ka nga Luther honor saints? and that he even calls mary the mother of Jesus as queen of the heaven...
but Luther obviously knows the difference between veneration and worship.
that's why he knew that by calling mother mary as queen of heaven
and with his seveal veneration poems he was not worshipping them
but just honoring.

[Scott Bernard]

So far, being a Roman Catholic has given me graces and blessings... Godbless Saint Pedro Calungsod!

[defender_1611]

@noy: bay noy naa lang koy pangayuan nimo ug comment aning statement below.


The cross is found in both pre-christian and non christian cultures. The cross was a well-known heathen sign. Go to the British Museum, and look on the statue of Samai Vul. King of Assyria. B.C. 825: on his breast he wears this ‘ t ‘ . – New Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol 4, 473.

kana nga book bay noy hinuwaman ko na sa amung silingan na padung na pagka pari.

[noy]

@noy: bay noy naa lang koy pangutana....naa koy statement diri gikan sa new catholic encyclopedia. unsa imong ma comment ani?


The cross is found in both pre-christian and non christian cultures. The cross was a well-known heathen sign. Go to the British Museum, and look on the statue of Samai Vul. King of Assyria. B.C. 825: on his breast he wears this ‘ t ‘ . – New Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol 4, 473.

kana nga book bay noy hinuwaman ko na sa akong friend na padung na pagka pari.

personal ni nga pagsabut ako bai ha...dili ni official jud...wala niy nihil obstat akong statement..hehehe

as plain as what the encyclopedia states bai,before Christianity the cross have had many meanings.
before Christ, when people see a cross, i think what would come into their minds kay
criminals,shame punishment and even death.

but the passion and sacrifice of our Lord has changed its meaning..at least for most Christians
the cross now resembles victory over sin on the cross.
we see crosses all over..people don't believe in God or in Jesus even wear cross necklaces,earings...
so depende ra jud na kung unsa atong pagtan.aw sa cross...a cross can be just a plus sign or a straight X..
and a cross can certainly symbolize Christ's Love for us.

like si Buddha diba naay swatiska sa iyang chest...it doesnt mean that Budhha was a nazi does it?
or the nazi were buddhist.
symbolism is deep bai..

ang ang usa ka pagan,mugamit ug cross for some pagan rituals or something...
then that cross would obviously be a pagan cross...

if a person kneels before a cross remembering the sacrifice of a loving savior, then
that is a Christian cross.

i believe Jesus changed the meaning of the cross from whatever shameful origin it has
in the same way He changes our shameful past into powerful testimonies of His grace and Love.

[MasterK]

@defender: pwede sad ko mo ask lang nimo brad unsay porma sa krus imong gituohan brad (kung nitou kag krus)? kato bang similar sa + sign or kato bang "stauro" nga nagpasabot ug Upright Post or Stake or l sign? ngutana lang ko brad. pero pwede ra sad di ka motubag kung pananglit dili ni importante para nimo ang krus

[noy]

up for you masterK!

[Xian120]

minaw lang ko kay di ko ka relate