Blessed Pedro Calungsod

[defender_1611]

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Murag your post is all about church traditions...

If mu ingun mu inyung basis or explanation sa inyung doctrina is From Church Traditions, bisag di ko mu uyon pero DILI ko makig Diskosyon ana kay inyu sad na nga basis, wa tay common ground nga basehan.

Pero if mukuha mug verse sa Bibliya as your Proof or Basis, then we will have a discussion kay naa may common basis which is ang Bibliya.

@ noy: bay noy i would agree of what bro siodenz said......kay lisud man pod gud kaayo ug wala tay common gorund na basehanan.....kay mismo ang bibliya ug ang catholic books with label Nihil Obstat and Imprimitur mo contradict man sa bible. awa balik ang akong gi post na comparison between catechism of the catholic church vs the bible. makita gyud nimo ang difference. kani siya na book na naa nako bay noy permitted pa gani ni sa Roman Catholic Church.

[noy]

Murag your post is all about church traditions...

If mu ingun mu inyung basis or explanation sa inyung doctrina is From Church Traditions, bisag di ko mu uyon pero DILI ko makig Diskosyon ana kay inyu sad na nga basis, wa tay common ground nga basehan.

Pero if mukuha mug verse sa Bibliya as your Proof or Basis, then we will have a discussion kay naa may common basis which is ang Bibliya.

@sio and @defender..

ang traditions sa Catholic church man gud ang ato topic.
there are verses that supports the church's traditions.(though debatable ni 'cause of different interpretations).
though some of the traditions are NOT spicifically written on the Bible in matters of hows and patterns..
But i think we can both agree that there are traditions followed by early Christians, as early as first generation Christians that are not written in the Bible but are instructed by the apostles themselves to be practiced and passed on to the next generation of Christians by word of mouth.

the ff verses are clear about the said traditions

"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).

"Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (2 Tim. 1:13-14).
--unsa man kaha ni nga pattern iya pasabut? nga wala man gi specific ug state sa Bible

"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." (2 Thess. 2:15) --unsa man kaha ni nga mga tradition?and the verse clearly means that there are things that the apostles taught to the members of the church that cannot be found in the bible..

"You, then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:1-2).
--by the word heard, wala jud na niya gisuwat..but given by word of mouth...perhaps when the apostle visited the churches.
and klaro pud kaau nga gisugo niya ang mga membro to pass the tradition to other Christians.

"‘Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink, but I hope to come to see you and talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete" (2 John 12).
--"would rather not use paper" therefore it is possible that there are instructions that are not necessarily found in the bible but of course
should still be based from God's word.

now, i think wala nato diri sa forum or bisan kinsa nga atong nailhan karun, knows what those unwritten traditions would be?
therefore we'll just have to take it by witnesses,obedience and by faith.

in faith with the traditions that they have been passed on from the very church that Jesus established through Peter.

karun unsa man nga church that has direct lineage to the first generation of Christians?
the church that has apostolic succession?
Apostolic Succession | Catholic Answers


and besides, there are things that most Christians do today that are not written specifically on the bible but in a broader sense.
one of which is how we reach out to people. we use technology, music, media, we use different ideas depending on what type of people we are trying to reach out.. is the process really laid over in the bible?

Jesus only said Love your neighbor as youself Jesus only told us to preach the good news to the ends of the earth. Jesus didn't really said how diba?

how about being a Christian? the bible does not really indicate specifics how a christian should be?
that's why we different different type of Christians, we have the compassionate ones, we also have the condemning ones even to the point of not associating themselves with unbelievers, we have Christians who are very legalistic, we also have secular Christians(the ones that mostly misinterpreted to be compromising)..we have black and white Christians...we have Christians who thinks prayer should be silent, we have Christians who shouts at the top of their lungs in praise...and a whole lot more...
of course we also have Christ-like Christians...
however the bible does offer significant examples but broad ones as well.
when lost we ought to just go back to what Jesus said: Love God above all else and our neighbors as ourselves.
even the 2 commandments though specific but still are very broad ones.

kanang tradition sa Catholic, bati lang na sa panan.aw sa uban first because of some Catholics ra pud.
just like how other people find Christiany rediculus...obviously not because it is but because of Christians(All denominations and yes, apil mi katoliko) ra pud.

Martin Luther even had marian devotions,even refer to mother mary as the queen of heaven throughout his life
He also honor saints.(clearly Luther understood the veneration and honoring of saints differently than most protestants today)
what He specifically went against was the selling of indulgences.
then personal inpretations about indulgence and purgatory kicked in.
which is just natural and understandable, same thing happens when a Christian embraces aetheism or another religion.

i personally would go against selling indulgences as well.
Catholic church does not even approve the selling..
apparently some church leaders evolved into being business minded

we both know that there are also verses that supports mid state or most popularly known as purgatory.
even the term Holy Trinity is not found in the Bible But all Christian believes that the Godhead is of 3persons simply because God's triune being is supported by sciptures same with purgatory.

[noy]

@ noy: bay noy i would agree of what bro siodenz said......kay lisud man pod gud kaayo ug wala tay common gorund na basehanan.....kay mismo ang bibliya ug ang catholic books with label Nihil Obstat and Imprimitur mo contradict man sa bible. awa balik ang akong gi post na comparison between catechism of the catholic church vs the bible. makita gyud nimo ang difference. kani siya na book na naa nako bay noy permitted pa gani ni sa Roman Catholic Church.

kadtong chart bai bah? naa jud didto gibutang sa mismong book nga Jesus is not enough?
or the chart was your interpretation of the book's content?

[MasterK]

morag wala may ganahan motubag nga dili katoliko sa akong pangutana nga "unsa ang masulod sa ilang huna2x ug kasing2x kung makakita sila ug kurus o balabag"

tuguti nalang ko ninyo molakbit saysay ha...

sa miaging adlaw adunay koy nakit-an naglantugi kabahin sa cross. pero hitech na sila kay laptop naman ilang dala. dili prehas sa una nga naa koy makit-an nga mamumulong nga magdalag usa ka sakong basahon LoL.

ilang gilantugian nga ang cross kuno sa karaang panahon dili kurus or balabag apan hitsura kuno haligi nga magbarug nga walay gibabag. Ginganlan kuno ug stauro. mao naintriga ko kon unsa to. pag-abot nako sa amoa ako dayon giwiki ug mao ni ako nabasahan:
(karaan na diay kaau nga issue nabag-ohan lang diay ko hehehe)

Stauros
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stauros (σταυρός) is the Greek word, usually translated cross, that in the Bible is used in reference to the device on which Jesus was executed. The meaning of the word has changed over the centuries.

The word stauros comes from the verb ἵστημι (histēmi: "straighten up", stand"), which in turn comes from the Proto-Indo-European root *stā-,[1] *stha,[2] stao, "stem", "shoot" (the same root from which come the German Stern, or Stamm, the English "stand", the Spanish word estaca, the Italian stare, of similar meanings).[3][4]
[edit]Homeric and classical Greek

In Homeric and classical Greek, until the early 4th century BC, stauros meant an upright stake, pole,[5][6] or piece of paling, "on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground."[7]
In the literature of that time it never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always one piece alone. ...

basin naay moy maaung katin-anawan ani mga brad? kay naintriga gyud ko dah.

[noy]

daghan man daw klase sa pagcrucify master...and yes naa pud nang style nga usa ra ka kahoy ang gigamit
naa pud pina T which shows X/Y axis...giving us the "+" sign. naa pud pinatuwad pagka lansang.
perhaps the Roman style of crucifixion is kadtong pina X/Y... pero wa jud ta kahibaw...haha!

[MasterK]

daghan man daw klase sa pagcrucify master...and yes naa pud nang style nga usa ra ka kahoy ang gigamit
naa pud pina T which shows X/Y axis...giving us the "+" sign. naa pud pinatuwad pagka lansang.
perhaps the Roman style of crucifixion is kadtong pina X/Y... pero wa jud ta kahibaw...haha!

daghan klase pagcrucify pero ang pasabot man gud kato Jesus, poste kuno ug dili kurus ang gilansangan atoh
tuo ka anah brad noy? or unsa man gyud gituohan sa katoliko?

aw sorry brad noy di nalang tika pangutan-o kay niingon man diay ka nga kon makakita ka ug kurus makahinumdom ka ni Jesus. so dayag nalang nga kurus gyud imo gitohuan ug dili poste. hehehe

[noy]

daghan klase pagcrucify pero ang pasabot man gud kato Jesus, poste kuno ug dili kurus ang gilansangan atoh
tuo ka anah brad noy? or unsa man gyud gituohan sa katoliko?

para nako and i guess sa Catholic church kay kandtong pina + sign kay mao may early depiction or portrayals of how Jesus was crucified...plus this portrayal can be traced pa as early as 1st and 2nd century Christians.
safe to say that the said depiction abot Jesus' cross is coming from first hand witnesses.

while the single timber cross is also present as well as other forms and ways of crucifixion...
and why would they call it cross if nothing crossed in the first place..hahaha

[MasterK]

para nako and i guess sa Catholic church kay kandtong pina + sign kay mao may early depiction or portrayals of how Jesus was crucified...plus this portrayal can be traced pa as early as 1st and 2nd century Christians.
safe to say that the said depiction abot Jesus' cross is coming from first hand witnesses.

while the single timber cross is also present as well as other forms and ways of crucifixion...
and why would they call it cross if nothing crossed in the first place..hahaha

ok brad noy dawaton ko nah imong pamahayag. ang ako nalang gihuwat ani ang atong mga kaigsounang kristohanon sa laing denomination. gusto sad nako mahibawan unta ang ilang panahom. hinaut nga patlinghugan sad unta nila kining akong gipangayong katin-awan.

[noy]

ok master, tungod sa imung gi raise nga topic..naka research nuon kog ahat...Lol

naa koy nakit.an nga article..
mahulog ug debatable pud ang "poste style" nga crucifixion...

Dionysius of Halicarnassus, who lived at the time of the birth of Jesus, described how those condemned to crucifixion were led to the place of execution:

"A Roman citizen of no obscure station, having ordered one of his slaves to be put to death, delivered him to his fellow-slaves to be led away, and in order that his punishment might be witnessed by all, directed them to drag him through the Forum and every other conspicuous part of the city as they whipped him, and that he should go ahead of the procession which the Romans were at that time conducting in honour of the god. The men ordered to lead the slave to his punishment, having stretched out both his arms and fastened them to a piece of wood which EXTENDED ACROSS HIS BREAST AND SHOULDERS AS FAR AS HIS WRISTS, followed him, tearing his naked body with whips."[50] Roman Antiquities, VII, 69:1-2

Dionysius here uses the Greek word xylon (ξύλον) for the horizontal crossbeam (the "patibulum") used in Roman crucifixions; he describes how the hands of the condemned man were tied to it (χεῖρας ἀποτείναντες ἀμφοτέρας [...] προσδήσαντες) for him to be whipped while being led to the place of execution.[51]

possible jud nga ang roman style crucifixion kay kadtong traditional Christian cross "+"

source:Instrument of Jesus' crucifixion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[MasterK]

@noy: salamat sa imong gipakitang katinawan brad noy. doul na gyud ni sa tinoud. para kaha sa mga kaigsounang kristohanon nga dili katoliko noh unsa sad kaha ilaha nahibaw-an? maau unta ug naa sad mamahayag diri dah.