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  1. #371

    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod


    cge kamo mga non catholic unsa man gyud inyo gusto? sige ibutang nato sayop sila, unsa man inyo gusto nila buhaton? kay murag way kataposang link, verse ug debate ang mahitabo ani, kung kamo pasultihon unsa man angay nila buhaton? mo balhin ug hinduismo?, muslim, budhismo? or mag teroresmo na lng...ipasabot nila ang angay nilang buhaton, ayaw mog sige pangutana ana ilang practice
    Last edited by slabdans; 12-06-2012 at 06:16 PM.

  2. #372

    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod

    @sio, bai, di nalang nako i qoute tagsa2x imung reply ha...plus akong tubag pa murag taas na jud kaau..
    i'll try to sum up my reply into 1 point lang..

    @defender i think murag naa pud kay insights makuha ani...so...kindly read through bai
    pasensya kaau if naay mga questions nga wala kaau ma address..it's either wala ko kahibaw unsay itubag or na busy ko
    kay nag multi tasking ko run...at the same time naa pud koy work sa office...Lol

    i think this argument circulates with the Catholic church's practice of asking the saints to pray for us.
    i believe this tradition has been in place long before protestantism broke which you can freely search through history.
    i think the churches throughout history developed a huge misconception about honoring saints, tungod kay wala sa Bible gisugo nga we should honor the saints.
    which i believe also is logical and valid argument.
    However if we look at these verses:
    *I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).
    --paul mentioned traditions, now i didn't say that paul specifically talks about honoring saints and asking them to pray for us. but the thought is, there are things NOT written in the bible that early Christians honor.
    *Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (2 Tim. 1:13-14).
    --in this verse we notice the phrase "pattern of sound words" which means that not all instructions,celebrations and traditions are written in scriptures.
    *So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." (2 Thess. 2:15)
    --key word there is either by word of mouth, so technically there are traditions that were just taught to be observed.(again not necessarily honoring of saints).
    *You, then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:1-2).
    --another verse about teaching a tradition by mouth, plus an instruction to pass the tradition.
    *"‘Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink, but I hope to come to see you and talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete" (2 John 12).
    --this verse comfirms that NOT all early Christian traditions are in the scripture.
    by the verses we just read, accusing the Catholic church for doing unbiblical traditions may be a little extreme. 'cause we simply do not know if the tradition of honoring Saints are part of the tradition that early Christians practiced.

    i will post an article sio ha, to better explain my idea about the practice
    the source:Frequently Asked Questions about Saints - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online

    when did the Church start honoring saints?

    By the year 100 A.D., Christians were honoring other Christians who had died, and asking for their intercession. Many people think that honoring saints was something the Church set up later, but it was part of Christianity from the very beginning. As a matter of fact, this practice came from a long-standing tradition in the Jewish faith of honoring prophets and holy people with shrines. The first saints were martyrs, people who had given up their lives for the Faith in the persecution of Christians.

    Is keeping statues or pictures of saints idolatry?

    Look at the pictures of your loved ones in your wallet or around your home or office. Why do you keep these particular pictures? You might answer that you carry those pictures to remind you of people you love, to help you feel that they're close to you when you're not together, or to share with people you meet. But you probably didn't say you worshipped them. Those are some of the same reasons we have statues and pictures of saints. Seeing a statue of Saint Therese of Lisieux who lost her mother when she was a child might make us feel less alone when we are grieving. A picture of Saint Francis of Assisi might remind us of how much he loved God's creation and make us more aware of our environment.

    Do Catholics pray to saints?

    We pray with saints, not to them. Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you when you were having a hard time? Why did you choose to ask that person?

    You may have chosen someone you could trust, or someone who understood your problem, or someone who was close to God. Those are all reasons we ask saints to pray for us in times of trouble.

    Since saints led holy lives and are close to God in heaven, we feel that their prayers are particularly effective. Often we ask particular saints to pray for us if we feel they have a particular interest in our problem. For example, many people ask Saint Monica to pray for them if they have trouble with unanswered prayers, because Monica prayed for twenty years for her son to be converted. Finally her prayers were answered in a way she never dreamed of -- her son, Augustine, became a canonized saint and a Doctor of the Church.

    How does the Church choose saints?

    Canonization, the process the Church uses to name a saint, has only been used since the tenth century. For hundreds of years, starting with the first martyrs of the early Church, saints were chosen by public acclaim. Though this was a more democratic way to recognize saints, some saints' stories were distorted by legend and some never existed. Gradually, the bishops and finally the Vatican took over authority for approving saints.

    In 1983, Pope John Paul II made sweeping changes in the canonization procedure. The process begins after the death of a Catholic whom people regard as holy. Often, the process starts many years after death in order give perspective on the candidate. The local bishop investigates the candidate's life and writings for heroic virtue (or martyrdom) and orthodoxy of doctrine. Then a panel of theologians at the Vatican evaluates the candidate. After approval by the panel and cardinals of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, the pope proclaims the candidate "venerable."

    The next step, beatification, requires evidence of one miracle (except in the case of martyrs). Since miracles are considered proof that the person is in heaven and can intercede for us, the miracle must take place after the candidate's death and as a result of a specific petition to the candidate. When the pope proclaims the candidate beatified or "blessed," the person can be venerated by a particular region or group of people with whom the person holds special importance.

    Only after one more miracle will the pope canonize the saint (this includes martyrs as well). The title of saint tells us that the person lived a holy life, is in heaven, and is to be honored by the universal Church. Canonization does not "make" a person a saint; it recognizes what God has already done.

    Though canonization is infallible and irrevocable, it takes a long time and a lot of effort. So while every person who is canonized is a saint, not every holy person has been canonized. You have probably known many "saints" in your life, and you are called by God to be one yourself.

  3. #373

    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod

    Quote Originally Posted by SioDenz View Post
    Mao bitaw gitawag nga Photo kay ikaw jud nang naa sa Pics, imu jud nang dagway dha kay gi copy na sa original nimu nga dagway. Nganu na Immaterial man?
    You cant say that on the Images of Christ sa church kay lain lain man ug dagway ug wala may naka kita sa actual dagway ni Kristo.

    Im not questioning your belief of saints, akong gi question imung example regarding PHotos as representations.
    as physical beings, i think we have a tendency to cling to something we can grasp physically.
    in the case of representation though not accurate, it's always nice to have something to look at too..
    i think that's the logical and rational explanation for images.
    just like looking through photos or objects that reminds us of our friends and loved ones away from us.

    i think we can also agree that the image of Jesus portrayed by Catholic artists has a valid basis pud if not really the exact image.
    and can be traced down to the eye witnesses of Jesus and scientific depictions about how Jesus would have looked like.
    that's why it's called representation 'cause it just represents the image of Jesus otherwise it would have been a photograph..
    but sad to say, wala may camera sa time ni Jesus..hehehe
    so nganu maghimu man jud ug images?
    well, persoally, nindut bya pud naa tay tan.awn while ga ampo..physical attachment
    didn't the bible wrote things against images and carvings being worshipped?
    i beleive we don't worship the image or the representation but Jesus who is being portrayed by the image.
    same thing happens when we talk to photos of our loved ones away...
    we're not talking to the photo itself but to the person pictured by the photo.
    same explanation applies with carvings,apart from representation, they serve as symbols..
    we touch the statue of Jesus as if we are touching Jesus Himself.
    it doesnt mean we woship the statue by touching it.
    in the same manner we embrace things that reminds us of a person we miss so much.

    artistically, i think God would appreciate how artists put their faith into
    something something visual.
    just as much as God would want our faith in action than in words

  4. #374
    C.I.A. vahnhelsing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod

    mangutana ko, nganong dili man christian ang tubag sa mga catholics o uban protestants ug pangutan-on sila unsa ila religion?

    diba Kristo man ang gitoohan jud and not what the pastors or priests says?
    Last edited by vahnhelsing; 12-06-2012 at 07:17 PM.

  5. #375

    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod

    Quote Originally Posted by Xian120 View Post
    kanang sobra nga attachment sa usa ka butang o tawo,

    Ex: Uyab,

    one form of idolatry diay nang uyab sa
    hahah
    btaw sah? may gani minyo nako...Lol

  6. #376

    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod

    Quote Originally Posted by defender_1611 View Post
    In short, the scenario goes like this. Catholicism discarded the scriptural definition of a "saint" and devised a new one, then instructed members to pray to these unscriptural "saints."The question is, why pray to anyone else when the God of the universe is in heaven waiting to hear and answer prayers?

    Supposedly, these so-called saints "intercede with the Father for us." But we have already learned that Jesus Christ is our only intercessor. Therefore, to suggest otherwise is but a man made tradition.

    According to the Catholic church, praying to saints brings people closer to Christ. However, you will not find this doctrine in Scripture either. It is another tradition of men that neither Jesus nor the Bible ever taught.

    In fact, this practice of communing with the dead treads dangerously close to necromancy, another practice strongly condemned in the Bible. (See Deuteronomy 18:10-12.)

    The nagging question you must answer here is: Why would the Catholic church rather have members pray to dead men than to the living, all-powerful, prayer-answering God?

    Keep in mind that if these traditions of men are not true, then all your prayers to "saints" are but worthless chatter.

    If you pray to God, though, you may claim many wonderful Biblical promises:

    "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." Hebrews 4:16
    not necessarily bai, the tradition of honoring departed Christians has been practiced by early Christians..
    and can even be traced to Jewish practices which is technically where Christianity came from.
    and we know that there are verses that points out that there are traditions not mentioned in the bible
    but given by word of mouth by the apostles themselves to churches to be observed and passed on to generations.
    pls. check my reply with siodenz post, i also tagged you along in it. naa didto ang medyo detailed nga info gamay

    here's a link for you to read: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/scrip...eference-guide

  7. #377

    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod

    Quote Originally Posted by defender_1611 View Post
    bay noy base sa imong mga situations bah although dili ni mao akong gi expect na answer. palihug backread nalang sa chart na akong gi post bay noy kay tua ra ang tubag didto.

    it would have been nice to know your idea about the examples given bai

    we know hitler lived a very horrible life diba?all the killings and stuff...plus nagpakamatay pa jud siya
    what if Hitler before his last breath, from the bottom of his heart repented and asked forgiveness for everything he had done and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior..
    where do you suppose Hitler's soul would be situated? heaven dayun? or hell pud dayun?

    now say an aetheist, lives his life according to the law..Loved other people as himself, a very righteous man, does not steal,does not hold grudge, helps people undconditionally BUT does not BELIEVE in God.
    he was just making the most of his life.
    what happens when this person dies? Hell dritso? what if He repents when He sees God and accepts Hhis fault for not believing...
    Heaven pud dritso? but diba wala siya nituo ni God while alive pa siya?

    last example,usa ka Christian, openly declares his faith in Christ, whatever he does, pirme siya mu acknowledge ni God
    serves in a church,does charity...you know typical christian charity works
    but same as ordinary people, repents after sinning, then the cycle begins.
    his life has been a battle between rising above or under sin..but the faith is there..
    and of course, wala siya nakapatay,wala pud nangabit..wala siya mortal sin kung baga..hahaha
    but he sins almost all the time in his mind..hehehe..but generally maayong tao jud.
    asa man ni siya padung? heaven dritso? of course di jud ni ma hell kay naa guy faith? plus ni struggle pa jud to rise above sin.

    Last edited by noy; 12-06-2012 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #378

    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod

    Quote Originally Posted by vahnhelsing View Post
    mangutana ko, nganong dili man christian ang tubag sa mga catholics o uban protestants ug pangutan-on sila unsa ila religion?

    diba Kristo man ang gitoohan jud and not what the pastors or priests says?
    sakto ka bai...i guess it has something to do with misconceptions sa mga katigulangan...
    kanang muingun akong mama sa una, lain man na cla ug tinuohoan/religion
    but she was actually referring to protestants...which Christian ra gihapun..hehehe...

    personally, i consider myself as Christian jud.
    and being Catholic is just one of the specs.

    not everyone know this, kay others thought when you say that you are Christian
    what comes into their minds kay you are either protestant, or another sect of Christianity
    others even thought that "born again" is a religion.
    Last edited by noy; 12-06-2012 at 07:46 PM.

  9. #379

    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod

    srp man cguro .hehee

  10. #380

    Default Re: Blessed Pedro Calungsod

    hehehe, nguta lang ko hah. kung makakita mo ug Kurus unsa man masulod sa inyo huna2x ug kasing2x anah?

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