Blessed Pedro Calungsod

[shinngakkusei]

---

even a suspect is pressumed innocent till proven guilty.

i did not say that i was right as in a 100% maski pag katoliko ko...but i know about Catholicism because i am Catholic.
would you ask a plumber to do electrical wirings?

i would not expect even the smartest aetheist to accpet that there is God over night simply because una pa lang...di na siya mutoo..
an aetheist can present 100 solid fact that there is no god, while a theist can counter those facts about God's existence..

i was baptized a catholic,but i grew up hating the church,;cause of its corruption,abuse,and yeah HISTORY! the killings,
and personally witnessed how the church can very corrupt..not to mention the hypocrites...

tell me, am i the type who would suddenly defend Catholicism over night?
but i won't brag about the process i went through to reach this state of embracing God and my religion.

ALL i know is that no one knows the absolute truth and that pushes me not to put labels on people's belief or faith..
i know where my faith stands, i share and i defend that's it.
i don't agree with some islam,buddhism teachings but all the more i care about the relationship over winning converts and rediculing the other religion.

'cause loving one another as ourselves cannot be defined by putting labels on other people's belief
basing on what we know is right or true..

Do you know why there are people like me sounds very strong to push enough label on peoples belief? because I know the truth.
Most of the people will say we should respect each others belief. that is because they are not on the strong foundation about what the Bible teaches. if you stand on this [no one knows the absolute truth] then its natural for a person not to put label on peoples belief. because he is not sure too.

I am not telling base on myself but what the Bible says. if the Bible say that it is wrong, then we Christian also must say that is wrong.

['cause loving one another as ourselves cannot be defined by putting labels on other people's belief
basing on what we know is right or true..] The teaching on the Bible is very contrary from this. If you love your brother you must instruct him if he is doing wrong. To correct a person is a real expression of Love. It is just like a mother chastening her son because she doesn't want her son to be like that when he gets old.

Now I saw that you have your History knowledge about Catholic Churches bloody past. Yes they were the responsible for killing the 60 Million Christians in the dark ages. where is Christianity here?

[noy]

log off sa ko bai...chat with you tomorrow

[shinngakkusei]

log off sa ko bai...chat with you tomorrow

ako pud bai. tiwas lang ta ugma... nice atong discussion.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

@noy: bay noy musta? naa lang koy pangutana gamay regarding aning "PURGATORY"

Ibutang nato bay noy na ang PURGATORY is tinuod (eventhough it does not exist in the bible). Heres my question:

A. How many prayers, masses, and good works it will take to get one out of purgatory?

B. What kind of contact does the Roman Catholic church have with God in order to know who made it to heaven and those who are still being purified?

C. How do they know?


kani lang sa akong pangutana sa pagka karon bay noy kay mu out nako sa office......

If I can be of help, have the luxury of reading the lives of the saints particularly, ST.NICHOLAS of TOLENTINE . All 3 questions of yours are answered while he was still alive.

@shinngakkusei ....

I would like to know if its ok sa outcomes of your study on behalf of the RCC's "History, their origin, their founder, on how their doctrines evolves and also when did they started to exist.", That would be very interesteing.

[SioDenz]

sio, in Hohn3:16 Jesus taught that whoever believes in HIM will not DIE but will have ETERNAL Life?

And when will be that Eternal Life be given? Right after Death? Because in revelation it says when God will come here on earth, All of us Dead and Alive will all be Judged which is wala pa nahitabo. So how come a person that is yet to be Judged or saved able to save others? naa verse sa Bibliya about dead people able to save other dead people?

And how can you explain this?
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 - For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

The saints and the others lived an extraordinary Life in the name of spreading God's Love through the gospel of Jesus Christ.
they may have died physically, BUT are they really DEAD? The bible clearly says that God is the God of the LIVING and NOT the dead..

How do you know they live an extraordinary lives when what you know are all stories? God is the only one who can Read our Hearts and no one else therefore God has all the authority to Judge us not Us judging other people.

Abraham and Mosses are the CHOSEN ones by God Yet you cant read anywhere in the Bible that teach us to ask them to mediate us to God especially when they already dead. Or maybe you can post some verse that Jesus told his Apostle to ask certain people to mediate them to God after that someone is dead.

i know that there's a verse in deuteronomy that prohibits us to contact the dead...what God prohibits is necromancy and sorcery..clearly asking saints
to bring us closer to Jesus is NOT of the same concept..it is even more closer to asking another Christian to pray for us.

There are also People same as us, why man exempted man sila? because other people saw them as holy? mao wa naapil?

Nothing or No one would ever compare with Jesus.i agree that Jesus is the only mediator between His Father and mankind.
But the bible clearly teaches that we need to pray for each other diba?i hope we are already clear on saints being dead issue. so what's wrong with asking the Saints to pray for us?

1. Because there dead and Jesus or the Bible did Not say that those particular people have the Power to hear our prayers. And because Jesus did Not even told us to Make Mary our Mediator. Kay if naa pa na nga concept, sharo wa jud kahisgot si Kristo nga buhi pa man siya atu?
2. Kay tawo ray naghimu ana nila nga santo dili ang Ginoo. So mahulog nga ni Violate na sa concept nga ang Ginoo ray nakahibalo sa tinuod nga kaayu sa tawo ug way lain kay ang Ginoo ray makabasa sa atung tinuod nga gibate ug pagtuo. If mu ingun ka santos ning tawhana tungod sa akong nakita nya, does it mean nga nakita nimu iyang tinuod nga gibate ug pagtuo? is it the same as Judging other people that they are Bad?

this bible verses may serve as a reference that departed Saints do pray for us..
*Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

The question is Kinsay naghimu nila as saints? is it Man? abi kay naay gi mention nga saints pwedi bisan kinsa nga tawo atung himuon nga Saints?
And by the way, i dont know which version your are quoting but for Int version it says ELDERS. It may be Abraham and Moses - they are Gods choosen ones Not mankinds choosen ones.

what do you suppose the Saints would be doing once they're in heaven?

you just mentioned that "Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live."

I dont think its the end of time yet, and you cant present a verse that when those so called saint were directly Judged or sent to heaven after they died so i believe they are Not there yet.

Naa nuon sa Bibliya nga ig balik sa Dios Hukman tah TANAN Buhi ug Patay apil na ang so called saints.

So my questions to you is:
1. Unsay nakalahi ug mu diretso ka sa Dios or Kristo ig ampo instead of the Saints?
2. Unsay advantage if muaagi kag Saints? naa kay verse?
3. Jesus teach us to pray our father, is it Not enough?

Lastly, if we truly believe that God is ALL merciful..
purgatory just fits for those who denied Jesus or God in this Life but repents soon after they knew He was real
for me, it even illustrates the perfect mercy of God.

This will be another topic nsad kay medyo taas sad ni

[CocoCrunch]

brother of my grandmom (father side) was a monsignor and my father's step brother eventually became a priest.

magsige tog misa sa balay akong monsignor na lolo and mga 10 rami sa balay motambong. dili pa kaayo to popular si calungsod pero nagpabuhat jd siya og pond and statue sa danao kato college pako. gitagalan ra to siya sa doctors og 2yrs pero naabot jud og 20+yrs before siya namatay. if naay momention sa name ni calungsod siya jud ako pirme maremember. happy siguro kaayo to siya na nasaint njud si pedro

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

@ SIODENZ ....

Unsay na CHRISTIAN DENOMINATION ka ni belong ?

[defender_1611]

@noy: bay noy healthy discussion lang gihapon ta same atong usa ka thread....

Bay noy akong e compare ang Roman Catholic Church Catechism ug ang Bible (KJB) kay conflict man kaayo ang teaching sa catholic church ug ang bible.

RCC Catechism	Bible
Jesus is not enough to purify sins "All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven." (Pg. 291, #1030)	Jesus purifies from ALL sin Jesus is Enough and His one-time sacrifice alone saves us to an eternity with God. Jesus nailed our sins to the cross. He took care of business and left none of it undone. ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. -1 John 1:7 [Jesus] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross. -Colossians 2:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. - Hebrews 10:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins. - Colossians 1:14 After He had taken on the sins of this whole wicked world, He said these words just before He died, "It is finished." John 19:30 Everytime a person says, "I gotta go to purgatory to pay for the rest," he calls Jesus a liar. Out of a love that cannot be comprehended, Jesus died for every sin, past, present and future. All we have to do is believe on Him. He said, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. -John 6:29 You cannot pay for your crimes (sins) against God for they are eternal in nature. THAT is why Jesus came. The Everlasting God shed His blood which eternally blots out your transgressions if you'll believe on Jesus Christ. But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. - Isaiah 64:6
Purgatory is an intermediate to heaven "The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect.." (Pg. 291, #1031) "The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent." (Pg. 291, #1031)	Heaven or hell (a) Nowhere in Scripture does it say one will have to undergo "purification" after death. There is no detour to heaven. "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement." -Heb. 9:27 No amount of purification is necessary in a fictitious place called purgatory. When one accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour, he gets the "free gift" of Salvation, and is immediately justified. Justified means to "declare free from blame." If you are a born again believer, your justification is by the BLOOD (not a limited time in purgatory). There is no punishment for sin in the afterlife. "Much more then, BEING NOW JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, we shall be saved from the wrath through him." -Rom. 5:9 "...by the righteousness of one [Jesus] THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto JUSTIFICATION of life." -Rom. 5:18 "Being JUSTIFIED FREELY by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" -Rom. 3:24 "And such were some of you: but ye are WASHED, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye are JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus.." -Cor. 6:11 (b) To insist that one must go through purification after death before one can get to heaven, is to say the sacrifice of Christ on the cross was insufficient. This would wipe out many passages in the New Testament which tells us of our stand before God now, and after death. God says if you believe on Him, you will not come into condemnation: "...He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE, and SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION; but is passed from death to life." -John 5:24 For a born again believer, to die is to gain and to be present with the Lord, not a limited time in purgatory: "For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." -Phil. 1:21 "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." -2 Cor. 5 (c) Should you worry about a place called "purgatory?" Can it be found in the Bible? No. The Church itself ADMITS that it is their own invention. The Council of Trent took place in 1545 and approved this superstitious belief along with many others. The decrees were made by the council of MEN, not the God of the Bible. And those who would refuse to believe the decrees of Rome were under the threat of "anathema," and the curse has not yet been lifted to this day while they cry for unity with Bible believing Christians.
Some people are being purified in purgatory right now "But at the present time some of his disciples are pilgrims on earth. Others have died and are being purified, while still others are in glory..." (Pg. 270, #954)	The dead are either in heaven or hell He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. - John 3:36 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. -Matthew 25:46

Naay pa koy daghang proof bay noy na ang teaching sa catholic church ug ang bible is conflict. so as of now kani lang sa akong ipakita nimo na conflict.

[defender_1611]

hirit lang sa ko gamay.. hehe, lage maoy ingon nila, watch out lang unya ta sa SRP kay basin monaog si Moses didto nya iyang duklon ang imahe ni San Pedro ato iyang gi bit2 nga 10 commandments hahaha.

OT: bugoya gyud bay Xian120....nagkatawa ko sa imong comments...ayaw bay kay mabukol niya si calungsod perti ra bang dagkua ug bug.ata atong Stone Tablet sa 10 commandments.

[defender_1611]

ok ra ko bai, hope all is well with you
answer to question A. is i do not know...its a complete mystery..
answer to question B.is again i do not know, how saints are being canonized.sorry bro, as this requires someone who posses the knowledge about the process. but what i do know is that the saints are canonized, first that person should have done something great in the name of sharing the goespel...that's why we see most of our saints are the ones who were martyrd...like pedro calungsod..and there should be a miracle in the petition through the said saint..wa ko kahibaw ug unsay milagro ni calungsod ha...
(please do not confuse yourselves regarding miracles, it is Jesus alone who does the miracle,only through the intercession of the saint).
pero kung imu question bai is how would the catholic church know if a soul passes or is lifted prom purgatory
again, it is a complete mystery...i think no one knows about these things..not even the pope i guess.

answer for letter c: i think same with question b.

sorry bai if i am not really ,uch of a help.
about purgatory, YES it is not in the bible, Holy Trinity is not even found in the bible but the bible offers significant
verses about it...same with purgatory..
please check this link bai, i am not saying that this link offers the answers BUT insights...
no one holds the answers, only Jesus...the bible can even be misinterpreted.

Scripture Catholic - PURGATORY

aw sa ato bay noy bisan kinsang member sa RCC denomination ma Santo Papa man, Ma Cardinal, Ma Obispo, Ma Monsignor or Ma Pari even isa ani ani nila wala nakahibaw kung hantod kanus.a mahaw.as didto sa purgatory? so sa ato pa mag sigi lang tag pamisa hantod hantod ani?