The DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY. unsa inyong knowledge about God?

[NapoleonBlownapart]

messengers are mediators between God and man, they are like a bridge between God and man, hence the only way. They were sent by God, for they have seen and knew God, to help man remember and also see and know God. sila ra ang makatabang sa tao nga makakita sa Ginoo. and it is universally taught by Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna, John the Baptist, Moses ug daghan pa.

Can you prove that Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna, et al say "I am the way". Kay duda ko imo ra nang kaugalingong interpretasyon.

Jesus is not God, he is only God's messenger, a mediator between God and men.

Says you but the bible says otherwise. I'd rather believe in what the bible says. Also, the bible said He is THE mediator. The ONLY mediator. That makes your argument, that there are many mediators between God and man, shaky.

two-way communication? only humans pray to God, a God never pray to a God, di ba?

The correct way of saying it is the second person in the Godhead is praying/communicating/talking to the first person in the Godhead. The way you said it makes it look like there are two Gods. This is not what we Trinitarians believe. We firmly believe that there is one God.

Again, is it wrong or do you find it absurd for a son to talk to his father?

[KlaytoN]

There is not even an iota of evidence or verse in the New Testament that says Jesus of Nazareth is God.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

They're posted in the first page. If you want to challenge the interpretation then let us hear it.

[KlaytoN]

There are many verses in the NT that MAY SEEM to support Jesus as being God. But the NT writers fell short in referring Jesus as God. Therefore the evidence is weak. Because of this vagueness, comes confusion even among Christians hence the proliferation of different teachings regarding the Godhead. There are 3 main schools of thought:

1. The Doctrine of One True God - the oldest and the original concept shared by Judaism and Islam. There is only one God- The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

2. Holy Trinity- the concept was first mentioned by these supposed early church fathers Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr, but it was Tertullian who first clearly mentioned and defended the Trinity. Hence it was the originally the Roman Catholic and Orthodox church that promoted this concept and later adopted by the Protestants.

3. Oneness or Jesus Only Teaching- the belief that Jesus is the Creator, the Savior Son, and the Holy Spirit all rolled into one.. This is rather a newer concept made famous after the Pentecostal Movement in 1914 (Asuza Street Revival) wherein the whole Pentecostal-Evangelical world was split into Trinitarians and non trinitarians..

[noy]

*John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
*John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
*John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
*John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."
Note: In the Greek, "He" is not there.
*John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"
*John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
*John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
*Col. 2:9 - "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
*Phil. 2:5-8 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
*Heb. 1:8 - "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
Quoted from Psalm 45:6, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy Kingdom.

unfortunately no verse did Say that that Jesus Said that He was God
but by reading the verses posted above, do they IMPLY that He was not God?

Jesus is worshipped
*Matt. 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him."
*Matt. 2:11 - "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh."
*Matt. 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!"
*Matt. 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."
*John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."
*Heb. 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"

with Jesus as a moral teacher and knowing that He was not God
He would have stopped those people who worshipped Him

[Breakeven]

.....Owwws, naa diay lain anang answer dong sa 1+1+1=3? aw siguro kay sa imong panabot 1+1+1=1 man.

Simple raman gud na nga logic ang God sa Islam, mao dili mo kagets sa deeper logic sa Christian Trinity using 1x1x1 or 1^3=1 not 3. Dili baya sya libog part. hheheh.

Owwws, nice diay nang ingnon ka ug FOOLISH? Pag-sure diha oi! Why I should be threatened.....

Sallam Alaikum part Eid Mubarak diha.....
Let us consider your idea of Jesus Christ as mere prophet and Mohammed is greater than Him. Compare both lives and their teachings of the attributes of God....who is more perfect and righteous?

Sa imong paminaw, Mohammed is 50+ yrs old while Aisha (his youngest wife) is 6-9yrs old, at that minor age, angay kaha natong sundon? We'd like to hear how you justify it

[NapoleonBlownapart]

There are many verses in the NT that MAY SEEM to support Jesus as being God. But the NT writers fell short in referring Jesus as God. Therefore the evidence is weak. Because of this vagueness, comes confusion even among Christians hence the proliferation of different teachings regarding the Godhead. There are 3 main schools of thought:

1. The Doctrine of One True God - the oldest and the original concept shared by Judaism and Islam. There is only one God- The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

2. Holy Trinity- the concept was first mentioned by these supposed early church fathers Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr, but it was Tertullian who first clearly mentioned and defended the Trinity. Hence it was the originally the Roman Catholic and Orthodox church that promoted this concept and later adopted by the Protestants.

3. Oneness or Jesus Only Teaching- the belief that Jesus is the Creator, the Savior Son, and the Holy Spirit all rolled into one.. This is rather a newer concept made famous after the Pentecostal Movement in 1914 (Asuza Street Revival) wherein the whole Pentecostal-Evangelical world was split into Trinitarians and non trinitarians..

*Yawn*.. no meat.. You don't need to say someone's crazy if he does crazy things. It goes without saying.

Still I don't agree with you that NT writers fell short in referring Jesus as God because there are verses that show he was called God.

[JcBoY]

Simple raman gud na nga logic ang God sa Islam, mao dili mo kagets sa deeper logic sa Christian Trinity using 1x1x1=1 not 3. Dili baya sya libog part. hheheh.

Let me quote your first post...
What Does it Mean That God is a Trinity?
The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons--the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Stated differently, God is one in essence and three in person. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God.

Are you sure that you are right in resolving this TRINITY RIDDLE by using this Mathematical operation? You are just exposing your confusion by contradicting your own explanation in your post. How much you know about SIMPLE Mathematical Operation dodong?

I would like to share with you this detailed explanation of how flawed is your presentation in solving the TRINITY RIDDLE from http://defending-islam.com/default.htm:

Christian claim that Trinity is like saying “1 X 1 X 1 = 1”
By Defending-Islam.com Team

When confronted about the fact that their doctrine of Triune gods is in fact addition of different parts which will always give a result of three, many of the Christians respond by saying that it is not "1 + 1 +1 =3" but rather "1 X 1 X 1 = 1".

It is important to note that the Christian understands we are stating that he has claimed that God is divided into distinct parts, all of which have to be added in order to arrive at the whole. However, this Christian rebuttal is the height of sloppiness on their side. The Christian simply thought of some manner in which three number "1"’s could lead to a result of "1" and now presents it as "proof" of their doctrine. He did not think of what addition is in mathematics, nor what multiplication is in mathematics, nor what each of these operations means, nor why do they give the results they give.

As our response, we could mention that “1+ 1 - 1 = 1” and say that in this operation the number “1” also appears three times, so it should be a correct manner of describing the Trinity as per our opponent’s logic, with the obvious conclusion that one of the “persons” of the Trinity would be eliminated altogether. We could also say that “1 X 1 X 1 X 1 X 1 = 1”, so it is logically correct to imagine “God” in 5 persons. Or we could multiply 1 infinitely many times by itself and still get the number 1, so that would mean that the “God” who is supposed to be one can be infinitely many persons as per their logic. So the Christian logic in this case is not unique to “three persons in one Trinity”, but it can be easily expanded to include other operations other than multiplication, as well as use the number “1” as many times as one wishes and still attain the same result.

In any case, what our opponents fail to grasp is that multiplication is not even relevant in this case whatsoever, as multiplication is taking the multiplicand and scaling it by a factor determined by the multiplier. A subtle issue arises here which may not be noticed by many people: Even in this case, it is obviously known that both the multiplicand and the multiplier are indeed different entities, which combine to give some result. It just so happens that in the case of multiplication by one (the identity element), this second element gives a result which is the same as the multiplicand (the first element). But it does not change the fact that the multiplicand and the multiplier are separate and distinct elements, and that they are never treated as the same element when carrying out the multiplication- otherwise there is no operation to be carried out in the first place. This intrinsic fact inherent in all basic mathematical operations has to be kept in mind by all those who bring up this issue, so that they may realize that their example is invalid and has no merit.

So it is extremely obvious that when the Christian talks about three persons as one entity, then they are talking about composition and combination of parts to form a whole and they enter the realm of adding different parts so as to arrive at the whole. This is why it would be inappropriate for a Christian to say that “God” can exist without “The Father”, “The Son”, or “The Holy Ghost” all having existence as “persons” in the Trinity.

Now, if the Christian contends that these three are one in nature and essence (and that hence they are not parts at all), we respond by saying that the very fact that they can differentiate between these three persons and tell them apart means they are not one in nature and they are not one in essence. Otherwise the Christian could say that the Father is the same as the Son, or the Son is the same as the Father, or the Holy Ghost is the same as the Son, and so forth, a reasoning which is totally rejected in their religion.

To conclude, explaining Trinity by presenting the analogy of multiplying the number “1” by itself is utterly flawed and meaningless, as it exposes their brittle understanding of the matter at hand, as well as their denial that “three persons” will always carry with it the meaning of composition of parts into a whole.

Sallam Alaikum part Eid Mubarak diha.....
Let us consider your idea of Jesus Christ as mere prophet and Mohammed is greater than Him. Compare both lives and their teachings of the attributes of God....who is more perfect and righteous?

You don’t know what you are saying as you have no clear teachings about PROPHETHOOD, self-serving kon ako pay motubag anang pangutana let the non-Muslims answer your hungry and thirsty mind. WE Muslims believed all the prophets of God as it is enshrined in the Qur’an:

“Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the Prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.” Qur’an 2:136

“The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah His angels His books and His Apostles "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His Apostles." And they say: "We hear and we obey; (We seek) Thy forgiveness Our Lord and to Thee is the end of all journeys." Qur’an 2:285

Even the US Supreme Court commended Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) about his place in this world, you have to read this at…

The U.S. Supreme Court and Islam | Islamophobia Today eNewspaper
The United States Supreme Court honors Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, as a source of law and justice alongside Moses, Solomon, and Confucius. He is depicted in the Courtroom Frieze among the great law-givers of mankind.

What the non-Muslims say about Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)…
What Non-Muslims Say About Prophet Muhammad (Mohammed)

Sa imong paminaw, Mohammed is 50+ yrs old while Aisha (his youngest wife) is 6-9yrs old, at that minor age, angay kaha natong sundon? We'd like to hear how you justify it

Owwws, ga-balik2 na man lang tawon ka aning imong mga atake sa Islam dodong mora gyud ka'g plakang buak...do I need to repost my rebuttal? But I think ganahan ka kay sigi na man lang ka’g balik2, so here it is....

Did Prophet Muhammad marry a 9 year old? (Ayesha)| Part 1 | English - YouTube
Did Prophet Muhammad marry a 9 year old? (Ayesha)| Part 2 | English - YouTube

[KlaytoN]

*Yawn*.. no meat.. You don't need to say someone's crazy if he does crazy things. It goes without saying.

Still I don't agree with you that NT writers fell short in referring Jesus as God because there are verses that show he was called God.

Well.... Ok.

unfortunately no verse did Say that that Jesus Said that He was God
but by reading the verses posted above, do they IMPLY that He was not God?

It's so UNFORTUNATE, right? Mao na sya bai, the vagueness of things, the mysteries, therefore Protestants and Evangelicals should never condemn the Catholics regarding the vagueness and mystery of Transubstantiation during the Mass. Lisod na brad if you're not getting any clear answers and the line to the source is totally dead..

Jesus is worshipped
*Matt. 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him."
*Matt. 2:11 - "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh."
*Matt. 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!"
*Matt. 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."
*John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."
*Heb. 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"

with Jesus as a moral teacher and knowing that He was not God
He would have stopped those people who worshipped Him

They knelt down and worshipped Him because they believed he was the long awaited King and Savior as prophesied in Isaiah and other verses in OT. The story, along with the characters, still fell short of acknowledging and worshipping Jesus as GOD. Therefore, the act was done not because He was GOD, but because of His Kingship and being the Savior of God's Chosen People.

It's easy for us to forget that kings and rulers of the land during this time were being worshipped and knelt upon by their subjects.. You could see examples all over the OT and NT..

[_hizuka_]

May nlan nah kaysa mudawat ug Theory sa Scientists nya wa gani kahimu ug kaugalingon Study or experiment to Prove sa Gituhuan. Ambot ug Niabot bah sa Point nga gi analyze ang mga thoeries, basta scientist sakto nah na.

Hatag sah lagi diri ug imung kaugalingon Study or Experiment para maka ingun mi nga Dili ka Blind Follower sa Theory sa SCience/Scientists.

lol, kamo paningkamot og search for the truth bai, kay ang usa ka closeminded kung imong subuan iya ra nang iluha kapoy-kapoy ra...

mag-inum sa kog trinity, aw 3 in 1 na kape diay.............