If Operation Barbarossa wasn't launched, Would've Nazi Germany won WWII?

[balipseyev]

Stalin is already planning to attack Germany at that time, they relocated most of their industries east of the Ural Mountains just for this purpose... naunhan lang sila ni Hitler, ug bag-o pa sad sila nahuman ug gyera ang USSR sa Finland ato....

[balipseyev]

thanks to soviet snipers... they cant easily invade USSR because of its vast land area

It was the Russian Winter who always save Russia from certain Doom... Napoleon, Hitler, Charles XII of Sweden, only the Mongols survived the Russian Winter and sacked Moscow...

[Code Talker]

nice thread TS. It would have been likely that the Nazi's would have won considering that around that time hapit na nila na perfect ang jet engine as new propulsion system sa ila mga aircraft. The term dog fight would have meant a Nazi fighter plane punching holes on any enemy aircraft.

[bleedingboi]

nice thread TS. It would have been likely that the Nazi's would have won considering that around that time hapit na nila na perfect ang jet engine as new propulsion system sa ila mga aircraft. The term dog fight would have meant a Nazi fighter plane punching holes on any enemy aircraft.

Yes, they did had the V3 rocket systems, first of it's kind in the world. This could have been an advantage if the Germans allowed another 12 months or more until they attacked.

[bleedingboi]

It was the Russian Winter who always save Russia from certain Doom... Napoleon, Hitler, Charles XII of Sweden, only the Mongols survived the Russian Winter and sacked Moscow...

Agree. And boy did those Mongols suffered casualties too! The Russian winter is a beast.

[machinecult]

They lost because Hitler made the Russian invasion personal. Its also among the reasons some of his generals wanted him dead.

[bleedingboi]

They lost because Hitler made the Russian invasion personal. Its also among the reasons some of his generals wanted him dead.

Hitler was too confident that his war plans were invincible and He was too egotistical.

[machinecult]

thanks to soviet snipers... they cant easily invade USSR because of its vast land area

Much of that sniperism was propaganda spread by Soviet political commissars. The NKVD urged the deployment of snipers then created tales how skilled these soldiers were to spook the enemy and inspire their own soldiers. Lets just say the propaganda hit more targets than the snipers themselves and continues to do so even today.

Hitler was too confident that his war plans were invincible and He was too egotistical.

Now if the Japanese actually continued fighting in Eastern Russia. Instead they attacked Pearl Harbor and invited the Americans to join the war.

[rodsky]

There is an alternative to discussing about this--sometimes discussions will just revolve in circles. One good way is to simulate battles and see if your assumptions and alternate decision making will actually work. For specific battles, three computer based wargames have been enough for me to try out my own alternate strategies, and were very good in answering my questions:

a) Panzer General

b) Steel Panthers: World at War

c) Panzer Corps

-RODION

[æRLO]

^I did the scenario with HoI3 (Hearts of Iron 3), it comes out with varying outcomes.

I like the HoI franchise specifically because you can control the Philippines. I started the game at around 1938 and by 1942 the Philippines repelled the Japanese onslaught. By 1944 The Philippines was liberating Southeast Asia and several Chinese cities with the help of Americans, lol. The Philippines occupied the southern part of Japan and Tokyo by early 1945, the war in Europe was still raging so I sent several Filipino divisions through the Suez Canal to hit the underbelly of the Nazis (the Soviets and Germans, started their war later, in 1945). Unrealistic, but I enjoyed the game's detail into gameplay. It was funny thinking about Filipino regulars locked in battle with crack SS. And Filipino Armor entering cities like Belgrade, Milan and Vienna (or even other Asian cities for the matter).

(in this game the Allies invaded southern Italy in 1943 but failed to breakthrough, N.Africa saw the same major developments, the Allies landed in Normandy made it across the lowlands, only to be beaten back to France--and they came into stalemate afterwards. The Eastern front was strange because the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact only broke when the Filipinos landed in Greece--and it was the Soviets who broke it. I actually wanted to declare war on those land-grabbing ruskies.)